GWR Bristol - Oxford service

[Trainman40083]

Can the Bedford line be accessed from Bletchley HL platforms? I assumed so but couldn't find a track plan.

Open Train Times seems to suggest the route goes both to the flyover and to Bletchley station, but not to the north towards Milton Keynes.

 

[Topological]

Can the Bedford line be accessed from Bletchley HL platforms? I assumed so but couldn't find a track plan.

Yes. The route is ready for through EWR running to Bedford.

However, this may be drifting a bit away from an Oxford to Bristol service.

This view shows how the new line crosses over the WCML and then through Bletchley High Level. The line swinging right towards Bedford can be seen crossing the B4034 on a bridge just to the south of where the Marston Vale line crosses the B4034.

Note: This is an older image as it still has the original Bletchley flyover.

 

[zwk500]

I guess if Oxford gets 4 through platforms, it will ease things. Certainly two expected on the west side.

It will certainly help, although as others have said at the moment there is only plans for one extra. And it still doesn't really solve the problem of transferring delays between the GWML and WCML (unless it has a long dwell somewhere like Bicester), which is highly undesirable for passenger performance.

Can the Bedford line be accessed from Bletchley HL platforms? I assumed so but couldn't find a track plan.

Yes, Although from what I can see it will not be possible to signal trains between MK and Bedford to reverse in the high level platforms. That move would have to be done in platform 5 for all trains - the only suitable connection appears to be via the Bletchley Relief No. 2 line. Anyway, a service from Bristol would likely not be continuing past MK either north or east so it's all very academic given how academic the chances of a Bristol service continuing east of Oxford are.

 

[Horizon22]

Nothing much to add other than an observation that Bath is an extraordinary passenger magnet on Saturdays. I experienced it in the summer, when standing all the way from Reading, then seeing the train suddenly almost empty at Bath. Then earlier this month being astonished at what seemed like a whole platform's worth of passengers disembarking at Bath from an ex-Paddington train. No Christmas markets then, and it wasn't a rugby crowd.

It indicates that any service that connects anywhere to Bath on a Saturday is likely to pull in customers.

Oxford of course has a similar pull, especially from London daytrippers (inc. international tourists).

 

[Andyjs247]

Oxford of course has a similar pull, especially from London daytrippers (inc. international tourists).

I have used the Oxford-Bristol service a couple of times in that direction. First time was when the Bath Christmas Market was on - train was absolutely rammed from Swindon. Second time was 3 weeks ago. I'd say there was a similar number of people starting from Oxford on both trips and again quite a few more joining at Swindon but not rammed. It was maybe 25% loaded from Oxford. Given there's only been a couple of return trips on a Saturday since September I would imagine GWR would be quite pleased with initial loadings - if those two trips are representative. Train was late both times leaving Oxford due to delays to other services - not easy to fit an extra schedule through P4 in the opposite direction given how busy the through platforms at Oxford are.

 

[John R]

Hourly train could connect Bristol and Oxford from 2026

The service would run every day if approved, with stops at Bath Spa, Chippenham and Swindon.

www.bbc.co.uk

An hourly train service connecting Bristol to Oxford could start next year if proposals are approved by the government.
The service would run every day, with stops at Bath Spa, Chippenham and Swindon.
Travellers are currently required to change at Didcot Parkway between Oxford and Swindon.
Great Western Railway has been running a trial of the service since September, but with just two return trains running on Saturdays only.
The plans are being put forward by regional transport body England's Economic Heartland (EEH), whose members include Oxfordshire County Council.

Later on the article says that the service has the support of both GWR and Network Rail, so would seem to have a better chance of going ahead than many proposals we see. And given that it will connect with EWR for services to Milton Keynes and Bicester Village, it would be a logical time to start the service.

 

[zwk500]

Hourly train could connect Bristol and Oxford from 2026

The service would run every day if approved, with stops at Bath Spa, Chippenham and Swindon.

www.bbc.co.uk

An hourly train service connecting Bristol to Oxford could start next year if proposals are approved by the government.
The service would run every day, with stops at Bath Spa, Chippenham and Swindon.
Travellers are currently required to change at Didcot Parkway between Oxford and Swindon.
Great Western Railway has been running a trial of the service since September, but with just two return trains running on Saturdays only.
The plans are being put forward by regional transport body England's Economic Heartland (EEH), whose members include Oxfordshire County Council.

