London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[sheff1]

You can get a decent meal for a fiver in first on the MML. reaonable selection. Hot or cold.

Indeed you can. Not gourmet, obviously at the price, but most certainly a meal. http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/1st Class Menu March 2011 FINAL.pdf

So, having in recent times favoured Doncaster, I have decided to revert to the Sheffield route. I think EC have had long enough to sort things out but have failed to do so.

Despite assertions to the contrary I did not ask for free food - along with many others I was happy to pay when I wanted it, which was not every journey. Now, if we want a hot meal, we are told to get over ourselves - after all the food is free, what are we complaining about !

 

[Darandio]

In the grand scheme of this thread, that EMT menu is rather an eye opener, offering a Cheeseburger and Potato Wedges for £4.95. I cannot comment whether it is any good, it may be a dribbling mess for all I know but I also know its a damn sight better than a "tart" that doesn't show!

I appreciate what EC are trying to do, but this is simple, staple food that can be provided for low cost, and keep people happy. As the current offer stands, despite it only being a short timeframe, it doesn't look like working, whichever way you go about it.

However, I highly doubt EC will go back, it would prove they were wrong.

 

[jon0844]

It was said on here when it was part of the Eureka plan (Welcome hadn't been finalised) that they'd probably say 'you can't complain, it's free' which is valid - except you CAN get upset and not buy another ticket.

Free or not, people will want to at least have the ability to receive the freebies! I understand they can't discount the ticket price for those who don't want anything (or give a voucher for £0.00!) but if they can't offer the service, don't promise it!

 

[YorkshireRider]

EDIT: isnt it sandwiches at weekends too?

Yep, it is, the same fillings that have been served that week, and you get 4 because they are in a sealed pack, maybe thats an idea for in the week to guarentee 4 sandwiches.

 

[sidmouth]

Indeed you can. Not gourmet, obviously at the price, but most certainly a meal. http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/1st Class Menu March 2011 FINAL.pdf

Am amazed!! Maybe EC should bring in MML management and learn how it should be done in term of customer care and ergo maximising 1st class revenue.

 

[richa2002]

Having sampled the burger from the EMT menu, I can say that it really is excellent value and of decent quality.

 

[Blindtraveler]

and i've had a breakfast on a weekend which too is worth every penny

 

[Failed Unit]

Its been a while since ive worked a train that has run out of stock or customers havent been satisfied, and we always give 4 sandwiches, however i only work LEEDS-KX services and i guess that is where the difference lies. There is a huge difference in what someone wants on a 2hr 15min journey compared to a 4hr 30min, and even longer in some cases. It will never replace the restaurant car but at least people wont be going hungry. Part of the problem is the company assumed there would be only a 60% uptake on the offer, so if a train had average loads of 80 passengers in FC only 48 would take up the offer, but was that ever really likely, especially on longer journeys. It has im sure dawned on them now that this is simpley not the case, so wait and see what they do about it i guess.

You will never make MD now you have noticed that

That is the thing the Leeds route may be happy which is bad news for the Scotland one as the Leeds one makes more money. But the trouble with freebies is people take them, they should have assumed 100% on anglo-Scottish services and worked down, but that would explain why you only get 2 sandwiches in the week. On a journey that length you are likely to be hungry at some point so where else can you get food? Oh the cafe bar, unless you break your journey on route. Smash and grab at costa's while you change trains.

Yew - just written to Newcastle, not to Ms Boswell direct (yet) but no response (yet).

I once had a similar problem with Virgin after they started pendo-prime. Boarding at Warrington on the ex 1546 service out of Euston the food never arrived at Preston. I got over myself and went to the shop to some very embarrassed staff, wrote to Virgin and they refunded the difference in my ticket price between a standard open return and the first open return. On the 1600 the crew leader had a tough day because of moaning hungry passengers, so although was professional you could tell he was sick of it. (probably because that was week 2 and he had had it on every train he had worked on for 2 weeks) The person at the cafe bar was surprised some had made the trip. But no-one on the train was that bothered customers were hungry.

I didn't use east coast last week, nor will I in first until at least September (see if things have improved) but staff morale is dropping on Edinburgh - London services, they are getting sick of comments like 70 mins between wine re-fills is not good enough or is that it?

