Thoughts on the Trump presidency

[DarloRich]

At this point, I don't think any one thing is intended to be a distraction for another. It's a deliberate attempt to just rush through a huge list and stop any checks and balances, and confuse people - as well as make people get sick of the noise, so they just switch off entirely.

The whole thing is a distraction con.

 

[trainswitheddy]

I think the biggest thing to ask is how do you reach a Trump voter? I mentioned this before but there's such a collapse in discourse and a sewing of distrust in the media (not entirely unwarranted but concerning with regards to politics), how will you talk to someone about cold hard facts when they can so easily dismiss it at "Fake news" or "woke nonsense".

This is something the democrats seriously need to work on come 2026 mid terms if they want to stand a fighting chance. While there are many voters for Trump who idolise Russia and wish for further right policies there will be many who voted on the fact that under Trump they found it easier to put food on the table or heat the house.

I see a lot of chatter among democratic supporters about how those who voted Trump are getting what they deserve but did these people fight enough to gain the vote of those who voted Trump purely on economical merit?

 

[nlogax]

I think the biggest thing to ask is how do you reach a Trump voter? I mentioned this before but there's such a collapse in discourse and a sewing of distrust in the media (not entirely unwarranted but concerning with regards to politics), how will you talk to someone about cold hard facts when they can so easily dismiss it at "Fake news" or "woke nonsense".

Ultimately for the majority of cases the answer seems to be 'you don't'.

Many will learn their lessons the hard way over the course of the next couple of years and then only make their changes of opinion known at the voting booth. Same applies both sides of the political aisle, though I personally suspect Trump voters are far happier to voice public support for him no matter his faults and decisions purely in order to own the libs, or something.

 

[dgl]

I'm starting to think that we need to stop being diplomatic with Trump, we need to be talking to him like a boss or a strict parent would, he just simply does not understand how to be tactful so we should stop treating him with tact and decency. Maybe Macron needs to give him another handshake as I think that showed him who was the boss last time!

It would never happen but I would love Starmer to Waltz in to the white house and go "Oi Trumpton, things are going to change around here and you'll quickly learn whose the boss here, oh and about your scottish golf course, the bulldozers arrive tomorrow".

 

[InkyScrolls]

We will need an assurance that once they have been granted these concessions they will be satisfied and not make any more requests.

With adequate compensation and resettlement this could work and be beneficial to all. Even those in the countries taken over.

I just wish more people could see Trump for what he is. A man who talks common sense and is solving the worlds problems by making the big decisions even when they are hard. He has no need to involve himself in saving western civilisation but has chosen to do so as he wants to save us from ourselves.

Thanks for this, I needed a laugh.

 

[trainswitheddy]

We will need an assurance that once they have been granted these concessions they will be satisfied and not make any more requests.

With all due respect, what happens if these assurances mean nothing, e.g. Russia tries taking other regions in Ukraine. Do we just roll over and accept territorial demands? What if, heaven forbid, they start asking for NATO lands?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Feb 2025 ==

Ultimately for the majority of cases the answer seems to be 'you don't'.

Call me naive (And I probably am very!) but I'm not entirely sure I buy this, I have seen Trump voters a plenty very vocal about their support for his dismantling of even programs that they may benefit from but are these the large majority or could there be a silent majority who simply voted because, apologies for sounding like a broken record, they want to just feed their kids or afford petrol etc.

It is very easy for me to say I'd never vote Trump after that January 6 stunt (And a lot more before that, mind you) but I am not in a situation where I can't afford groceries etc. How many people didn't vote on voter apathy or voted Trump purely because of the economy?
And if I'm not being naive, how do we reach these people? Or will the anti-fact checking rhetoric of the Trump campaign pull these people further into their influence?

