Derbyshire Wayfarer Changes afoot ( again )

[MadMarsupial]

It looks like some major changes are afoot with the Derbyshire Wayfarer.

Nothing on the Derbyshire CC website but lots on Social Media and a useful summary ( if correct ) on the First Bus South Yorks website. I won't post a link until changes are confirmed by Derbyshire CC


Looks like from Early March 2025

Most prices going up about 10% apart from the elderly concession which is going up about 30%

More restrictive re young people's concession - looks like under 16 only. Some student passes ( B line?) used to be accepted but look as if that is to end.

Elderly concession becomes a Senior Railcard Wayfarer and you need a Senior Railcard to buy one. Good news for those people lucky enough to be 60-65 as ENCTS is now not required.

Advise look at conditions carefully if travelling in March

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So £17.00 (was £16.00) for the Adult 'Derbyshire Wayfarer' and £11.35 (was £8.00) for the Senior version, respectively, with the increased prices effective from Sunday 2nd March 2025?

 

[40875704]

It looks like some major changes are afoot with the Derbyshire Wayfarer.

Nothing on the Derbyshire CC website but lots on Social Media and a useful summary ( if correct ) on the First Bus South Yorks website. I won't post a link until changes are confirmed by Derbyshire CC


Looks like from Early March 2025

Most prices going up about 10% apart from the elderly concession which is going up about 30%

More restrictive re young people's concession - looks like under 16 only. Some student passes ( B line?) used to be accepted but look as if that is to end.

Elderly concession becomes a Senior Railcard Wayfarer and you need a Senior Railcard to buy one. Good news for those people lucky enough to be 60-65 as ENCTS is now not required.

Advise look at conditions carefully if travelling in March

ENCTS is what exactly?

 

[cool110]

ENCTS is what exactly?

English National Concessionary Travel Scheme, the bus pass for those over state pension age or disabled.

 

[nwales58]

Reduction in price therefore for those of us with Welsh or Scottish concessionary travel cards. Curious but nice.

 

[TUC]

Reduction in price therefore for those of us with Welsh or Scottish concessionary travel cards. Curious but nice.

Not that there's many of those in Derbyshire...

 

[Llandudno]

Interesting to see that you have to present a Senior Railcard in order to buy a Senior Derbyshire Wayfarer, is this the only instance in the UK were you have to show a bus driver a railcard in order to buy a ticket?

 

[nwales58]

... is this the only instance in the UK were you have to show a bus driver a railcard in order to buy a ticket?

The new rail/bus TfW fares such as Caernarfon-Aberystwyth and Newtown-Aberystwyth-Carmarthen can be bought on a bus and have railcard discounts. Whether the bus ticket machines are set up to do this I don't know. Only matters to non-welsh railcard holders and even then 1bws + train fare may be cheaper.

 

[zero]

Interesting to see that you have to present a Senior Railcard in order to buy a Senior Derbyshire Wayfarer, is this the only instance in the UK were you have to show a bus driver a railcard in order to buy a ticket?

Is there any point buying the wayfarer if you won't use it on trains?

If so, it doesn't matter whether bus drivers check for a railcard as it should (could) be checked when you take a train.

 

[stra200]

Is there any point buying the wayfarer if you won't use it on trains?

I used to occasionally before the fare cap and bus only wayfarer because it was cheaper than the 4 bus combination I was using across various operators

 

[Deerfold]

Is there any point buying the wayfarer if you won't use it on trains?

If so, it doesn't matter whether bus drivers check for a railcard as it should (could) be checked when you take a train.

Until at that point someone complains that they didn't know they needed a Railcard.

 

[jrh2254]

So £17.00 (was £16.00) for the Adult 'Derbyshire Wayfarer' and £11.35 (was £8.00) for the Senior version, respectively, with the increased prices effective from Sunday 2nd March 2025?