 

[furgus2]

I travelled on East Coast on Friday for the first time since the changes on day one of an ALR.I was on the 14:29 from York to Kings Cross. Overall, I thought the service compared well with Virgin for a journey of that duration. Tea and coffee service before departure, drinks and sandwiches served within minutes. Admittedly, no hot food offered and, initially only 2 sandwiches. One man asked for more sandwiches and was told he could have them when the trolley was returning to its base. When the trolley was returning I also asked for 2 more and was given them but was told that there would be another service after Newark. Indeed, soon after leaving Newark there was another service of hot and cold drinks plus sandwiches so, i ended up having a total of 6!
For a two hour daytime train, I felt what I received was about right for the journey. However, if I was planning a journey between London and Scotland I would still choose Virgin any weekday as there is always a hot food offer on each service at some point in the journey without the need for a chef on board except for breakfast. Indeed, I went up to Glasgow from Euston Friday evening and had a tasty meal of meatballs and salad followed by cheese and biscuits even though I was tempted by the strawberries and cream.
i am going to complain to East Coast about the total pointlessness of having a Quiet Coach in 1st unless the staff are actually going to enforce the rule. I always use the Quiet Coach on Virgin and FGW and the vast majority of passengers respect that and staff will tell those using phones not to. I accept that it's new in 1st on EC but that means that people need to be made more aware of that by announcements, better signage AND staff just quietly having a word with those ignoring or not aware of the new rule. As it was, there was just call after call taking place throughout the journey.

 

[amcluesent]

>...AND staff just quietly having a word with those ignoring or not aware of the new rule<

But IS the rule no calls in K? They just announce "switch electronic devices to silent" which says to me you should have the phone on vibrate but make calls.

Anyhow, I'll certainly keep sitting in K to get first dibs on the complementaries and keep using my mp3 player.

As has been pointed out, by far the greatest hullabaloo is from the staff!

 

[maddeningcrowds]

Not gourmet, obviously at the price

I don't think the average first class customer wants gourmet. Instead they want predictable access to consistent services so they can make good use of travelling time.

I think this is what has gone wrong with EC. It is bound up with ideas of privelege and exclusiveness which is really out of date. Customers in FC are no longer an exclusive type, particularly because of advance tickets and the financial model which underlies them. Poncy tarts are not right for the wide range of people that might be in First these days.

Here is EMT's "East Midlands’ Ploughmans" @ £4.95. I'm sure that 4.95 doesn't cover the cost, the cost is subsidised by the ticket price. But charging for it has the effect of preventing people asking for the sake of it, just because it is free.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

That looks good for under a fiver!

 

[All Line Rover]

I went for the "cheese nachos" and, to be quite honest, wasn't impressed! It tasted like a microwaved dish.

The Ploughman's looks better. I'm sure the ingredients don't cost more than £5. I still prefer having the food included in the cost of the ticket, though. I think that it's one of the main incentives to upgrade - if you have to pay, why not travel Standard Class and buy a meal deal from Sainsbury's?

 

[WestCoast]

I think that it's one of the main incentives to upgrade - if you have to pay, why not travel Standard Class and buy a meal deal from Sainsbury's?

Then you may be surprised to learn that two of Europe's most respected and commended operators, Deutsche Bahn and SNCF offer no complimentary food on their respective high-speed ICE or TGV services in First Class, with only a few exceptions such as Thalys. The average journey time is considerably longer than any UK intercity operator.

They do, however, on selected services, offer an excellent sit-down restaurant car, both offering a high standard of food and service. This service is open to either class, although I believe priority is given to First Class ticket holders.

 

[All Line Rover]

Then you may be surprised to learn that two of Europe's most respected and commended operators, Deutsche Bahn and SNCF offer no complimentary food on their respective high-speed ICE or TGV services in First Class, with only a few exceptions such as Thalys. The average journey time is considerably longer than any UK intercity operator.

They do, however, on selected services, offer an excellent sit-down restaurant car, both offering a high standard of food and service. This service is open to either class, although I believe priority is given to First Class ticket holders.

That is surprising, although I have noticed that the difference between Standard Class and First Class ticket prices in France is narrower than in the UK. If First Class was considerably more expensive than Standard Class for a long journey where no complimentary food was provided, I'd had second thoughts about upgrading (unless the seating was significantly better).

 

[philjo]

Quick question - is the full breakfast served out of Kings cross on the 10:00 Kings Cross to Aberdeen service or is it the lighter one?
The shading on the EC timetable on the website uses the same colour for all morning trains so you can't tell what is served (unlike the virgin timetables which uses a different shading for their lighter breakfast service trains).

 

[All Line Rover]

The shading on the EC timetable on the website uses the same colour for all morning trains so you can't tell what is served (unlike the virgin timetables which uses a different shading for their lighter breakfast service trains).

No, unfortunately Virgin also uses the same shading for full breakfast/light breakfast services. (For Virgin, all services departing the origin station at 10am precisely have the light breakfast, until 10:59am.)

