It's not as good as it used to be but it's still a perfectly reasonable breakfast (assuming you mean the full engish I've not tried anything else).
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London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service
- Thread starter MidnightFlyer
- Start date
It's not as good as it used to be but it's still a perfectly reasonable breakfast (assuming you mean the full engish I've not tried anything else).
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How do you know?
All of your posts in the £25 offer thread suggested you had only heard about the new service?
All Line Rover
Established Member
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- 17 Feb 2011
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- 5,270
From what other people have said, from the menu, and from the pictures. It's the only decent part of the new offering!
Well yes, I could say the same despite never trying it. However, it could be rubbish and someone who is looking for an honest opinion might take yours as someone who has tried it.
I could too - despite the fact I haven't done EC FC in about 2 years. Until 3 weeks time that is!
Failed Unit
Established Member
I would agree with that.
That last sentence says it all. "In recent years".. East Coast have had a month, give it time.
All Line Rover
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True, but East Coast could simply do a direct copy of Virgin. No "we're learning" would be needed. Virgin are OK, so East Coast would be OK!
Which fails to realize that the way that EC used to do business on the ECML was radically different to the way that Virgin do business on the WCML. Even if EC just used a carbon copy of VT's offering there would always have been a significant period of 'learning' required for staff and suppliers along the route to get the hang of the new way of doing things. As others have said they've been trying this new method for a month so give them time to a) iron out the bugs and b) account for feedback (which I think they will once the dust has settled from the change over).
StrollerEd
Member
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- 27 May 2011
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- 180
I am generally quite at home with 'change' but I do not like 'new way of doing things' and I think EC have lost their USP by abandoning the dining car and ruining the peace and quiet in FC area.
Not done "all day" on Virgin yet, but 2 simple things could fix east coast here but could be rail gourmet issues.
1. Offer everything on the menu including 4 sandwiches.
2. Offer more (any) choice as a hot meal. Chilli, soup and a roll, stew, pasta based dishes may be possible, I don't know, as the kitchens may not be able to cope, I only do 40 at once when serving this kind of dish, and you need a big pot!
If the crew aren't offering 4 sandwiches then that's crew specific. As I have said time and time again if you ask there is no reason why you can't unless they have been short delivered.
Soup will never be available on this new offer, due to countless issues with safety. In example I had a gentleman the other day who thought it was acceptable to have his laptop power block and cable across the aisle, if he hadn't have pointed it out as I approached I would have tripped and most likely gotten myself a very serious injury. That + Soup is a disaster waiting to happen.
Soup was only permitted in the restaurant as it didn't have to be carried that far.
The menu's I'm sure actually state 'or' after a number of items and I'm sure it's Sandwich or Meal. And if you're still hungry the Cafe bar has additional items of food. Yes I know you're not happy you have to stand with people from Standard Class.
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Failed Unit
Established Member
Fair enough about the soup, it was a suggestion but it is not practical.
It is sandwiches or a hot meal, but as I have said countless times I have yet to go on a train which has the hot meal offered.
Likewise on my sole trip where afternoon tea was the option it was sandwiches and a scone on the menu, but because of shortages it was OR.
It is fine for you to insult your former customers by telling them to get over-themselves and queue at the cafe-bar, but even standard class has the option to buy sandwiches at thier seat. I have the right to say that when you had something previously and it is gone then it is a downgrade. People don't like asking for more as the get accused of greed, or get told you only used to get biscuits something have said you have done yourself on this very thread. So some members of staff also need to get over themselves, give what is on the menu without the passenger having to say 4 please as many don't know what they are entitled to!
Maybe if I try it again in a few months time they will have everything on the menu, and you can have sandwiches and a scone (as stated on the menu). But you must agree that all this money they are spending on advertising is wasted if things don't improve.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just to re-live that journey on the 1600.
Trolley arrived, question to me 1 sandwich or 2? Answer 2 please trolley goes. Trolley returns, asked member of staff nicely is that all they offer I thought scones were on the menu, answer they have all gone, they never loaded the hot option either so that is it, please write and complian. So I got over myself and went to the cafe-bar.
So far I have done 8 journeys with the all day option (all booked pre May 22nd). Not once have I had the offer of more than 2 sandwiches nor has a hot meal beign loaded. I guess I am very unlucky.
I will give credit to the breakfast and evening meals, niether as good as the previous offer but as east coast and thier staff take the view - what do you expect it is free afterall.
It is sandwiches or a hot meal, but as I have said countless times I have yet to go on a train which has the hot meal offered.
Likewise on my sole trip where afternoon tea was the option it was sandwiches and a scone on the menu, but because of shortages it was OR.
