Thoughts on the Trump presidency

[Harpo]

Meanwhile, we have Nigel and Richard saying we must cosy up with Trump if we want to be safe, when it's clearer than ever that we must form a closer alliance to Europe.

It might work for Reform’s red-meaters, but let’s hope that the general revulsion for Trump/Musk/Vance is enough to alert the UK population.

It’s one thing to have a divorce from Europe but quite another to turn our back on it.

 

[DustyBin]

We are where we are. The US does not care about Ukraine. It may care that Russia should not have total victory.

Options:
Ukraine defeats Russia, boundaries revert to 2014. How, without US support?
War continues, Ukraine gradually battered into submission.
Deal which preserves a Ukrainian state, but with Russian domination built-in.
Deal which preserves a Ukrainian state, with economic and defence independence, albeit vulnerable to a further attack.

The other option is a deal which preserves a Ukrainian state with close ties to Europe and NATO, but with independent defence capabilities that make it effectively uninvadable. Basically the (old) Sweden/Finland model.

This, with minimal concessions in terms of territory etc. is what the realist in me thinks we should be aiming for at this stage.

Remember that time when Hitler took Austria and people just accepted that they basically spoke German and so it wasn't to big of a deal, he just stopped there didn't he?
Putin will be no different.

You’re correct, but I’m not really seeing much evidence of outright appeasement. Putin isn’t exactly on a roll here; the key is to make any “victory” as pyrrhic as possible.

 

[oldman]

The other option is a deal which preserves a Ukrainian state with close ties to Europe and NATO, but with independent defence capabilities that make it effectively uninvadable.

Which is more or less my fourth option. I don't know how uninvadable Finland was outside NATO.

 

[Falcon1200]

What did Boris Johnson try to do to stop this conflict? If anything the Putin acolytes keep claiming he was the barrier to peace after some supposed deal in April 2022.

Surely no-one believes a word Putin or his acolytes say? What Boris Johnson tried to do was prevent one nation invading and annexing the territory of another.

 

[DustyBin]

Which is more or less my fourth option. I don't know how uninvadable Finland was outside NATO.

I would suggest “Highly”. The Fins have spent decades preparing for a potential war with Russia, and have considerable capabilities.

The Poles appear to be adopting a similar approach, and with western assistance I see no reason why Ukraine couldn’t do the same.

 

[YorkshireBear]

That went well....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g3nrx1dq5o

US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

The US government is trying to bring back nuclear safety employees it fired on Thursday, but is struggling to let them know they should return to work, NBC News has reported.

The National Nuclear Security Administration workers were among hundreds of employees in the energy department who received termination letters.

An email obtained by NBC said the letters for some NNSA employees "are being rescinded, but we do not have a good way to get in touch with those personnel".

The terminations are part of massive effort by President Donald Trump to slash the ranks of the federal workforce, a project he began on his first day in office, less than a month ago.

Last week, nearly 10,000 federal workers were let go, according to multiple US outlets.

That figure was in addition to the estimated 75,000 workers who have accepted an offer from the White House to leave voluntarily in the autumn.

The nuclear security officials who were laid off on Thursday helped oversee the nation's stockpile of nuclear weapons. That included staff who are stationed at facilities where the weapons are built, according to CNN.

Attempting to reach the workers, the email, which was sent to current employees, said: "Please work with your supervisors to send this information (once you get it) to people's personal contact emails."

Trump is working to slash spending across the board, abroad and at home, and going so far as to call for eliminating the education department. He is getting help from the world's richest man, Elon Musk, who, through an effort called Doge for Department of Government Efficiency, has sent workers to comb through data at federal agencies and helped implement the "buyout" offer.

Last week, the Trump administration ordered agencies to fire nearly all probationary employees, those who had generally been in their positions for less than a year and not yet earned job protection. That included the NNSA staff members.

Altogether, the move could potentially affect hundreds of thousands of people.

Several of the Trump administration's efforts to shrink the government's size and spending have been met with legal challenges.

More than 60 lawsuits have been filed against the Trump administration since the president was inaugurated on 20 January.

 

[DelW]

That went well....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g3nrx1dq5o

Didn't Musk do the same at Twitter, fire everybody and only then try to work out which ones had been essential to the business, and rehire them?

