Northern Rail failure to produce a railcard help.

[lemoniepie]

In may last year, I bought a railcard on trip (and paid for it). Unknown to me, that railcard could only be issue after booking with Trip. I did not, and I was never issued the railcard. In January this year, I took a train from Oxford to Manchester. This was my first time travelling up north (there has been a few other trips to london and Gatwick). I was checked and failed to produce my railcard. Northern Rail has sent me this threatening letter. I dont mind paying a settlement amount at all, but the last thing I want is a conviction.

I have prepared a draft response below, and I was wondering if anyone could very kindly proofread it for me. Also, I wanted to ask whether this should be sent by post or email. Thank you very much!

"Dear Revenue Enforcement Delivery Manager,

Thank you for your letter on 17 February 2025, and giving me the opportunity to respond.
In mitigation, I would say that I have only recently moved to the UK, so I am unfamiliar with the things that led to this mistake occurring.

On 6 January 2025, I travelled from Oxford to Manchester. I had bought a 16-25 Railcard ticket. I thought I had purchased a railcard in May 2024 on Trip.com. I had already paid for the railcard then. However, unknown to me, for the railcard to be issued I had to book a ticket with Trip. I had not done so, and consequently I did not have a railcard in January 2025 despite honestly thinking that I had one.

I was stopped at Manchester station and asked to show my railcard. When stopped I did not understand the mistake that had been made. I genuinely believed that I had a railcard but could not find it. Later that day, I had realised my mistake and immediately bought a railcard.

I now understand this is a breach of your railway regulations and against the law. I take full responsibility for this mistake and I tender my unreserved apology for everything. I have purchased a railcard and will never make this mistake again. I am keen to ask if you would be prepared to settle this matter without the need for court action.

I would be grateful if you could allow me to pay any fare that I owe and any administrative expenses that my mistake has caused Northern Trains.

A lesson has been learnt and I will always ensure to check my ticket very well before boarding henceforth.

Thank you in advance for your sympathetic consideration and I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards"

 

[Bungle158]

I am prepared to be wrong, but my partner has a Trip railcard and uses it with or without tickets purchased there. Her current card is virtually identical to previous issues from 'railway' based sources in the past.

 

[pwharley]

I am prepared to be wrong, but my partner has a Trip railcard and uses it with or without tickets purchased there. Her current card is virtually identical to previous issues from 'railway' based sources in the past.

A Trip.com issued railcard can be used with any ticket retailer, but first needs to be activated after purchase - and this can only be done by buying a ticket through Trip.com.
Purchasing a child single, Edinburgh Waverley to Haymarket, would activate it (the ticket doesn't have to be used!).

I sympathise with the O.P., who obviously overlooked this requirement. Maybe they could get a refund for the unactivated railcard, as they mention purchasing another after the problem was identified?

 

[30907]

There is a very good chance that Northern will agree to settle out of court, as you may have gathered already.

However, you must be prepared for Northern to investigate your travel history and come back asking about your previous trips. If they do, you will need to cooperate - if not, the general consensus here is that you should not incriminate yourself.

BTW I am slightly puzzled that you didn't rectify the situation for the next few months by activating your existing railcard - I wonder if that might arouse (unjustified) suspicion?

 

[dciuk]

I am not sure how this railcard from Trip works, but if the OP was to now purchase a ticket (any ticket) on Trip to activate the railcard, would that railcard start from the purchase date of the railcard or the date it was activated? If the former, could the OP then use the forgotten railcard policy?

 

[lemoniepie]

There is a very good chance that Northern will agree to settle out of court, as you may have gathered already.

However, you must be prepared for Northern to investigate your travel history and come back asking about your previous trips. If they do, you will need to cooperate - if not, the general consensus here is that you should not incriminate yourself.

BTW I am slightly puzzled that you didn't rectify the situation for the next few months by activating your existing railcard - I wonder if that might arouse (unjustified) suspicion?

Thank you for this. If they choose to investigate my travel history does that include lines operated by other rail companies as well? This was the first time I’ve travelled with northern. Every other trip was with GWR or Chiltern.

As for the railcard I only realised that it was not issued properly in January. Would it be better to include additional explanation on that point?

Also can I ask if it would be better to reply by email or post (if there is a choice at all)?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for this. If they choose to investigate my travel history does that include lines operated by other rail companies as well? This was the first time I’ve travelled with northern. Every other trip was with GWR or Chiltern.

As for the railcard I only realised that it was not issued properly in January. Would it be better to include additional explanation on that point?

Also can I ask if it would be better to reply by email or post (if there is a choice at all)?

On your first point they will check purchasing from all ticket retailers potentially. There is no data protection restriction on this.

On your third point you should reply using whatever method they tell you to use in their letter, or both e mail and post. If it’s post send it tracked from a post office so you know it got there and can prove that if required.

 

[AlterEgo]

I am not sure how this railcard from Trip works, but if the OP was to now purchase a ticket (any ticket) on Trip to activate the railcard, would that railcard start from the purchase date of the railcard or the date it was activated? If the former, could the OP then use the forgotten railcard policy?