It is fine for you to insult your former customers by telling them to get over-themselves and queue at the cafe-bar, but even standard class has the option to buy sandwiches at thier seat. I have the right to say that when you had something previously and it is gone then it is a downgrade. People don't like asking for more as the get accused of greed, or get told you only used to get biscuits something have said you have done yourself on this very thread. So some members of staff also need to get over themselves, give what is on the menu without the passenger having to say 4 please as many don't know what they are entitled to!
Maybe if I try it again in a few months time they will have everything on the menu, and you can have sandwiches and a scone (as stated on the menu). But you must agree that all this money they are spending on advertising is wasted if things don't improve.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just to re-live that journey on the 1600.
Trolley arrived, question to me 1 sandwich or 2? Answer 2 please trolley goes. Trolley returns, asked member of staff nicely is that all they offer I thought scones were on the menu, answer they have all gone, they never loaded the hot option either so that is it, please write and complian. So I got over myself and went to the cafe-bar.
So far I have done 8 journeys with the all day option (all booked pre May 22nd). Not once have I had the offer of more than 2 sandwiches nor has a hot meal beign loaded. I guess I am very unlucky.
I will give credit to the breakfast and evening meals, niether as good as the previous offer but as east coast and thier staff take the view - what do you expect it is free afterall.
sidmouth
Member
If EC could just offer what's on the menu and remove the 70min rule I'd be happy, but EC have now failed me on three occasions and enough is enough. I have now given up.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
So EC have undertaken a risk assessment of the hazards of Soup? And Soup, after a few hundred years of preparation, serving and consumption is now an unconrolled risk and must be eliminated at source. Hmmmm
(PS Meanwhile, lovely fresh soup is still served on the charters and heritage railways - jolting over jointed track with old hard suspension stock!)
EC has merged First and Standard class catering to the extent that both shall use the cafe-bar counter to buy their food and drink, despite the 'complimentary offer'. Hmmmmm.
EC continually seeks to isolate its responsibilty to passengers for its catering service from its responsibilty sub-contracted to its primary catering suppler. So who is now responsible for enforcing supplier sub-contracts? The passenger? Hmmmm.
For how much longer will this nonsense carry on until all the on-board catering staff are deemed unprofitable and therefore redundant (and/or too much of a hazard)? Surely the farce can't carry on much longer as it is.
(PS Meanwhile, lovely fresh soup is still served on the charters and heritage railways - jolting over jointed track with old hard suspension stock!)
EC has merged First and Standard class catering to the extent that both shall use the cafe-bar counter to buy their food and drink, despite the 'complimentary offer'. Hmmmmm.
EC continually seeks to isolate its responsibilty to passengers for its catering service from its responsibilty sub-contracted to its primary catering suppler. So who is now responsible for enforcing supplier sub-contracts? The passenger? Hmmmm.
For how much longer will this nonsense carry on until all the on-board catering staff are deemed unprofitable and therefore redundant (and/or too much of a hazard)? Surely the farce can't carry on much longer as it is.
Eight trips and no hot food? I'd have given up sooner. All credit to you for keeping up and not getting refunds on the tickets you haven't yet used.
I have to assume others will have given up for a lot less, while some may have suffered even more. Either way, some of them will either be considering a drop to standard or seeking another operator.
I think the '25 reasons' idea is great, except EC is doing it when the service isn't working, and will those people who are buying the £25 tickets really decide 'this is great, I'll always go first class from now on'. Some, possibly. Most won't and will just treat themselves, so EC will not have gained as many new customers as the ones they lost.
What a disaster! If nothing else, the competition will be loving it - giving them opportunities to use all the bad stories and reviews as ammunition against EC.
I have to assume others will have given up for a lot less, while some may have suffered even more. Either way, some of them will either be considering a drop to standard or seeking another operator.
I think the '25 reasons' idea is great, except EC is doing it when the service isn't working, and will those people who are buying the £25 tickets really decide 'this is great, I'll always go first class from now on'. Some, possibly. Most won't and will just treat themselves, so EC will not have gained as many new customers as the ones they lost.
What a disaster! If nothing else, the competition will be loving it - giving them opportunities to use all the bad stories and reviews as ammunition against EC.
Failed Unit
Established Member
All my trips were booked before May 22nd so I was expecting more, I haven't booked since I know the reality, next east coast journey is in standard. May have a punt at the £25 offer as it is cheaper than most standards and at that price queuing at the cafe bar isn't that unacceptable.
I agree crazy time to do this offer, the service isn't good enough yet. The should have waited until they stop leaving angloscottish travellers hungry or it will be try once and never again! The promotion should really including tv advertising should have started September but hindsight is wonderful. Even the evening meals frequently have the appetisers left in London!