 

[YorkshireRider]

Quick question - is the full breakfast served out of Kings cross on the 10:00 Kings Cross to Aberdeen service or is it the lighter one?
The shading on the EC timetable on the website uses the same colour for all morning trains so you can't tell what is served (unlike the virgin timetables which uses a different shading for their lighter breakfast service trains).

No, im afraid no full breakfast, its the mid morning offer, moving on to the all day offer on depature from York.

 

[All Line Rover]

No, im afraid no full breakfast, its the mid morning offer, moving on to the all day offer on depature from York.

Pathetic! For such a long journey especially!

 

[philjo]

Thanks.

I'm sure that I had noticed that Virgin used a different coloured shading - maybe that was in a previous timetable rather than the current one.

 

[ainsworth74]

For future reference the full breakfast is served until around 09:30 and from then until about 11:00 it's the lighter breakfast. Personally I would serve the full breakfast until about 10ish maybe even 10:30 but that's just me!

 

[Mainliner]

You too, eh?
And I didn't even want any tea or coffee so had to go to the cafe and pay for a Pannino (again) and a glass of wine.

On a London - Edin service this week during the evening peak, a passenger in 1st asked for a second glass of wine after leaving Donny to be told 'no, but you can go to the bar to buy one. We won't be giving out any more till after York'.

Its not just the facts that are negative but the way they are explained - and that was the team leader's explanation! First Class Passengers have a lot more 'getting over themselves' to do if this nonsense is ever going to work!
We'll probably have to be gratefull that anything works at all (such as a reasonable percentage of toilets or un-chilled red wine).

Anyway, lets move on: can we look at some financial facts?
Staff now have to carry hot dishes through 3 coaches (to, say, 70 covers) rather than the previous arrangement of just one coach (to, say, 6 to 30 covers); so that's more stock, more walking with hot dishes, trolley modules and clean ups.
Previously, there would have been between £15 and £35 income per head (multiplied by that 6 to 30 covers).
Now, there is between £0 and £0 income per head (multiplied by that, say, 70 covers).

I don't have a calculator to hand right now. Could someone else please help me work out by what percentage the alledged losses have been reduced? Thanks.

But would it also be correct to factor in more seat sales in what was formerly the restaurant coach?

 

[StrollerEd]

they might get more seat sales while the £25 promotion is on, but if the opinion I and some others hold as (previously) regular customers of FC tickets then I suspect that seat sales will not justify extra seats nor result in extra revenue.

EC has made a big error.

 

[amcluesent]

>factor in more seat sales in what was formerly the restaurant coach<

Since 22May, I've not seen a chalk'n'cheese ("Sorry, cheese not loaded!") difference in sales. I've never been more that two-up around a table at commuter time PBO-KGX and often get a table to myself in K going northbound on services between 17:00 and 19:00.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

But would it also be correct to factor in more seat sales in what was formerly the restaurant coach?

I've hardly seen anyone in First who hasn't had a bay of 6 (4+2) to themselves since May 20th unless they were travelling together. The busiest I've travelled on would have been 80 pax over the 3 1st Class coaches. (Maybe I need to travel off-peak to see the 'increases' in numbers which have been reported).

 

[Failed Unit]

The 1700 is very busy, but then it always was. It will have picked up people that used to use the 1630 but don't want to arrive home starving.

 

[williamn]

I also noticed on a TGV trip recently that they ask people to take calls in the vestibules, and people do stick to this rule.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

For future reference the full breakfast is served until around 09:30 and from then until about 11:00 it's the lighter breakfast. Personally I would serve the full breakfast until about 10ish maybe even 10:30 but that's just me!

Sorry can't agree there.

Anyone getting on a train at say 10.29 should really have had their breakfast already.
IMO of course

 

[ainsworth74]

Sorry can't agree there.

Anyone getting on a train at say 10.29 should really have had their breakfast already.
IMO of course

Hence why I said "maybe 10:30" Though I seem to recall that pre-22nd May the at-seat dining service included a full English until 10:30. But generally I would tend to agree with you however that by that time most people will have had breakfast, but I stand by saying 10:00 would be a better time to switch from the full to lighter breakfast.

 

[Mainliner]

I've hardly seen anyone in First who hasn't had a bay of 6 (4+2) to themselves since May 20th unless they were travelling together. The busiest I've travelled on would have been 80 pax over the 3 1st Class coaches. (Maybe I need to travel off-peak to see the 'increases' in numbers which have been reported).

I agree, the way things are going, any increase seems unlikely, but I guess EC must have factored in some extra sales, on the basis that their strategy was to get more people to travel FC. Presumably they anticipated some success, otherwise the economics don't stack up - many more 'meals' (albeit of lower quality) served than before, plus free alcoholic drinks - if no more seats are sold, the only other method of covering costs must be fare increases?