 

[brad465]

Don't even know where to begin with this:

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Trump slams President Zelensky for demanding a seat at peace negotiations over his own country’s future: “You’ve been there for three years. You should’ve ended it in three years. You should have never started it.” (Fact check: Russia started the war against Ukraine.) Video attached

 

[LMS786]

Ukraine is going to be hung out to dry, whilst rest of Europe is going to sit down and watch as a spectator (like today). There is virtually nothing Europe can do. No NATO membership for Ukraine and 20% territory lost forever - and that happens to be the mineral rich & strategically important territory. Sanctions to be lifted on Russia in due course and...guess who would want a pie of the new found wealth?

 

[GusB]

Don't even know where to begin with this:

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It's interesting how various news organisations have edited Trump's words.

The BBC clip doesn't show Trump saying those words:

Russia won't accept Nato troops in Ukraine, Lavrov says after talks with US

The meeting was the first time since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine that Russian and American delegations are known to have met face-to-face.

www.bbc.co.uk

But US President Donald Trump later said he was "disappointed" by Ukraine's reaction.

Speaking to reporters at Mar-a-Lago, he was asked by the BBC what his message was to Ukrainians who might feel betrayed.

"I hear that they're upset about not having a seat, well, they've had a seat for three years and a long time before that. This could have been settled very easily," he said.

There are fairly obvious cuts in both clips. Painful though it may be, I'd rather see the full, unedited version.

 

[Yew]

There is virtually nothing Europe can do.

That is obviously untrue, Europe is one of the largest geopolitical entities in the world, with a vastly larger GDP and defence budget than Russia.

 

[Loppylugs]

With the Americans cuddling up to Russia and Donald T. Rump kissing Putin's backside, I am reminded of the O'Jays song of 1972: Backstabbers.

 

[sannox]

That is obviously untrue, Europe is one of the largest geopolitical entities in the world, with a vastly larger GDP and defence budget than Russia.

But it's fractured and hard to get even the major powers to align these days.

 

[dcbwhaley]

With the Americans cuddling up to Russia and Donald T. Rump kissing Putin's backside, I am reminded of the O'Jays song of 1972: Backstabbers.

The rumbling noise is Joe McCarthy turning in his grave

 

[Giugiaro]

May as well kick the US out of NATO before Trump either destroys the organization or quits itself.
With the United States out of the equation, the remaining NATO members won't have any other choice but to step up their game, as the "American assurance" they were so used to won't be there anymore.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Feb 2025 ==

But it's fractured and hard to get even the major powers to align these days.

It's fractured because almost everything is done based on a unanimous vote.

It's pretty to have everyone on board, but when the world is fast charging towards impending doom, you surely don't want to waste months and liters of spit trying to tell Viktor Orbán to stop daydreaming and look where everyone is heading.
Both NATO and the EU should have transitioned to a 2/3rds majority vote for many of their pressing issues because otherwise there's always one devil in the group we are forced to negotiate with.

 

[YorkshireBear]

May as well kick the US out of NATO before Trump either destroys the organization or quits itself.
With the United States out of the equation, the remaining NATO members won't have any other choice but to step up their game, as the "American assurance" they were so used to won't be there anymore.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Feb 2025 ==



It's fractured because almost everything is done based on a unanimous vote.

It's pretty to have everyone on board, but when the world is fast charging towards impending doom, you surely don't want to waste months and liters of spit trying to tell Viktor Orbán to stop daydreaming and look where everyone is heading.
Both NATO and the EU should have transitioned to a 2/3rds majority vote for many of their pressing issues because otherwise there's always one devil in the group we are forced to negotiate with.

I am not sure those who were in the minority would just accept it in that case anymore, that era of countries working together appears to have ended for now.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I think some sacrifices need to be made.

Put in gets Ukrain, Trump gets Greenland, Israel takes Gaza whilst China gets Tiwan. Anyond who lives in these countries and does not want to live under the new government can be resettled and paid compensation.

By doing this everyone wins. Those impacted in the countries in question will be better off with more money whilst in the long run and the world powers will be happy and stable.

If we don't appease them then we run the risk of economic misery and even war.