I agree crazy time to do this offer, the service isn't good enough yet. The should have waited until they stop leaving angloscottish travellers hungry or it will be try once and never again! The promotion should really including tv advertising should have started September but hindsight is wonderful. Even the evening meals frequently have the appetisers left in London!
Well if your traveling in the morning then I would say give it a go as the breakfast is still pretty reasonable but on an evening unless you're traveling on one of the trains offering the evening meal then I wouldn't bother. Though I should point out I've not tried the evening meal myself I'm going on what I've heard.
Quite shocking, I agree, however, the staff are getting some flak, but not here. All of the comments are directed at the service, its just the poor staff who are having to deliver something that seems either non-deliverable or for some reason, EC have no intention of fulfilling it properly. At the same time, no member of staff is compelled to answer here so the clever comments are not really needed.
From what I am reading, without trying the service myself, it seems the critiscism is completely justified. To do eight trips, on services that have an advertised complementary hot "meal" (used lightly) and not see or be offered one is downright proposterous, a complete farce from beginning to end. Then to be told to "get over it", marvellous!
Failed Unit
Established Member
I certainly feel sorry for the staff, but have named each train it had happened on in my compliant to east coast. I find it hard to believe it is down to the on train crew! But hey I am also amazed east coast are not asking for feedback on train, either by asking direct or leaving a form to fill out and return (or hand to train crew). It is really as if the company doesn't care.
Even the 0540 on the first day was 1 hour until the food arrived with ms holt on board. Although it was very well loaded and was the first day, breakfast is normally complete by berwick now.
Even the 0540 on the first day was 1 hour until the food arrived with ms holt on board. Although it was very well loaded and was the first day, breakfast is normally complete by berwick now.
If EC wants to score some PR brownie points they should accept the service isn't as they intended, no doubt blaming third parties (i.e. RG) and then issue vouchers to those who travel on the affected trains. Discounts usable against future EC travel.
Now, they COULD argue that the service is free and so there's no need to compensate people, but that's a PR disaster as people will get angry and stop using EC, drop to standard or just moan everywhere - from forums like this, to other forums, Facebook, Twitter, TV, the Daily Mail etc.
So, EC can get out of the mess by 'fessing up' and taking the problem seriously. And they need to do this sooner rather than later, as it has been just over a month and there's time to prevent major damage.
They can't believe that rival operators won't be making sure to tell people how bad things are on EC either.
I've paid £25 to upgrade on a weekend to get nothing more than tea with refills and some biscuits, but if I was upgrading to get a service I then didn't receive, I'd feel I had every right to moan and whinge. If it happened once, fair enough, but every time? If you can't provide the service you advertise, don't advertise it. No harm in just saying 'there's your seat, now sit in it and shut up' as that's all you'd expect and could choose in advance whether to do it or not.
What's more, when my parents paid for first class on FGW and couldn't get any food or drink on the whole 3+ hour trip because a till/machine didn't work and the lady couldn't serve any complimentary beverages as she had to still log it - FGW gave them a voucher for an open return on any FGW service in the next 12 months! My parents not only used that for another trip but have also used FGW many times since, always going first class (getting open tickets, but with the senior railcard discount). A real win for FGW, especially as they've told people about how good the company is since.
I don't think EC should give away that, but a £5 voucher for use at the cafe bar or against a future train ticket would be better than spending money encouraging more people to come on and be disappointed.
A company can make a mistake. I accept that. I can accept any person making a mistake, and if they deal with it professionally then it makes the original problem go away. Mistakes happen. EC is making a mistake and doesn't seem to be doing anything.
Now, they COULD argue that the service is free and so there's no need to compensate people, but that's a PR disaster as people will get angry and stop using EC, drop to standard or just moan everywhere - from forums like this, to other forums, Facebook, Twitter, TV, the Daily Mail etc.
So, EC can get out of the mess by 'fessing up' and taking the problem seriously. And they need to do this sooner rather than later, as it has been just over a month and there's time to prevent major damage.
They can't believe that rival operators won't be making sure to tell people how bad things are on EC either.
I've paid £25 to upgrade on a weekend to get nothing more than tea with refills and some biscuits, but if I was upgrading to get a service I then didn't receive, I'd feel I had every right to moan and whinge. If it happened once, fair enough, but every time? If you can't provide the service you advertise, don't advertise it. No harm in just saying 'there's your seat, now sit in it and shut up' as that's all you'd expect and could choose in advance whether to do it or not.
What's more, when my parents paid for first class on FGW and couldn't get any food or drink on the whole 3+ hour trip because a till/machine didn't work and the lady couldn't serve any complimentary beverages as she had to still log it - FGW gave them a voucher for an open return on any FGW service in the next 12 months! My parents not only used that for another trip but have also used FGW many times since, always going first class (getting open tickets, but with the senior railcard discount). A real win for FGW, especially as they've told people about how good the company is since.
