thameslink intent to prosecute - travelling with invalid ticket

[winniethewooh]

I was travelling from Farringdon to Stevenage with a 16-25 travelcard. I got checked at Stevenage and they found my railcard had expired (it was like 20 days before) This was my first time travelling by train in almost 6 months bevause i started my first graduate job as a paralegal and it was a work day for a client visit, I genuinely didn't check my railcard date before travelling and I was anxious/preoccupied studying what I had to do on the visit because I wanted to be perfect. I believe the inspector told me I'd have to repurchase the ticket in full price which I did do and she then gave me a fine slip but I forgot about it by the end of the day because I was stressing over the client visit and the write up and casework I had to do was quite a lot and it was my first time doing it.

This was in October and I genuinely had forgotten about the entire incident. A few days ago I received a letter from Thameslink with intent to prosecute, they are taking me to the magistrates Court for travelling with invalid ticket and there is space on the back of the letter for me to write my version of events and its up to the courts discretion to prosecute me it with either a fine of £1,000, having a criminal record, serving a prison sentence.

I would really be grateful for any advice on how to respond to the letter, Is it possible to have an out of court settlement? I'd rather pay the fine than anything else and would have paid the initial fine slip they gave me if I had remembered. You may think how stupid I must be to have forgotten but I had a lot going on at the time. Could I really get a criminal record or prison sentence? I've never been taken to court for anything before, ive never been in trouble with the law for anything at all, the letter makes me feel like I'm a sinful criminal like I feel disgusted with myself.

 

[Titfield]

Please can you upload all paperwork received with your personal details and reference numbers obscured?

 

[winniethewooh]

Please can you upload all paperwork received with your personal details and reference numbers obscured?

 

[RailsNetwork]

Sounds like the inspector gave you a penalty fare or a ticket irregularity report. If you still have a copy of this, could be worth uploading it obscuring any personal details & reference numbers.

GTR are one of the more pragmatic companies when it comes to prosecutions, and oftentimes do offer out of court settlements. In your response, you should mention:
- That you're sorry for what happened
- How you've learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle outside of court by paying any existing fares & administrative fees

You can expect to pay the fare avoided at the anytime single rate (£19.40), plus administration fees of approx. £150.

 

[30907]

We're you given any paperwork at the time, and if so what did it say?

 

[Titfield]

A penalty fare was not issued.

However the advice by @RailsNetwork in post#4 is correct.

You may wish to search this forum for the more detailed advice given by @Hadders in writing this type of response.

There are many examples of draft responses posted which have been improved using various forum members advice.(use the search facility top right).

Do not use AI (as it sounds insincere) and make sure you use British English spelling.

Once you have devised your reply please post here so it can be checked by forum members before you send it,

BTW the letters written by rail companies are deliberately harsh to impress upon the recipient of the seriousness of the matter (which it is) and so that the recipient can be in no doubt as to the maximum consequences of failing to respond.

 

[winniethewooh]

A penalty fare was not issued.

However the advice by @RailsNetwork in post#4 is correct.

You may wish to search this forum for the more detailed advice given by @Hadders in writing this type of response.

There are many examples of draft responses posted which have been improved using various forum members advice.(use the search facility top right).

Do not use AI (as it sounds insincere) and make sure you use British English spelling.

Once you have devised your reply please post here so it can be checked by forum members before you send it,

BTW the letters written by rail companies are deliberately harsh to impress upon the recipient of the seriousness of the matter (which it is) and so that the recipient can be in no doubt as to the maximum consequences of failing to respond.

thank you very much for this, I will draft my response and put it on this thread as soon as I can.

are you sure a fare was not issued? I do remember it was a black and yellow fare slip i was given by the inspector but have completely no idea where this is now and obviously forgot about it at the time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2025 ==

Sounds like the inspector gave you a penalty fare or a ticket irregularity report. If you still have a copy of this, could be worth uploading it obscuring any personal details & reference numbers.

GTR are one of the more pragmatic companies when it comes to prosecutions, and oftentimes do offer out of court settlements. In your response, you should mention:
- That you're sorry for what happened
- How you've learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle outside of court by paying any existing fares & administrative fees

You can expect to pay the fare avoided at the anytime single rate (£19.40), plus administration fees of approx. £150.

thank you for this! unfortunately I think I have completely misplaced what the inspector handed me and I don't believe I even looked at it as I was in a rush, it was black and yellow though like a parking ticket

 

[Titfield]

A penalty fare notice would have a penalty of £100 plus the fare you should have paid on the slip. A penalty fare when paid concludes the matter.