As the saying goes "insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome"

 

[dcbwhaley]

As the saying goes "insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome"

Off topic but: With a windo
ws PC "insanity is doing the same thing and expecting the same outcome"

 

[jon0844]

Didn't Musk do the same at Twitter, fire everybody and only then try to work out which ones had been essential to the business, and rehire them?

As the saying goes "insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome"

He has said that this strategy works as you can find out that way who you need, and who you don't. I guess it makes sense in SOME scenarios, but not for this sort of thing.

I know BT have absolutely shed loads of mobile phone SIM cards and phone numbers active and likely can't keep track so what they do from time to time is send a message to phones that if the owner doesn't respond within a certain time to say if/why they need it, it will be cut off. I am sure other large firms do similar with things like phone numbers and possibly email addresses etc.

Now that makes sense. Sacking federal staff does not.

It's perhaps why people in business can't run a country like a business.

 

[najaB]

That went well....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g3nrx1dq5o

All of this chaos is to try and identify $2 trillion in cuts to the federal budget so that they can continue $5 trillion in tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy.

 

[FinsburyPark]

It might work for Reform’s red-meaters, but let’s hope that the general revulsion for Trump/Musk/Vance is enough to alert the UK population.

It’s one thing to have a divorce from Europe but quite another to turn our back on it.

Well what with the Tariffs and that Trump is facing an ever growing list of court disputes relating to his executive orders, the possibility of Trump failing, or loosing his sheen is a possibility that could happen between now and then.

Maybe it will turn off Reforms core supporters, maybe it wont.

It would likely have an effect on the opinions of Reforms swing voyers and voters who never supported Reform in the 1st place.

 

[brad465]

Say what you like about John Major, but today he made a particular remark that was top trolling:

Trump's isolation threatens global democracy, warns former PM John Major

Sir John says US policy will embolden Russia and China, with gains since the fall of the Soviet Union being reversed.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sir John Major has warned that democracy is under threat as the United States steps back from its leading role in the world.

The former prime minister told the BBC that US President Donald Trump's policy of American "isolation" was creating a power vacuum that would embolden nations like Russia and China.

Sir John, who was PM from 1990 to 1997, said the gains made since the collapse of the Soviet Union were now being reversed - and that there was "no doubt" Russia would invade elsewhere before long.
He said that "ugly nationalism" growing concurrently was making for a "very unsettled time".

His comments come as European leaders prepare for an emergency summit on Monday on the war in Ukraine.
US and Russian officials are due to open peace talks in the coming days despite concerns European nations including Ukraine were being locked out.

Sir John also rejected US Vice-President JD Vance's recent criticism of Europe's record on free speech, suggesting the remarks should have been directed at the authorities in Moscow or Beijing.

He told BBC Radio 4's The World This Weekend: "It's extremely odd to lecture Europe on the subject of free speech and democracy at the same time as they're cuddling [Russian President Vladimir] Putin.

"In Mr Putin's Russia, people who disagree with him disappear, or die, or flee the country, or - on a statistically unlikely level - fall out of high windows somewhere in Moscow."

The specific quote is "It's extremely odd to lecture Europe on the subject of free speech and democracy at the same time as they're cuddling [Russian President Vladimir] Putin. In Mr Putin's Russia, people who disagree with him disappear, or die, or flee the country, or - on a statistically unlikely level - fall out of high windows somewhere in Moscow."

 

[trainswitheddy]

Say what you like about John Major, but today he made a particular remark that was top trolling:

Trump's isolation threatens global democracy, warns former PM John Major

Sir John says US policy will embolden Russia and China, with gains since the fall of the Soviet Union being reversed.

www.bbc.co.uk

The specific quote is "It's extremely odd to lecture Europe on the subject of free speech and democracy at the same time as they're cuddling [Russian President Vladimir] Putin. In Mr Putin's Russia, people who disagree with him disappear, or die, or flee the country, or - on a statistically unlikely level - fall out of high windows somewhere in Moscow."

It's a pretty odd state we're in where people are idolising Putin as a man of the people and bastion of free speech but anyone who called the war a war was punished afaik.

 

[jon0844]

Some people seem to like Putin because of his stance on things like LGBTQ+ issues and ethnic minorities. They'd really like to see places like the USA or UK look like what they think Russia looks like, and seem willing to accept the loss of democracy and freedoms to achieve that aim.