I don't think EC should give away that, but a £5 voucher for use at the cafe bar or against a future train ticket would be better than spending money encouraging more people to come on and be disappointed.
A company can make a mistake. I accept that. I can accept any person making a mistake, and if they deal with it professionally then it makes the original problem go away. Mistakes happen. EC is making a mistake and doesn't seem to be doing anything.
YorkshireRider
Member
Its been a while since ive worked a train that has run out of stock or customers havent been satisfied, and we always give 4 sandwiches, however i only work LEEDS-KX services and i guess that is where the difference lies. There is a huge difference in what someone wants on a 2hr 15min journey compared to a 4hr 30min, and even longer in some cases. More importantly there is a big difference in first class passenger numbers in most cases. If they insist on sticking with these menus then it is a simple case of spending the money on more stock and just overfill the trains and take waste on the chin, brief crews that it must be 4 sandwiches and the offer must be offered twice in the journey to scotland customers (3 times if going north of Edinburgh). It will never replace the restaurant car but at least people wont be going hungry. Part of the problem is the company assumed there would be only a 60% uptake on the offer, so if a train had average loads of 80 passengers in FC only 48 would take up the offer, but was that ever really likely, especially on longer journeys. It has im sure dawned on them now that this is simpley not the case, so wait and see what they do about it i guess.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
You too, eh?
And I didn't even want any tea or coffee so had to go to the cafe and pay for a Pannino (again) and a glass of wine.
On a London - Edin service this week during the evening peak, a passenger in 1st asked for a second glass of wine after leaving Donny to be told 'no, but you can go to the bar to buy one. We won't be giving out any more till after York'.
Its not just the facts that are negative but the way they are explained - and that was the team leader's explanation! First Class Passengers have a lot more 'getting over themselves' to do if this nonsense is ever going to work!
We'll probably have to be gratefull that anything works at all (such as a reasonable percentage of toilets or un-chilled red wine).
Anyway, lets move on: can we look at some financial facts?
Staff now have to carry hot dishes through 3 coaches (to, say, 70 covers) rather than the previous arrangement of just one coach (to, say, 6 to 30 covers); so that's more stock, more walking with hot dishes, trolley modules and clean ups.
Previously, there would have been between £15 and £35 income per head (multiplied by that 6 to 30 covers).
Now, there is between £0 and £0 income per head (multiplied by that, say, 70 covers).
I don't have a calculator to hand right now. Could someone else please help me work out by what percentage the alledged losses have been reduced? Thanks.
amcluesent
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- 19 Dec 2010
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- 877
Elaine and her PowerPoint jockeys should grab some CCTV from FC and observe the reality of the still haphazard delivery.
No, this was in February so I only expected what I actually got. If I had been told I would get more, I would have expected it!
Sent from my Sony Ericsson Xperia arc via Tapatalk.
sidmouth
Member
That is key issue; advertising a service that is not consistently delivered and therefore cannot be relied upon.
The breakfast and dinner services seem okay, if tea and coffee is forthcomming (more than one journey) and mayse breakfast and sandwiches for longer distances.
howeber only sandwiches outside these times, and merely tea and buiscuits at weekends it pretty apalling really, this isnt the MML, it goes all the way to scotland.
With a bit of luck they wil lsee reduced first clas patronage, and then improve the service. Has anyone here complained about nthe offerables to head office?
EDIT: isnt it sandwiches at weekends too?
howeber only sandwiches outside these times, and merely tea and buiscuits at weekends it pretty apalling really, this isnt the MML, it goes all the way to scotland.
With a bit of luck they wil lsee reduced first clas patronage, and then improve the service. Has anyone here complained about nthe offerables to head office?
EDIT: isnt it sandwiches at weekends too?
If there are now sandwiches at the weekend, then the service is better than it was. But, I'd have every right to be disappointed if I got on the train and found there weren't any.
Has EC considered that if people thought they'd get food and drink on the train, they may not buy something before hand, and end up going hungry? I'd rather they didn't promise anything, then let me go to Upper Crust/M&S/Burger King or whatever before, or take a packed lunch.
Has EC considered that if people thought they'd get food and drink on the train, they may not buy something before hand, and end up going hungry? I'd rather they didn't promise anything, then let me go to Upper Crust/M&S/Burger King or whatever before, or take a packed lunch.
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maddeningcrowds
Member
- Joined
- 25 Feb 2009
- Messages
- 143
You can get a decent meal for a fiver in first on the MML. reaonable selection. Hot or cold.