Thanks for the info - I didn’t know ! Just been to get my £8 senior for this Saturday and was told from Sunday it’s £11.35 !
Apparently this is supposed to be a third off the full fare - I actually make it 37% but that’s no consolation !! My current discount is 50% ( £16 versus £8).
Also apparently you cant buy your Derbyshire wayfarer now for travel after 1st march at the old £8 rate ! I thought that might have been an option.
Will now have to do my calculations very carefully for train travel Derbyshire and just outside Derbyshire. Before it was a virtual no brainer - always buy the Derbyshire wayfarer- now it’s not as clear cut ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2025 ==

Until at that point someone complains that they didn't know they needed a Railcard.

Yes going to be even more confusing than the current system. Those with bus pass , but no railcard am sure will be allowed to purchase an £11.35 ticket on a bus - technically they shouldn’t be able too.
I know this as when the train ticket office has been closed I have gone to the bus stop outside and bought one to then immediately get off and go back onto the station platform !
The bus driver has been very helpful in stopping long enough to let me immediately get off the bus !
I could have caught the train and bought one from the train manager but that’s assuming I can find them and it’s hassle getting through the barriers at Derby without a ticket ( to buy a ticket ! ). I have done this at Derby on a few occasions and they are very accommodating , but I am a risk averse person and there could be a time when it proves more difficult than usual !

 

[MadMarsupial]

They have renamed the elderly concession the Derbyshire Wayfarer Ranger Senior Railcard ticket in an attempt to reinforce that you now need a Senior Railcard but no doubt there will still be a few issues.

The new scratchcard versions of the Derbyshire Wayfarer have been difficult to get since they were launched a few months ago. I managed to buy a couple at Matlock Library a couple of weeks ago. I suspect the price increases were planned weeks ago so they let stocks dwindle to stop people buying up at the old rate.

 

[jrh2254]

They have renamed the elderly concession the Derbyshire Wayfarer Ranger Senior Railcard ticket in an attempt to reinforce that you now need a Senior Railcard but no doubt there will still be a few issues.

The new scratchcard versions of the Derbyshire Wayfarer have been difficult to get since they were launched a few months ago. I managed to buy a couple at Matlock Library a couple of weeks ago. I suspect the price increases were planned weeks ago so they let stocks dwindle to stop people buying up at the old rate.

Thanks for this information. I forgot you could get the scratch cards Must see if I can get a few before Saturday but they will be like gold dust !

 

[Andy Pacer]

Interesting to see that you have to present a Senior Railcard in order to buy a Senior Derbyshire Wayfarer, is this the only instance in the UK were you have to show a bus driver a railcard in order to buy a ticket?

Nothing against bus drivers (I am one) but I'd be very surprised if the majority knew what a railcard was never mind having to have one to buy a particular ticket.

 

[MadMarsupial]

Admin have asked that I supply a link but at the moment all official sites have not updated to include the changes in regulations from March 2nd so I am loathe to potentially mislead readers by linking to official ( Derbyshire County Council and GB Rail Rover Guide for example ) sites that are out of date and the only sources of he new regulations are on social media and are not consistent. However, the new prices seem clear " Adult Derbyshire Wayfarer to go up to £17, Child Derbyshire Wayfarer to change to £8.50, Senior Railcard Derbyshire Wayfarer to go up to £11.35 and Group Derbyshire Wayfarer to go up to £34"
These prices are confirmed on the First Bus website

Derbyshire Wayfarer

You can now buy Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets on our 80, 120K and 272 services! To ensure our passengers get the best experience across all our services, we will now be selling Derbyshire Wayfarer day tickets on board our services. You will be able to purchase both Bus and Ranger tickets for...

www.firstbus.co.uk

Please note that some of the existing prices on the First Bus website are incorrect but the prices as of March 2nd seem to be OK on their site.

This lunchtime I ventured into Glossop and bought two scratchcard Senior Railcards from the very helpful staff at the Library. Apparently they have had a series of emails from Derbyshire County Council about the eligibility for the "Elderly" concession over recent weeks. I don't have access to the emails so cannot post a link. However, the situation is very confusing e.g they have been told how to deal with someone who has bought a scratchcard under the present regulations ( i.e. ENCTS/Elderly bus pass ) who has been stopped on the train for not having a Senior Railcard which was not required when the scratchcard was bought.
The scatchcards are valid until Dec 2027

If in doubt ask at a station before you travel I suppose.