That’s an idea. The OP could buy a Lichfield City to Lichfield Trent Valley ticket for a pittance just to activate the railcard. But, I suspect it will be dated from today if they do that.

 

[lemoniepie]

Hello! I have previously been contacted by Northern Rail for not having a railcard

Unfortunately they have decided to “pursue the matter in court”. This can leave me with a criminal conviction which I really do not want. Is there anyway I can avoid this now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

I was thinking of sending a follow up email saying something along the lines of “I understand that this matter can be pursued in court with the current evidence. However, I would nonetheless like to settle this administratively if possible”

 

[dciuk]

Hello! I have previously been contacted by Northern Rail for not having a railcard

Unfortunately they have decided to “pursue the matter in court”. This can leave me with a criminal conviction which I really do not want. Is there anyway I can avoid this now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

I was thinking of sending a follow up email saying something along the lines of “I understand that this matter can be pursued in court with the current evidence. However, I would nonetheless like to settle this administratively if possible”

Have you tried purchasing a cheap ticket on trip as suggested by @AlterEgo (Litchfield City to Litchfield Trent Valley) to see if that activates the railcard and if it does does it backdate to when you purchased it. (An even cheaper ticket would be St Ives to Carbis Bay). Are you able to upload a copy of what you sent to Northern Rail (with identifying details redacted)? Northern will normally agree to settle out of court and other members will normally be able to help you with drafting a comunication to them requesting this.

 

[lemoniepie]

I can no longer activate my old rail card, booking has refunded me. The correspondence is at the top of this thread, sent by email and post simultaneously. I honestly don’t know why they insist on court action, and they haven’t told me if they want to prosecute on bye-laws railways act or just civil action.

I gathered that there was a good chance they’ll settle so honestly I’m quite lost now.


I was told by others calling directly may be a good idea so I was wondering if I can get some advice on that too.

 

[dciuk]

You might need to ask them again. Perhaps they missed your request when they read your previous letter. Wait and see if one of the experts on here comes back with any suggestions on how to word a 2nd attempt at requesting an out of court settlement from them.

 

[30907]

You might need to ask them again. Perhaps they missed your request when they read your previous letter. Wait and see if one of the experts on here comes back with any suggestions on how to word a 2nd attempt at requesting an out of court settlement from them.

I agree it is worth a second try.

Have a look at posts on here by forum member Hadders which might help you structure your reply more clearly.

 

[lemoniepie]

You might need to ask them again. Perhaps they missed your request when they read your previous letter. Wait and see if one of the experts on here comes back with any suggestions on how to word a 2nd attempt at requesting an out of court settlement from them.

Yeah I think I’ll definitely try contacting them again. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Also, is it a better idea to call or email?

 

[Hadders]

We've seen a few replies like this from Northern recently. I would send another letter, basically a rehashed version of your first email, asking if they will consider an out of court settlement.

Post a draft copy in this thread and forum members will proof read it for you.

 

[lemoniepie]

Thank you for the response! Below is a response I have drafted, would be very grateful if anyone could have a look at it for me.

In addition, I am currently considering engaging a solicitor. Would that be a good idea and is there any particular firms known for this area?

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to the matter with reference number ****

Thank you for your response.

Once again, I would like to unreservedly apologise for causing Northern Trains a loss in revenue and administrative costs.

Please be assured this was a genuine mistake on my part as I was unaware of Booking.com’s policy, and in no way was there any intention to avoid paying the correct fare for my travel.

I would be incredibly grateful if this matter could be settled out of court. I am willing to pay any difference in fare and any administrative cost incurred in this process.

Best Regards,
***

 

[WesternLancer]

Yeah I think I’ll definitely try contacting them again. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Also, is it a better idea to call or email?

Don’t call. My hunch is you’d not get through to someone with decision making ability. E mail and or letter.

 

[dciuk]

In addition, I am currently considering engaging a solicitor. Would that be a good idea and is there any particular firms known for this area?

I would hold off engaging a solicitor for now. I think there is still a good chance of gettiing an out of court settlement and the cost of a solicitor is likely to start around £500 to £1200 range. From other threads, the following firms have been mentioned as specialising in this area, however I do not have any personal experience of any of them
Makwana solicitors
Manak solicitors
Penman Sedgwick Solicitors

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Mar 2025 ==

I was unaware of Booking.com’s policy

In your previous letter you said trip.com. Are Booking.com and Trip.com sister sites (different brands under the same company) or is Booking.com in your current draft a typo?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I am not sure how this railcard from Trip works, but if the OP was to now purchase a ticket (any ticket) on Trip to activate the railcard, would that railcard start from the purchase date of the railcard or the date it was activated? If the former, could the OP then use the forgotten railcard policy?

The Trip.com Railcard will show a "Purchase Date and Time" and a "Valid From" date which matches when you buy a ticket from Trip and activate the Railcard, not when you actually give them the money and buy the railcard from them.