So how much of Texas, Califonia, Arizona, Louisiana etc should the US give up if Mexico was to attack the US? Or how much of Washington, Montana, New York etc should the US give up to Canada? Or how much of Kent, Essex, Sussex etc should the UK give up to France?

 

[yorkie]

We will need an assurance that once they have been granted these concessions they will be satisfied and not make any more requests.

How would you believe any such "assurances"?

With adequate compensation and resettlement this could work and be beneficial to all. Even those in the countries taken over.

Under what authority, and with what knowledge, do you make this claim?

I just wish more people could see Trump for what he is.

I agree; while the vast majority of people see Trump for what he is, a small minority of people outside the US - such as yourself - clearly do not.

A man who talks common sense and is solving the worlds problems by making the big decisions even when they are hard. He has no need to involve himself in saving western civilisation but has chosen to do so as he wants to save us from ourselves.

If this is a serious statement, this is perhaps the most naive post I've ever read on this forum. Do you have any evidence to back up these claims?

I think some sacrifices need to be made.

That's easy for you to say. Do you actually know anyone from the affected places?

Put in gets Ukrain, Trump gets Greenland, Israel takes Gaza whilst China gets Tiwan.

Even if the people in those places think otherwise?

Anyond who lives in these countries and does not want to live under the new government can be resettled and paid compensation.

What if people do not want to be resettled? And what do you mean by compensation, and do you think that adequate compensation would actually be offered?

By doing this everyone wins.

In the opinion of Trump, Putin and their followers, yes. But in the opinion of the vast majority of people, no.

Those impacted in the countries in question will be better off with more money whilst in the long run and the world powers will be happy and stable.

Is this based on some sort of fantasy?

If we don't appease them then we run the risk of economic misery and even war.

Did the annexation of Crimea appease Putin?

 

[jfollows]

Did the annexation of Crimea appease Putin?

The lack of response from “the west” only encouraged him, a lot of the reasons for why we are where we are now stem from this.

 

[yorkie]

The lack of response from “the west” only encouraged him, a lot of the reasons for why we are where we are now stem from this.

Exactly, though I'd like to see @STINT47 address the many sensible questions that have been asked of them.

It's relatively comforting that only a small minority of forum members appear to be taken in by the ludicrous claims of Trump, but also worrying that even a small proportion have been. I suspect that those who are mislead by Trump will be unable to answer difficult questions, but we shall see...

 

[brad465]

Someone needs to stop Liverpool winning the Premier League this year: there seems to be some form of jinx, where whenever they perform well and it looks like no-one can catch them, the world goes mad. In 2020 it was the emergence of covid and subsequent response. This time it's Russia and Trump's New World Order. If Liverpool capitulate and are pipped to the title by their closest rivals then the world will calm down again.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This time it's Russia and Trump's New World Order. If Liverpool capitulate and are pipped to the title by their closest rivals then the world will calm down again.

Arsenal last won the title in 2004. The world was mostly a calm and sensible place in 2004.

We know what needs to happen.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Feb 2025 ==

With all due respect, what happens if these assurances mean nothing

Of course Putin will be satisfied with what he's gained, just as Hitler was quite satisfied with his lebensraum and didn't just keep pushing for a little bit more.

Oh.

If I were Taiwanese I'd be looking nervously over my shoulder right now.

I can't believe that a USA that has been terrified of the Russians since 1917 now has a bona fide KGB agent in the Oval Office. The world has, quite literally, gone mad.

 

[Harpo]

It's relatively comforting that only a small minority of forum members appear to be taken in by the ludicrous claims of Trump

I’m more worried about the single US president taken in by the ludicrous claims of Putin. It’s getting incredibly surreal out there.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's interesting how various news organisations have edited Trump's words.

The BBC clip doesn't show Trump saying those words:

The BBC have now put the quote back in:

Speaking to reporters at his Mar-a-Lago residence, Trump was asked by BBC News what his message was to Ukrainians who might feel betrayed.