All seems very rushed.

 

[jrh2254]

Admin have asked that I supply a link but at the moment all official sites have not updated to include the changes in regulations from March 2nd so I am loathe to potentially mislead readers by linking to official ( Derbyshire County Council and GB Rail Rover Guide for example ) sites that are out of date and the only sources of he new regulations are on social media and are not consistent. However, the new prices seem clear " Adult Derbyshire Wayfarer to go up to £17, Child Derbyshire Wayfarer to change to £8.50, Senior Railcard Derbyshire Wayfarer to go up to £11.35 and Group Derbyshire Wayfarer to go up to £34"
These prices are confirmed on the First Bus website

Derbyshire Wayfarer

You can now buy Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets on our 80, 120K and 272 services! To ensure our passengers get the best experience across all our services, we will now be selling Derbyshire Wayfarer day tickets on board our services. You will be able to purchase both Bus and Ranger tickets for...

www.firstbus.co.uk

Please note that some of the existing prices on the First Bus website are incorrect but the prices as of March 2nd seem to be OK on their site.

This lunchtime I ventured into Glossop and bought two scratchcard Senior Railcards from the very helpful staff at the Library. Apparently they have had a series of emails from Derbyshire County Council about the eligibility for the "Elderly" concession over recent weeks. I don't have access to the emails so cannot post a link. However, the situation is very confusing e.g they have been told how to deal with someone who has bought a scratchcard under the present regulations ( i.e. ENCTS/Elderly bus pass ) who has been stopped on the train for not having a Senior Railcard which was not required when the scratchcard was bought.
The scatchcards are valid until Dec 2027

If in doubt ask at a station before you travel I suppose.

All seems very rushed.

Thanks for the update. I too managed to get some senior scratchcards and also noted that the staff are still receiving changes to guidance regarding the senior concession scratchcard. They said :
1. They have been told that a valid senior railcard OR 'gold card' is required. Gold card I think is specific to Derbyshire County Council and I expect this means anyone with a free bus pass with other authorities (English National Concessionary Travel Scheme) is also included.
2. You cant use the scratch cards on buses from 2nd March , only trains - I find this confusing but I rationalised it by thinking that those with an existing ENCTS would use this and those with a senior railcard would have to buy one at £11.35 ! Cant think that subtlety would be well understood!
3. That they think that Derbyshire County Council might make further changes as they were astounded by the increase from £8 to £11.35 (42%)!
4. They think there could be further changes! So a definitive set of rules may take some time to appear officially!
5. One other which I will take admin. advice on whether to post or not.

Will post my experience of using them from 2nd March !

 

[MadMarsupial]

Thanks for the update. I too managed to get some senior scratchcards and also noted that the staff are still receiving changes to guidance regarding the senior concession scratchcard. They said :
1. They have been told that a valid senior railcard OR 'gold card' is required. Gold card I think is specific to Derbyshire County Council and I expect this means anyone with a free bus pass with other authorities (English National Concessionary Travel Scheme) is also included.
2. You cant use the scratch cards on buses from 2nd March , only trains - I find this confusing but I rationalised it by thinking that those with an existing ENCTS would use this and those with a senior railcard would have to buy one at £11.35 ! Cant think that subtlety would be well understood!
3. That they think that Derbyshire County Council might make further changes as they were astounded by the increase from £8 to £11.35 (42%)!
4. They think there could be further changes! So a definitive set of rules may take some time to appear officially!
5. One other which I will take admin. advice on whether to post or not.

Will post my experience of using them from 2nd March !