Later on the article says that the service has the support of both GWR and Network Rail, so would seem to have a better chance of going ahead than many proposals we see. And given that it will connect with EWR for services to Milton Keynes and Bicester Village, it would be a logical time to start the service.

Does this require Platform 5 at Oxford before it can go Hourly?

 

[lachlan]

I could see the Oxford connection being useful on occasion for day trips and longer journeys, especially once East West Rail is up and running. Though of more regular use will be the extra Swindon-Bristol train per hour. Especially if it continues into the evening when the Paddington-Temple Meads services go hourly.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Does this require Platform 5 at Oxford before it can go Hourly?

On paper, no, the paths can be accommodated within existing infrastructure. In practice operationally, not having platform 5 would increase the congestion at Oxford particularly during perturbation.

 

[cle]

This is great news, I hope it can come off. What stock would it be, for hourly?

Wondering about Oxford - where P5 would be very helpful for this - could this take up the stopper to Banbury and turn there? Or take up the mantle of the rumoured Oxford- Moor St service, and do that. You'd be adding Bath and Swindon to Birmingham services too, plus a few random other pairs. While XC are still not back to full service.

EWR is an option but the stock might not work (125) and involves a whole crossing at Oxford. It's also not 'stable' yet so nobody would want to mess with it. And that aligns better to the Cowley side at Oxford. Maybe the Hanborough turnback (and wires) idea is helpful here for Bristol, especially while Botley is all drama, no build.

 

[The Planner]

This is great news, I hope it can come off. What stock would it be, for hourly?

Wondering about Oxford - where P5 would be very helpful for this - could this take up the stopper to Banbury and turn there? Or take up the mantle of the rumoured Oxford- Moor St service, and do that. You'd be adding Bath and Swindon to Birmingham services too, plus a few random other pairs. While XC are still not back to full service.

EWR is an option but the stock might not work (125) and involves a whole crossing at Oxford. It's also not 'stable' yet so nobody would want to mess with it. And that aligns better to the Cowley side at Oxford. Maybe the Hanborough turnback (and wires) idea is helpful here for Bristol, especially while Botley is all drama, no build.

Oxford Moor St is years away and won't happen until both XCs go via Coventry.

 

[Falcon1200]

If the service simply became an extension of the hourly Oxford/Didcot (and occasionally Banbury) service no extra platform at Oxford, or paths between Oxford and Didcot, would be required. Not sure where the stock would come from, however....

 

[zwk500]

If the service simply became an extension of the hourly Oxford/Didcot (and occasionally Banbury) service no extra platform at Oxford, or paths between Oxford and Didcot, would be required. Not sure where the stock would come from, however....

Isn't that service a split of the Paddington-Didcot-Oxfords that currently terminate at Didcot, and would presumably be rejoined back together if/when Oxford is electrified.

 

[Falcon1200]

Isn't that service a split of the Paddington-Didcot-Oxfords that currently terminate at Didcot, and would presumably be rejoined back together if/when Oxford is electrified.

Indeed, but wires to Oxford still seem a long way off! And who knows, it might be considered better to keep the Paddington locals turning at Didcot and maintain the Oxford/ Bristol service.

 

[brad465]

I could see the Oxford connection being useful on occasion for day trips and longer journeys, especially once East West Rail is up and running. Though of more regular use will be the extra Swindon-Bristol train per hour. Especially if it continues into the evening when the Paddington-Temple Meads services go hourly.

Furthermore, if any new stations open along this route as well this service would be prime to serve it, to save having London services call on them. The prime 3 for reopening, if ever approved, would be any one or combo of Corsham, Royal Wootton Bassett, and/or Wantage.

 

[zwk500]

Furthermore, if any new stations open along this route as well this service would be prime to serve it, to save having London services call on them. The prime 3 for reopening, if ever approved, would be any one or combo of Corsham, Royal Wootton Bassett, and/or Wantage.

I would argue that this service is a pre-requisite for these stations to open, as it's the only viable way to serve them without incurring the costs of a full additional service.

 

[30907]

Indeed, but wires to Oxford still seem a long way off! And who knows, it might be considered better to keep the Paddington locals turning at Didcot and maintain the Oxford/ Bristol service.

Or, if/when the wires are there, an hourly Thames Valley-Oxford and hourly Bristol-Oxford(-Banbury?).

 

[brad465]

Indeed, but wires to Oxford still seem a long way off! And who knows, it might be considered better to keep the Paddington locals turning at Didcot and maintain the Oxford/ Bristol service.