That's why so many people on the far right are defending and even supporting/promoting Russia.

 

[brad465]

Let me guess, if Romania doesn't comply Trump will impose tariffs on them, and/or allow Russia to invade them without resistance:

MSN

The Trump administration has pressured Romanian authorities to remove travel restrictions on the Tate brothers, reports say.

Self-described misogynist Andrew Tate has been accused of a string of allegations relating to the trafficking of minors, sexual intercourse with a minor and money laundering.

He is still facing charges, alongside his brother Tristan, and is currently “under judicial control”, meaning he can travel through Romania "while adhering to the required legal conditions". Both deny wrongdoing.

But the Financial Times reports that the Tates’ case was brought up by US officials in a phone call with the Romanian government last week.

The case was then brought up again by Donald Trump’s special envoy Richard Grenell when he met the Romanian foreign minister at a conference in Munich, several sources told the FT.

Another source told the newspaper a request was made to return the brothers’ passports and allow them to travel while they wait for court proceedings to end.

Mr Grenell has previously shown his support for the Tate brothers on X. At the start of February, he posted on X that Romania was the “latest example” of how “USAid programs were weaponised against people and politicians who weren’t woke”.

 

[Harpo]

Trump has massively changed the way that the USA does business but I don’t feel that European nations are changing theirs to counter them and are continuing in a traditional diplomatic mode which the new US bullies have abandoned.

It’s almost as if Europe is appeasing Trump, while Trump appeases Putin.

 

[STINT47]

I think k that we may have to appease Trump and Putin with some of their demands.

It's not ideal but in the intrest of the wider world economy, stability and security sacrifices may need to be made.

The needs of the greater world must overrule a few minor territory disputes if our PM is to get a promise of peace in our time.

 

[SuspectUsual]

a few minor territory disputes

Is that how you see the Ukraine situation?!?

a promise of peace in our time.

You know what happened when Chamberlain spoke about "peace in our time" in 1938?

 

[Gloster]

I think k that we may have to appease Trump and Putin with some of their demands.

It's not ideal but in the intrest of the wider world economy, stability and security sacrifices may need to be made.

The needs of the greater world must overrule a few minor territory disputes if our PM is to get a promise of peace in our time.

And we know what the last ‘promise of peace in our time’ led to.

 

[edwin_m]

Trump has massively changed the way that the USA does business but I don’t feel that European nations are changing theirs to counter them and are continuing in a traditional diplomatic mode which the new US bullies have abandoned.

It’s almost as if Europe is appeasing Trump, while Trump appeases Putin.

Rhere's a difference between flattery or buttering him up with praise and the occasional royal visit, and conceding on our fundamental principles.

You know what happened when Chamberlain spoke about "peace in our time" in 1938?

Also just after returning from Munich...

 

[trainswitheddy]

I think k that we may have to appease Trump and Putin with some of their demands.

It's not ideal but in the intrest of the wider world economy, stability and security sacrifices may need to be made.

The needs of the greater world must overrule a few minor territory disputes if our PM is to get a promise of peace in our time.

While I agree economic issues are important when we're in a situation where people cannot afford to heat their home and put food on the table I again circle back to the point of Taiwan. China WILL be looking at this situation and observing how peoples views can be manipulated as many have towards Ukraine/Russia in order to best plan an invasion with little/no western support. If we won't support an ally with easy access for resupply delivery how in hell are we going to support one with an entire ocean seperating us.

Furthermore, how far will this appeasement go? It's all well and good accepting terms for economic stability in the long term but the US has clearly shown itself to prefer Russia over the EU. How far will this go?

 

[najaB]

You know what happened when Chamberlain spoke about "peace in our time" in 1938?

I suspect that particular phrase was chosen for it's value in pointing out the danger of appeasement.

 

[STINT47]

I think some sacrifices need to be made.

Put in gets Ukrain, Trump gets Greenland, Israel takes Gaza whilst China gets Tiwan. Anyond who lives in these countries and does not want to live under the new government can be resettled and paid compensation.

By doing this everyone wins. Those impacted in the countries in question will be better off with more money whilst in the long run and the world powers will be happy and stable.