I was also told about the "either ENCTS or Senior Railcard being accepted" but didn't post it because I thought it was very likely to be wrong. It might be that both will be accepted for a period of time because some people might have bought scratchcards under the old ENCTS regulation and some under the new Senior Railcard regulation and as the scratchcard is the same there is no way of rail staff knowing which is the case.
As a Derbyshire Goldcard holder I can confirm that is the ENCTS free bus pass you refer to in your post.
The new Senior Railcard Wayfarer discount is 33% which is the same as the standard Senior Railcard discount on the railway.
I hadn't heard of the "not for use on buses rule". This seems strange as a scratchcard Senior Wayfarer costing £11.35 would not be valid on a bus but a £11.30 Senior Railcard Wayfarer ticket bought on a bus ( see my First Bus link above ) would be.

I was thinking this is all very confused. I now think it is just a mess.

 

[jrh2254]

I was also told about the "either ENCTS or Senior Railcard being accepted" but didn't post it because I thought it was very likely to be wrong. It might be that both will be accepted for a period of time because some people might have bought scratchcards under the old ENCTS regulation and some under the new Senior Railcard regulation and as the scratchcard is the same there is no way of rail staff knowing which is the case.
As a Derbyshire Goldcard holder I can confirm that is the ENCTS free bus pass you refer to in your post.
The new Senior Railcard Wayfarer discount is 33% which is the same as the standard Senior Railcard discount on the railway.
I hadn't heard of the "not for use on buses rule". This seems strange as a scratchcard Senior Wayfarer costing £11.35 would not be valid on a bus but a £11.30 Senior Railcard Wayfarer ticket bought on a bus ( see my First Bus link above ) would be.

I was thinking this is all very confused. I now think it is just a mess.

Agree it’s a mess ! Hopefully we will
eventually see some clarity and consistency of application. Also a system that is fair and reasonable.
However I doubt it based on the current system rules / application and how the new system appears to being rolled out !

 

[Peakrider]

The Derbyshire CC website has been updated. Senior bus/rail Wayfarers are basically the same (just more expensive), available to a holder of any ENCTS pass and are now additionally available to Senior Railcard holders.
They’ve changed the scratch cards and there’s a link from the DCC site to Sheffields Travelmaster page which shows what they look like.

 

[Western Sunset]

From said webpage:
"Holders of Senior Railcards will be able to buy the Derbyshire Wayfarer Ranger Senior Railcard 1-day ticket onboard upon presentation of their railcard."

Just to clarify. Will holders of ENCTS cards also be able to buy a Derbyshire Wayfarer onboard the train? Would one get through the barriers, if there were any at a station, just by waving an ENCTS card?

 

[Peakrider]

From said webpage:
"Holders of Senior Railcards will be able to buy the Derbyshire Wayfarer Ranger Senior Railcard 1-day ticket onboard upon presentation of their railcard."

Just to clarify. Will holders of ENCTS cards also be able to buy a Derbyshire Wayfarer onboard the train? Would one get through the barriers, if there were any at a station, just by waving an ENCTS card?

I’m guessing that they mean onboard buses, because elsewhere they say that Wayfarers are not available to buy in trains and only from a limited list of rail stations. Eg you can’t buy one at Whaley Bridge station for example.

 

[jrh2254]

From said webpage:
"Holders of Senior Railcards will be able to buy the Derbyshire Wayfarer Ranger Senior Railcard 1-day ticket onboard upon presentation of their railcard."

Just to clarify. Will holders of ENCTS cards also be able to buy a Derbyshire Wayfarer onboard the train? Would one get through the barriers, if there were any at a station, just by waving an ENCTS card?

Presumably an
ENCTS card along with the concessionary Derbyshire wayfarer ticket.
However I have never encountered a person on the ticket barrier ever checking my railcard ! So don’t expect they will be interested in an ENCTS bus pass !
I would be more interested in what the train manager thinks of someone who presents a bus pass to buy a concessionary wayfarer ! I would very much doubt they would be interested in either a bus pass or a senior railcard and would just issue based on the perceived age of the traveller !
However what would the view be of the revenue inspector ?

 

[Peakrider]

That has always been the case and hasn’t changed.

 

[Llandudno]

Derbyshire Wayfarers cannot be bought onboard the train

…although I believe some train guards have sold them in the past!

 

[jrh2254]

I’m guessing that they mean onboard buses, because elsewhere they say that Wayfarers are not available to buy in trains and only from a limited list of rail stations. Eg you can’t buy one at Whaley Bridge station for example.

