Notice of Intention to prosecute

[vijay001]

You have been taken to court, convicted and fined. The letter is advising you that the court is taking ateps to recover the money that you now owe. You also have a criminal record.

The options you now have are to pay the amount owed or to make a statutory declaration to reset the court case and attempt to reach a settlement with the train company.

Is this a separate case of fare evasion from the one where you were stopped at Horley in October? We rarely see GTR take a case to the courts so it is not clear which court they would use.

I didn't pay the amount and now am willing to pay but date expires. So now what should I do and I am student if criminal records it affects my future and studies.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2025 ==

So to get this right, there are two separate cases now?

One is where you have not replied to any correspondence, and have received a criminal conviction, and a fine as punishment. Has this been paid? Did you receive any notification of the proceedings?

And, separate to this, you short ticketed in an entirely separate incident?

No I didn't paid today only my colleague send this.

 

[Cuthbert]

1: Caught in May 2024 for an invalid ticket and did not get letters due to moving and seems to have been convicted?
2: Caught in October for short faring.

 

[vijay001]

1: Caught in May 2024 for an invalid ticket and did not get letters due to moving and seems to have been convicted?
2: Caught in October for short faring.

What should I do for 1st one to pay the amount

 

[tonycockram]

As Haywain says, if things the first thing you know about this incident, you can do a statutory declaration and reset this case, but you have to go to a court or a solicitor to do this and you have to tell the truth!

You can pay it, but the charge may have already increased as it was due mid January.

 

[Cuthbert]

What should I do for 1st one to pay the amount

I really think you need to check for other letters from the previous address to get the information needed.
There would have been more sent than the one you posted today in post #54

I mean GTR will know it went to court would they still accept an out of court settlement with this new case he got from fare evasion as he hasn't paid the first one.

 

[30907]

I mean GTR will know it went to court would they still accept an out of court settlement with this new case he got from fare evasion as he hasn't paid the first one.

I don't think we can second-guess this.

Meanwhile, @vijay001 if you never received a Summons from the court, you can make a Statutory Declaration at a solicitor's (costs £5 I think) which means the court gives you a chance to plead guilty or not guilty, and tell them about your income.
This will at the least reduce your fine as you are a student with low income (I presume), but it might give you a chance to contact GTR and ask them to consider settling out of court. It has been known to happen.
It might be helpful to get help in person from someone whose first language is (UK) English

 

[Haywain]

This is for may I got caught for Railcard

Where was this, and which train company was involved? And after being caught twice last year have you now stopped fare dodging?

 

[vijay001]

I don't think we can second-guess this.

Meanwhile, @vijay001 if you never received a Summons from the court, you can make a Statutory Declaration at a solicitor's (costs £5 I think) which means the court gives you a chance to plead guilty or not guilty, and tell them about your income.
This will at the least reduce your fine as you are a student with low income (I presume), but it might give you a chance to contact GTR and ask them to consider settling out of court. It has been known to happen.
It might be helpful to get help in person from someone whose first language is (UK) English

Ok how to contact the GTR. And phone number or email to contact them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2025 ==

Where was this, and which train company was involved? And after being caught twice last year have you now stopped fare dodging?

GTR. Yes now I stopped

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi good morning, I need help because on last year 2024 may I caught from revenue department for travel invalid ticket. I give my address old and new and now I am in new address for more then 9 months. I don't have any access for my old address. Today one guy sent me the letter who is in same room.i don't have any other letters received. So anyone help me to sort out the issues.thank you.

Ref what you have received in post #54 would be to get in touch with the court (probably ask to speak to the court fines officer) and arrange to pay the sum they are demanding in full and as soon as possible to prevent the sum of money escalating if they appoint debt collectors to find you (which they will do)

When you pay it get a receipt and keep the receipt long term (for 6 years)

 

[vijay001]

Hi good afternoon everyone hope everyone is doing well.

I already mentioned I got cout fine for the 1st case with different addresses. So after that I reopened the case.

I have hearing on February 19. So for the 2nd case I said to pay out of court settlement.

Today I speak to prosecution department and they said they will not agree with the out of court settlement because this is 2nd time.

And I said my situation about I am going back to my country because I received mail from ukvi government to leave the country due to visa expires and I send evidence to prosecution department.

I spoke to the office and he said will not decide the outcome until 1st case results will come from court.

I don't know why they linking this case to 1st one. Everything is different case.

And I am planning to go my country by this month when I am going I am paying all the amount with any bog logs and any records of me.

What should I do now. Can anyone help to resolve the issue. Thank you

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I spoke to the office and he said will not decide the outcome until 1st case results will come from court. I don't know why they linking this case to 1st one. Everything is different case.

It's important to recognise that the linking factor is you. It looks as if the railway may think that nothing short of court action will persuade you that it's essential to follow the rules for train tickets. BUt if the first case clears you they might be prepared to take a rather more sympathetic view.

 

[WesternLancer]

I think the issue here is essentially the practical issue that if the railway pursue court action for the 2nd case (as they seem to be saying they are minded to do) in practical terms the OP is not going to fly back to the UK to attend the court (so will be found guilty and fined in their absence but will never get the paperwork to plead, or pay the fine - when I think the OP is prepared to do that.