 

[SuspectUsual]

@lemoniepie the image in post #9 still has the reference number visible - you should edit it and cover it up

 

[Tramfan]

Don’t call. My hunch is you’d not get through to someone with decision making ability. E mail and or letter.

Also, for something like this, I'd probably want a written paper trail of the correspondence anyway

 

[lemoniepie]

In your previous letter you said trip.com. Are Booking.com and Trip.com sister sites (different brands under the same company) or is Booking.com in your current draft a typo?

Apologies, that is a typo. Thanks for pointing out!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Mar 2025 ==

I would hold off engaging a solicitor for now. I think there is still a good chance of gettiing an out of court settlement and the cost of a solicitor is likely to start around £500 to £1200 range. From other threads, the following firms have been mentioned as specialising in this area, however I do not have any personal experience of any of them
Makwana solicitors
Manak solicitors
Penman Sedgwick Solicitors

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Mar 2025 ==


In your previous letter you said trip.com. Are Booking.com and Trip.com sister sites (different brands under the same company) or is Booking.com in your current draft a typo?

Thanks for advice on engaging a solicitor. I’ll try to resolve this myself, but I’ll keep your suggestions in mind.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Mar 2025 ==

I’ve made some adjustments, could someone please help me proofread this? Thank you very much!!

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to the matter with reference number ****

Thank you for your response.

Once again, I would like to unreservedly apologise for causing Northern Trains a loss in revenue and administrative costs.

Please be assured this was a genuine mistake on my part as I was unaware of Trip.com’s policy, and in no way was there any intention to avoid paying the correct fare for my travel.

I would be incredibly grateful if this matter could be resolved administratively and settled out of court. I am willing to pay any difference in fare and any administrative cost incurred in this process.

Best Regards,
***

 

[WesternLancer]

Apologies, that is a typo. Thanks for pointing out!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Mar 2025 ==



Thanks for advice on engaging a solicitor. I’ll try to resolve this myself, but I’ll keep your suggestions in mind.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Mar 2025 ==

I’ve made some adjustments, could someone please help me proofread this? Thank you very much!!

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to the matter with reference number ****

Thank you for your response.

Once again, I would like to unreservedly apologise for causing Northern Trains a loss in revenue and administrative costs.

Please be assured this was a genuine mistake on my part as I was unaware of Trip.com’s policy, and in no way was there any intention to avoid paying the correct fare for my travel.

I would be incredibly grateful if this matter could be resolved administratively and settled out of court. I am willing to pay any difference in fare and any administrative cost incurred in this process.

Best Regards,
***

Looks good to me. You need to endure you know they receive it.

 

[Hadders]

I think you should add a but more detail to this.

I'd mention that you purchased a railcard from Trip.com using a promotional offer but did not realise that this offer required a ticket to be purchased before the railcard purchase would complete. Consider referring to what happened as an administratove oversight on your part.

Offer to pay the outstanding fare not just the difference.

 

[lemoniepie]

I think you should add a but more detail to this.

I'd mention that you purchased a railcard from Trip.com using a promotional offer but did not realise that this offer required a ticket to be purchased before the railcard purchase would complete. Consider referring to what happened as an administratove oversight on your part.

Offer to pay the outstanding fare not just the difference.

Thanks for the input! I’ve made the amendments below:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to the matter with reference number ****

Thank you for your response.

Once again, I would like to unreservedly apologise for causing Northern Trains a loss in revenue and administrative costs.

Please be assured this was a genuine administrative oversight on my part and in no way was there any intention to avoid paying the correct fare for my travel. I had purchased a railcard using a promotional offer but did not realise that this offer required a ticket purchase from Trip.com to activate the railcard.

I would be incredibly grateful if this matter could be resolved administratively and settled out of court. I am willing to pay any outstanding fare and any administrative cost incurred in this process.

Best Regards,
***

 

[Hadders]

I think this is fine to send. Being pedantic it's Yours faithfully at the end not Best regards.

 

[lemoniepie]

I think this is fine to send. Being pedantic it's Yours faithfully at the end not Best regards.

Thanks! Additionally, I was wondering if a suitable subject line for the email could be “apology and request for administrative settlement”

 

[Hadders]

It really doesn't matter but I'd put the case reference number as the subject line.

 

[lemoniepie]

It really doesn't matter but I'd put the case reference number as the subject line.

thanks！

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2025 ==

I’ve emailed and sent the letter by post today. Was just wondering if anyone knew about similar cases where Northern has replied in this way, and how they got resolved?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Mar 2025 ==

thanks！

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2025 ==

I’ve emailed and sent the letter by post today. Was just wondering if anyone knew about similar cases where Northern has replied in this way, and how they got resolved?

Hello! I’ve emailed them and posted a letter a few days ago but haven’t gotten a reply from them. I didn’t even get the automated email reply I got last time I sent an email.

Should I call them (or email) to confirm they have received my letter?