If you hadnt paid this then they would have chased this up specifically rather than sending you the letter which simply says your details were taken.

 

[WesternLancer]

thank you very much for this, I will draft my response and put it on this thread as soon as I can.

are you sure a fare was not issued? I do remember it was a black and yellow fare slip i was given by the inspector but have completely no idea where this is now and obviously forgot about it at the time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2025 ==


thank you for this! unfortunately I think I have completely misplaced what the inspector handed me and I don't believe I even looked at it as I was in a rush, it was black and yellow though like a parking ticket

Both things come on black and orange paper as that’s the paper in their hand held devices. Not that you need to look but plenty of examples of both Penalty Fare notices and Ticket Irregularity Teports on that type of paper on this forum.

 

[winniethewooh]

Hello everyone, I have drafted a response below and would greatly appreciate feedback. Thank you so much for your help so far.

I want to sincerely apologise for failing to produce a valid ticket entitling travel on the 15th October 2024. I fully accept that I had purchased a ticket using the 16-25 railcard discount and was unable to present an active railcard in support of my ticket at inspection upon entering the station at Stevenage.

Unfortunately, I had not thought to check that my railcard had expired on the 19th September 2024 before travelling for work which was a mindless mistake that I deeply regret. I was told to repurchase a full price ticket by the inspector which i proceeded to do. I had not travelled by train very often in the months proceeding and had been quite overwhelmed by the start of my new job and did not think through the purchasing of my ticket.

However, I realise that my action does a disservice to GTR and other passengers. I have learnt from my mistake and can assure you I will never repeat it. I have since renewed my 16-25 railcard and will always make sure to double check the expiry date as I understand the seriousness of travelling without it.

I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter in an out of court settlement and will fully cooperate with any costs including the full ticket price and administrative costs that GTR deems appropriate.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jan 2025 ==

A penalty fare notice would have a penalty of £100 plus the fare you should have paid on the slip. A penalty fare when paid concludes the matter.

If you hadnt paid this then they would have chased this up specifically rather than sending you the letter which simply says your details were taken.

I see, thank you so much. I didn't even look at what they handed me so this entire time I thought i was being prosecuted for failing to pay the fine

 

[furlong]

Very important that you cover the purchase of the correct ticket in detail. Did you show it to the inspector after purchasing it? State this if so. Include a copy of it with your response.

Your last sentence is then wrong - why are you offering to pay them for the ticket again when you say you already did that at the time as instructed? You don't have to pay for your travel twice - unless you wish to!

Were you given a formal interview with a caution and written questions and answers?

You say this happened on "entering the station" in your letter. That's confusing. Replace it with something more precise. Do you mean this happened on the train just as it was arriving? Or on the platform? At the barriers before leaving (not entering) the station? (Or on exiting the lift?) Or was the journey the other way around?

(Ordinarily if you were instructed to buy the correct ticket at the time and show it to the inspector that should be deemed to have resolved the matter.)

 

[winniethewooh]

Very important that you cover the purchase of the correct ticket in detail. Did you show it to the inspector after purchasing it? State this if so. Include a copy of it with your response.

Your last sentence is then wrong - why are you offering to pay them for the ticket again when you say you already did that at the time as instructed? You don't have to pay for your travel twice - unless you wish to!

Were you given a formal interview with a caution and written questions and answers?

You say this happened on "entering the station" in your letter. That's confusing. Replace it with something more precise. Do you mean this happened on the train just as it was arriving? Or on the platform? At the barriers before leaving (not entering) the station? (Or on exiting the lift?) Or was the journey the other way around?

(Ordinarily if you were instructed to buy the correct ticket at the time and show it to the inspector that should be deemed to have resolved the matter.)

Oh yes it was at the barriers before leaving Stevenage station, so I had already been on the train - I completely overlooked this thank you.

The inspector instructed me i would have to buy the ticket again upon my return to the station, she did not ask me to show it to her, but it was a travelcard so would have been full price of the original ticket. should i reword my response to say exactly this?

It wasn't a formal interview I don't think she just took my details and asked me why I didn't have my railcard.

 

[Haywain]

The inspector instructed me i would have to buy the ticket again upon my return to the station, she did not ask me to show it to her, but it was a travelcard

Was it a Stevenage to London Travelcard?

 

[winniethewooh]

Was it a Stevenage to London Travelcard?

yes it was (upon return) which makes me realise it maybe wasn't the same price

 

[Haywain]

yes it was (upon return) which makes me realise it maybe wasn't the same price

So it wouldn’t have covered your journey TO Stevenage in any case.