I’ve bought one on board a crosscountry train - eventually when the train manager found it on his ticket machine. It took a while - he said I could take a picture of the screen so I could show other train managers !
- will see if I can find it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Mar 2025 ==

Derbyshire Wayfarers cannot be bought onboard the train

…although I believe some train guards have sold them in the past!

I have bought but I they are called ‘ranger’ on the system

 

[WesternLancer]

An interesting thread here - because the Derbyshire Wayfarer ticket has been a very long running product that (assuming you know about it and I don't know how well known it is overall) has always seemed like good value to me.

meanwhile....

for the first time we have a mayor and devolved mayoral authority over Derbys and Notts so you would think enhancing and improving an exciting good product brand would be a good way of the mayor delivering her often made commitments to simplifying improve public transport connectivity and ticketing across the 2 county areas (and the 2 main cities within them) - but seemingly not....

A 'Derbys and Notts Wayfarer' product, backed up eventually by smart card tech perhaps?

Not the best example of her commitments that I can find briefly on line - there are others - but this is the sort of thing that gets churned out

£200 million coming to the East Midlands for Transport Funding - East Midlands Combined County Authority

Nearly £200 million is set to come to the East Midlands for transport across Derby, Derbyshire, Nottingham, and Nottinghamshire.

www.eastmidlands-cca.gov.uk

Mayor of the East Midlands, Claire Ward said: “I am delighted we have been given this additional funding to invest in our roads and local transport programmes across the region. This is more than filling potholes and getting people from A to B, it’s about transforming lives and communities, and it will give us a fantastic opportunity to connect people across the region and make it easier to access jobs, skills training, health appointments, and our incredible tourist attractions.

“We will work closely with key partners and councils to make sure every penny of this funding makes a difference. The ambition is to create the best possible transport system for the East Midlands and this funding will help us towards achieving this. We want to transform transport opportunities for all those who live, work and do business in our region, as well as those who come to visit our amazing places – creating a region where everyone has the chance to succeed.”

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Eg you can’t buy one at Whaley Bridge station for example.

Seems strange that, when you can buy them from New Mills Newtown (when open!) and also from Buxton. Whaley Bridge station is within the area of the ticket's validity, isn't it?

 

[Peakrider]

Seems strange that, when you can buy them from New Mills Newtown (when open!) and also from Buxton. Whaley Bridge station is within the area of the ticket's validity, isn't it?

Yes I used to live there and it was really annoying. Whaley station staff couldn’t explain it either. Occasionally I’d just stop a bus to buy one then catch the train.

 

[ChrisC]

An interesting thread here - because the Derbyshire Wayfarer ticket has been a very long running product that (assuming you know about it and I don't know how well known it is overall) has always seemed like good value to me.

meanwhile....

for the first time we have a mayor and devolved mayoral authority over Derbys and Notts so you would think enhancing and improving an exciting good product brand would be a good way of the mayor delivering her often made commitments to simplifying improve public transport connectivity and ticketing across the 2 county areas (and the 2 main cities within them) - but seemingly not....

A 'Derbys and Notts Wayfarer' product, backed up eventually by smart card tech perhaps?

Not the best example of her commitments that I can find briefly on line - there are others - but this is the sort of thing that gets churned out

£200 million coming to the East Midlands for Transport Funding - East Midlands Combined County Authority

Nearly £200 million is set to come to the East Midlands for transport across Derby, Derbyshire, Nottingham, and Nottinghamshire.

www.eastmidlands-cca.gov.uk

It has always been a case that the Derbyshire Wayfarer has not been valid over the border into Nottinghamshire. It’s valid into Sheffield in South Yorkshire, Burton upon Trent, Uttoxeter and Leek in Staffordshire, and even Macclesfield in Cheshire. Some of these locations are quite a few miles over the county border and yet locations in Nottinghamshire very close to the border have never been included. If it can be valid to Sheffield, Burton Upon Trent, Macclesfield etc, why not Mansfield?