"I hear that they're upset about not having a seat, well, they've had a seat for three years and a long time before that. This could have been settled very easily," he said.

"You should have never started it. You could have made a deal," he later added.

 

[Gloster]

I’m more worried about the single US president taken in by the ludicrous claims of Putin. It’s getting incredibly surreal out there.

I think that he just does not care about anything that he can’t make money from. Foreign policy is just a way to grift more mineral rights, luxury resorts, etc. Domestic policy is a complete mess, but he would like to fool or bribe enough of those he can’t disenfranchise to get himself back in for a third term.

 

[brad465]

Exactly, though I'd like to see @STINT47 address the many sensible questions that have been asked of them.

It's relatively comforting that only a small minority of forum members appear to be taken in by the ludicrous claims of Trump, but also worrying that even a small proportion have been. I suspect that those who are mislead by Trump will be unable to answer difficult questions, but we shall see...

If you want more comfort, YouGov polled UK approval ratings of Trump, Putin and Zelensky and when it comes to Trump, he's very unpopular with everyone except 2024 Reform voters, while Putin's disapproval is so high among all groups it's only a few points off universal:

x.com

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Reform UK voters are much more likely to have a positive view of Donald Trump than other voters, slightly more likely to have a positive view of Vladimir Putin, and less likely to have a positive view of Volodymyr Zelenskyy

Donald Trump - net favourability scores Lib Dem: -84 Labour: -82 Conservative: -40 Reform UK: +38
Vladimir Putin Labour: -94 Conservative: -92 Lib Dem: -91 Reform UK: -68
Volodymyr Zelenskyy Lib Dem: +75 Labour: +66 Conservative: +65 Reform UK: +12

(Image of YouGovs approval rating table showing the data written just before the image)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1891818765404471598/photo/1

 

[YorkshireBear]

Didn't take him long to start repeating Putin claims and now calling Zelensky a dictator. Feel for Ukraine, as the bus the US is throwing them under screeches towards them at astonishing speed.

Europe provides 60% of the support, take away the 40% and I don't Ukraine will hold. Simply because Russia will push harder knowing US isn't supplying Ukraine and Ukraine morale will surely nosedive.

 

[edwin_m]

Europe provides 60% of the support, take away the 40% and I don't Ukraine will hold. Simply because Russia will push harder knowing US isn't supplying Ukraine and Ukraine morale will surely nosedive.

Very much what happened when Congress blocked all aid for several months in early 2024.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Very much what happened when Congress blocked all aid for several months in early 2024.

Indeed, I had somehow briefly forgot that period.

The way he speaks about Zelensky is pathetic. How have we arrived at this point where the leader of the 'free world' speaks like that about another world leader publicly.

 

[brad465]

Indeed, I had somehow briefly forgot that period.

The way he speaks about Zelensky is pathetic. How have we arrived at this point where the leader of the 'free world' speaks like that about another world leader publicly.

If an average UK citizen was behaving and speaking exactly as Trump has been since returning to office, I'm willing to believe they'd have been sectioned or referred to Prevent by now.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Europe provides 60% of the support, take away the 40% and I don't Ukraine will hold. Simply because Russia will push harder knowing US isn't supplying Ukraine and Ukraine morale will surely nosedive.

My gut feeling right now is that if this actually does happen, Ukraine will move to a guerilla war against Russia. They can operate quite freely in Russia (there is a Ukrainian accent in Russian, but this can be disguised), and if they bring mass terror to Russian cities, Russia may really struggle to deal with the consequences of it. A few trucks blowing up in busy populated areas would soon cause mass discontent, and Russia is so corrupt that it wouldn't be difficult to buy off a few people to allow such attacks to happen.

The way he speaks about Zelensky is pathetic. How have we arrived at this point where the leader of the 'free world' speaks like that about another world leader publicly.

It is absolutely pathetic. It's very, very sad to see how far America has fallen.