There is still a shuttle from Didcot to Oxford done on a Turbo unit. I don't see how what you describe is a better use of paths than if the through stopper was reinstated. If anything the latter would be a better use, as a 387 would accelerate faster and one through service uses less platform space than two terminators.

 

[cle]

Agree, this service wouldn’t be ideal to call at the Radleys of this world.

Best to get the semi fast back to Oxford with the wires and remove the stopper.

 

[Andyjs247]

I would love to see a regular Bristol to Milton Keynes service (if it could be made to work between Bletchley and MK). MK would be a bigger draw than Banbury and would also provide connections and new journey opportunities via the WCML to eg Northampton, Manchester etc.

 

[cle]

I wonder if this could be a third EWR service which skipped Winslow, Parkway maybe - as it needs that faster stock west of Didcot. Not sure how the 196s would do time-wise.

Also 80x would help it feel like a premium longer service.

Not sure if MKC can handle 3tph

 

[Falcon1200]

Hopefully Oxford will eventually be electrified and the 387s run through, although as mentioned platform lengths would be a problem! But if the Oxford/Bristol service is ramped up, maybe even to hourly, pathing between Oxford and Didcot might be an issue. Which is why I suggested combining these with the Oxford/Didcot stoppers.

 

[swt_passenger]

Isn’t the fly in the ointment regarding connecting to the Didcot to Oxford service (apart from that should logically become an extension of the 387 service from Paddington), that the new Bristol to Oxford isn’t routed via the Didcot station platforms?

Are previous posters assuming a reversal at Didcot?

 

[JonathanH]

Not sure if MKC can handle 3tph

Or 80x, as they won't fit in the bay. 2tph terminating in platform 2 from London and 2tph terminating in the bay from Oxford doesn't leave a lot of capacity for anything else.

Note the rather awkward way the Hastings unit railtour has 16 minutes in platform 5 on Saturday 5 April because platform 2 isn't available for a layover of that duration - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...25-04-05/1345-1415?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[The Planner]

Not sure if MKC can handle 3tph

It can't

 

[brad465]

Hopefully Oxford will eventually be electrified and the 387s run through, although as mentioned platform lengths would be a problem! But if the Oxford/Bristol service is ramped up, maybe even to hourly, pathing between Oxford and Didcot might be an issue. Which is why I suggested combining these with the Oxford/Didcot stoppers.

What is the shortest platform length in carriage numbers between Didcot and Oxford? If the three intermediate stations can all handle at least 4 cars you could have an 8-car detach a unit at Didcot if needed and join again heading back to London. Failing that do 387s not have SDO? Not sure of the best answer to pathing in the current setup, but if electrification is completed then an EMU calling all stations between the two will be a better path use than a DMU doing the same.

 

[zwk500]

Isn’t the fly in the ointment regarding connecting to the Didcot to Oxford service (apart from that should logically become an extension of the 387 service from Paddington), that the new Bristol to Oxford isn’t routed via the Didcot station platforms?

Are previous posters assuming a reversal at Didcot?

I thought it does in one direction but not the other? Although reversing hourly with the terminating electric service will be fun given 5 doesn't connect to Swindon.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I thought it does in one direction but not the other? Although reversing hourly with the terminating electric service will be fun given 5 doesn't connect to Swindon.

None of the existing trial services call at Didcot.

 

[John R]

I would assume the service will be as now, ie IETs which avoid Didcot, using some of the sets released by the Class 175 deployment in the West of England.

 

[cle]

Or 80x, as they won't fit in the bay. 2tph terminating in platform 2 from London and 2tph terminating in the bay from Oxford doesn't leave a lot of capacity for anything else.

Note the rather awkward way the Hastings unit railtour has 16 minutes in platform 5 on Saturday 5 April because platform 2 isn't available for a layover of that duration - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...25-04-05/1345-1415?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

That is what I figured. Assuming the rest of the route could handle 3tph (which we think it can) - possibly one EWR service terminates at Bletchley instead (or becomes the Bedford one) - if a GWR service ran from Bristol to MKC.

Or that one gets to Northampton/Rugby maybe. Sounds tricky overall though. But then, so does terminating so many services at Oxford. If this goes ahead (and P5 won't exist yet) - it'll be 1tph Bristol and 2tph MKC which is incremental to today turning there. No Cowley news either.

Was there ever any more news (EWR consultation updates?) about the additional line between Bletchley and MKC - and another bay at MKC? And the curve, which i think was mentioned in the same doc - but I think the line is more important.