If we don't appease them then we run the risk of economic misery and even war.

 

[Gloster]

I wonder if the current European plan is to avoid upsetting Trump at the moment in the hope that he will run out of steam with his madcap ideas, get in a row with Musk, listen to more reasonable advisers (if he has any), etc. Then the Europeans, who have avoided damaging his massive ego, will be able to make him see at least some reason. I am not optimistic (and I suspect that they aren’t either), but there is little alternative.

I feel that this country is approaching the moment when it will have to make a major decision: do we roll over and do what Trump wants to an even greater and (probably) more damaging extent than has been the case before in our ‘Special relationship‘ with the USA or do we dig our heels in and hope that we can ally with the rest of Europe. We are in a particularly difficult situation here, both due to the historic suspicion that we were the USA’s Trojan horse and events of the last ten years.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2025 ==

I think some sacrifices need to be made.

Put in gets Ukrain, Trump gets Greenland, Israel takes Gaza whilst China gets Tiwan. Anyond who lives in these countries and does not want to live under the new government can be resettled and paid compensation.

By doing this everyone wins. Those impacted in the countries in question will be better off with more money whilst in the long run and the world powers will be happy and stable.

If we don't appease them then we run the risk of economic misery and even war.

Except for the people of Ukraine, Greenland, Gaza and Taiwan…and everyone else who wonders if they will be next.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think some sacrifices need to be made.

Put in gets Ukrain, Trump gets Greenland, Israel takes Gaza whilst China gets Tiwan. Anyond who lives in these countries and does not want to live under the new government can be resettled and paid compensation.

Repellent post, truly fascist. Totally poisoned worldview which justifies colonialism and ethnic cleansing.

By doing this everyone wins.

Ethnic cleansing is winning, is it?

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think some sacrifices need to be made.

Put in gets Ukrain, Trump gets Greenland, Israel takes Gaza whilst China gets Tiwan. Anyond who lives in these countries and does not want to live under the new government can be resettled and paid compensation.

By doing this everyone wins. Those impacted in the countries in question will be better off with more money whilst in the long run and the world powers will be happy and stable.

If we don't appease them then we run the risk of economic misery and even war.

And then when the US want Norway, China fancies Japan, Russia wants the Baltic's and Israel fancies a bit of Syria then what?

Then when the US fancies the UK, China wants Mongolia, Russia wants Romania and Poland and Israel fancies Jordan, then what?

"Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me"

 

[SuspectUsual]

I think some sacrifices need to be made.

Put in gets Ukrain, Trump gets Greenland, Israel takes Gaza whilst China gets Tiwan. Anyond who lives in these countries and does not want to live under the new government can be resettled and paid compensation.

By doing this everyone wins. Those impacted in the countries in question will be better off with more money whilst in the long run and the world powers will be happy and stable.

If we don't appease them then we run the risk of economic misery and even war.

Please tell me you’re not serious

 

[najaB]

I think some sacrifices need to be made.

Put in gets Ukrain, Trump gets Greenland, Israel takes Gaza whilst China gets Tiwan. Anyond who lives in these countries and does not want to live under the new government can be resettled and paid compensation.

By doing this everyone wins. Those impacted in the countries in question will be better off with more money whilst in the long run and the world powers will be happy and stable.

If we don't appease them then we run the risk of economic misery and even war.

Poe's Law is coming into play here...

For avoidance of doubt, is this a serious post?

 

[DarloRich]

Let's stop the fighting, and some compromises will have to be made by all sides, but it's been going on for too long now to moan about these too much.

How much of Kent, Sussex and Middlesex would you give up had Britain been invaded?

 

[STINT47]

And then when the US want Norway, China fancies Japan, Russia wants the Baltic's and Israel fancies a bit of Syria then what?

Then when the US fancies the UK, China wants Mongolia, Russia wants Romania and Poland and Israel fancies Jordan, then what?

"Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me"

We will need an assurance that once they have been granted these concessions they will be satisfied and not make any more requests.

With adequate compensation and resettlement this could work and be beneficial to all. Even those in the countries taken over.

I just wish more people could see Trump for what he is. A man who talks common sense and is solving the worlds problems by making the big decisions even when they are hard. He has no need to involve himself in saving western civilisation but has chosen to do so as he wants to save us from ourselves.