 

[winniethewooh]

So it wouldn’t have covered your journey TO Stevenage in any case.

do you mean as in repurchasing the ticket wouldn't have covered the journey to Stevenage? i thought with a travelcaed you'd be able to go back to the station you came from, any station within the zones, anyway I feel I should I just not mention repurchasing the ticket to save confusion?

 

[Haywain]

do you mean as in repurchasing the ticket wouldn't have covered the journey to Stevenage? i thought with a travelcaed you'd be able to go back to the station you came from, any station within the zones, anyway I feel I should I just not mention repurchasing the ticket to save confusion?

A Travelcard from Stevenage to Zones 1-6 is valid for one journey from Stevenage to London and a later journey in the reverse direction. As you purchased it for your return journey it would not have been able to cover your journey to Stevenage. I agree that it is best not to mention a ticket that was purchased but not shown at the time.

 

[winniethewooh]

Very important that you cover the purchase of the correct ticket in detail. Did you show it to the inspector after purchasing it? State this if so. Include a copy of it with your response.

Your last sentence is then wrong - why are you offering to pay them for the ticket again when you say you already did that at the time as instructed? You don't have to pay for your travel twice - unless you wish to!

Were you given a formal interview with a caution and written questions and answers?

You say this happened on "entering the station" in your letter. That's confusing. Replace it with something more precise. Do you mean this happened on the train just as it was arriving? Or on the platform? At the barriers before leaving (not entering) the station? (Or on exiting the lift?) Or was the journey the other way around?

(Ordinarily if you were instructed to buy the correct ticket at the time and show it to the inspector that should be deemed to have resolved the matter.)

A Travelcard from Stevenage to Zones 1-6 is valid for one journey from Stevenage to London and a later journey in the reverse direction. As you purchased it for your return journey it would not have been able to cover your journey to Stevenage. I agree that it is best not to mention a ticket that was purchased but not shown at the time.

I have redrafted a little, are there any other changes you think I should make?

I want to sincerely apologise for failing to produce a valid ticket entitling travel on the 15th October 2024. I fully accept that I had purchased a ticket using the 16-25 railcard discount and was unable to present an active railcard in support of my ticket at inspection upon leaving the station barriers at Stevenage

Unfortunately, I had not thought to check that my railcard had expired on the 19th September 2024 before travelling for work which was a mindless mistake that I deeply regret. I had not travelled by train very often in the months proceeding and had been quite overwhelmed by the start of my new job and did not think through the purchasing of my ticket.

However, I realise that my action does a disservice to GTR and other passengers. I have learnt from my mistake and can assure you I will never repeat it. I have since renewed my 16-25 railcard and will always make sure to double check the expiry date as I understand the seriousness of travelling without it.

I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter in an out of court settlement and will fully cooperate with any costs including the full ticket price and administrative costs that GTR deems appropriate.

 

[furlong]

To confirm Haywain's point - buying that particular ticket means the fare for the original journey wasn't paid and remains outstanding, and you are saying you were merely instructed to buy a new, valid, ticket if returning by rail later which you did.

 

[winniethewooh]

To confirm Haywain's point - buying that particular ticket means the fare for the original journey wasn't paid and remains outstanding, and you are saying you were merely instructed to buy a new, valid, ticket if returning by rail later which you did.

do you think I should add this in or leave my statement as it is? is there anything else I should change?

 

[furlong]

While your original post suggested it might be important, the further clarification has shown it to be irrelevant.

 

[Haywain]

you are saying you were merely instructed to buy a new, valid, ticket if returning by rail later

I think "merely" is a word too many there.

 

[winniethewooh]

okay, is my re-drafted statement ok now?

 

[winniethewooh]

I have received a SJPN... does this mean they didn't accept my letter or didn't receive it?

 

[winniethewooh]

Hello,

I received an intention to prosecute letter on the 9th January 2025.

I responded to this letter in writing within the 14 days as advised and sent my response in post first class to the Prosecutions Department N1C 4AX.

I was guided by this forum's advice in my response which was:
I want to sincerely apologise for failing to produce a valid ticket entitling travel on the 15th October 2024. I fully accept that I had purchased a ticket using the 16-25 railcard discount and was unable to present an active railcard in support of my ticket at inspection upon leaving the station barriers at Stevenage

Unfortunately, I had not thought to check that my railcard had expired on the 19th September 2024 before travelling for work which was a mindless mistake that I deeply regret. I had not travelled by train very often in the months proceeding and had been quite overwhelmed by the start of my new job and did not think through the purchasing of my ticket.

However, I realise that my action does a disservice to GTR and other passengers. I have learnt from my mistake and can assure you I will never repeat it. I have since renewed my 16-25 railcard and will always make sure to double check the expiry date as I understand the seriousness of travelling without it.

I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter in an out of court settlement and will fully cooperate with any costs including the full ticket price and administrative costs that GTR deems appropriate.

However, on the 19th February 2025 I received a Single Justice Procedure Notice.... I was going to just plead guilty because I just want it to be over but I'm worried about having a conviction and having read other cases on this forum I wonder if I should try and see if GTR got my letter or do you think they didn't accept it?

I also note from the witness statement of the staff (attached) that I was advised to upload a valid railcard within 14 days...... I believe she did say this but I think I had such a long day at work I didn't realise... to think if I just didbthay i wouldn't be in this mess oh God... I didn't mention this in my letter because I obviously didn't even remember it happening, do you think that would have made a big difference?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I have received a SJPN... does this mean they didn't accept my letter or didn't receive it?

I don't think we can know. But there's no harm in assuming that your previous letter didn't get to them. So what you need to do promptly is
- find a copy of your previous letter
- write a covering letter, explaining that you sent your original letter, but as an SJPN has been issued, you don't know if it was received. In the circumstances, you wonder if the matter could be settled out of court.
- send both letters (in the same envelope!) to the railway. Use one of Royal Mail's signed for or tracked services (https://www.royalmail.com/sending/uk).

Hopefully the railway will get back to you promptly and you may be able to settle after all.

 

[winniethewooh]

I don't think we can know. But there's no harm in assuming that your previous letter didn't get to them. So what you need to do promptly is
- find a copy of your previous letter
- write a covering letter, explaining that you sent your original letter, but as an SJPN has been issued, you don't know if it was received. In the circumstances, you wonder if the matter could be settled out of court.
- send both letters (in the same envelope!) to the railway. Use one of Royal Mail's signed for or tracked services (https://www.royalmail.com/sending/uk).

Hopefully the railway will get back to you promptly and you may be able to settle after all.

Thank you, I will try. Ive checked the address again and it seems i can get to the prosections department quite quickly from my work, do you think I could hand deliver it?

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you, I will try. Ive checked the address again and it seems i can get to the prosections department quite quickly from my work, do you think I could hand deliver it?

Send it recorded or special delivery so there is a record of it having been received.

 

[dciuk]

Hello,

I received an intention to prosecute letter on the 9th January 2025.

I responded to this letter in writing within the 14 days as advised and sent my response in post first class to the Prosecutions Department N1C 4AX.

I was guided by this forum's advice in my response which was:
I want to sincerely apologise for failing to produce a valid ticket entitling travel on the 15th October 2024. I fully accept that I had purchased a ticket using the 16-25 railcard discount and was unable to present an active railcard in support of my ticket at inspection upon leaving the station barriers at Stevenage

Unfortunately, I had not thought to check that my railcard had expired on the 19th September 2024 before travelling for work which was a mindless mistake that I deeply regret. I had not travelled by train very often in the months proceeding and had been quite overwhelmed by the start of my new job and did not think through the purchasing of my ticket.

However, I realise that my action does a disservice to GTR and other passengers. I have learnt from my mistake and can assure you I will never repeat it. I have since renewed my 16-25 railcard and will always make sure to double check the expiry date as I understand the seriousness of travelling without it.

I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter in an out of court settlement and will fully cooperate with any costs including the full ticket price and administrative costs that GTR deems appropriate.

However, on the 19th February 2025 I received a Single Justice Procedure Notice.... I was going to just plead guilty because I just want it to be over but I'm worried about having a conviction and having read other cases on this forum I wonder if I should try and see if GTR got my letter or do you think they didn't accept it?

I also note from the witness statement of the staff (attached) that I was advised to upload a valid railcard within 14 days...... I believe she did say this but I think I had such a long day at work I didn't realise... to think if I just didbthay i wouldn't be in this mess oh God... I didn't mention this in my letter because I obviously didn't even remember it happening, do you think that would have made a big difference?

Is this the same incident as listed on the thread at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...secute-travelling-with-invalid-ticket.279957/ or is this something separate?

 

[Hadders]

Moderator Note - we had two threads discussing this case so I’ve merged them together to avoid confusion.