So the OP is asking the railway company to be pragmatic and accept a payment of the second occasion out of court rather than prosecute but receive no meaningful punishment because the OP is away form the UK - probably never to return. It is in fact in the railway company's interests to be pragmatic and accept a payment settlement in my view because as OP has possibly over stayed their visa they might not get another entry permission to come back to the UK any time soon I suspect - not even to attend court....(NOTE - this is not immigration advice)

To @vijay001 is this a correct outline of the situation from your point of view?

@vijay001 - can you explain:

1) is the first case the case that has a court date of 19 Feb? - which if so, and if you go to the court on 19th feb, you will find out what has happened then, and if you are found guilty (i assume you probably will be) you can then pay the fine for that verdict at the court fairly quickly - or you may even be able to pay it from abroad, that leaves a clean sheet for that case.

2) Given you have been asked to leave the UK by Home Office / UK Visa and immigration (I assume you have perhaps over stayed a student visa for example) - have you made arrangements to leave the UK yet - do you have a flight and a departure date? If so is this before or after 19th Feb.

I will try to give more helpful suggestion on your options - which are fairly limited I must say - when you answer these questions clearly.

 

[vijay001]

I think the issue here is essentially the practical issue that if the railway pursue court action for the 2nd case (as they seem to be saying they are minded to do) in practical terms the OP is not going to fly back to the UK to attend the court (so will be found guilty and fined in their absence but will never get the paperwork to plead, or pay the fine - when I think the OP is prepared to do that.

So the OP is asking the railway company to be pragmatic and accept a payment of the second occasion out of court rather than prosecute but receive no meaningful punishment because the OP is away form the UK - probably never to return. It is in fact in the railway company's interests to be pragmatic and accept a payment settlement in my view because as OP has possibly over stayed their visa they might not get another entry permission to come back to the UK any time soon I suspect - not even to attend court....(NOTE - this is not immigration advice)

To @vijay001 is this a correct outline of the situation from your point of view?

@vijay001 - can you explain:

1) is the first case the case that has a court date of 19 Feb? - which if so, and if you go to the court on 19th feb, you will find out what has happened then, and if you are found guilty (i assume you probably will be) you can then pay the fine for that verdict at the court fairly quickly - or you may even be able to pay it from abroad, that leaves a clean sheet for that case.

2) Given you have been asked to leave the UK by Home Office / UK Visa and immigration (I assume you have perhaps over stayed a student visa for example) - have you made arrangements to leave the UK yet - do you have a flight and a departure date? If so is this before or after 19th Feb.

I will try to give more helpful suggestion on your options - which are fairly limited I must say - when you answer these questions clearly.

1. I reopened the case January 27 something. After only I received email from ukvi government. I reopened the case because of address issues. So on February 19 is online so I no need to attend the court. And I am willing to pay the fine for case 1 .
2. I am planning to go by this month lastly.

When I speak to prosecution department and said everything. He said when 1st case results will by court then he will decide for case 2. Unless my case 2 be pending.


Can i know why they link the both cases together everything is different occasions. And I have another doubt if the 2nd case go to majestic court it will comes under criminal records or bylaws record. What type of offence is this. And will affect my future when in my country or if I return back to UK future.

 

[pedr]

You need an Immigration Advisor to help with your final question because the details of what factors are important for visa applications are specialised knowledge and only suitably qualified lawyers can advise on them. It may be worth paying for immigration advice from a solicitor licensed to do immigration work and to pay them to also help with your communication with the train company, too. They might be able to explain your situation to the train company better than you can.

 

[vijay001]

Can anyone explain what should I do further. It will comes under criminal records or convictions. It will spoil my future and employment opportunities. Why they linking both cases and looking forward for my 1st case outcome. And after only they will decide for my 2nd case. Can anyone explain.

 

[WesternLancer]

1. I reopened the case January 27 something. After only I received email from ukvi government. I reopened the case because of address issues. So on February 19 is online so I no need to attend the court. And I am willing to pay the fine for case 1 .
2. I am planning to go by this month lastly.

When I speak to prosecution department and said everything. He said when 1st case results will by court then he will decide for case 2. Unless my case 2 be pending.


Can i know why they link the both cases together everything is different occasions. And I have another doubt if the 2nd case go to majestic court it will comes under criminal records or bylaws record. What type of offence is this. And will affect my future when in my country or if I return back to UK future.

Apologies as I mean no offence but as your written English isn’t very clear I am not sure I fully understand this.

But if you committed two offences and were caught on two occasions they can prosecute you two times if they want to.

We could probably help you write a clear letter to them asking if they will settle the second case without court if you are leaving the UK.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Why they linking both cases and looking forward for my 1st case outcome. And after only they will decide for my 2nd case. Can anyone explain.

It won't feel like it, but the railway are trying to be fair to you.

The railway know that anyone can make a mistake once - maybe because they didn't know the rules. But if someone breaks the rules twice, that feels like they know the rules and can't be bothered to follow them. This matters to the railways because if you follow the rules you pay them money: most people who break the rules pay less money, until they are caught.

In your case, you may have broken the rules twice. But instead of treating you as someone who has done that, the railway are waiting for the court to decide whether you really broke the rules the first time. If the court decides you didn't, the railway might decide to treat the second time you were caught just as a mistake.

As it happens, you are leaving the country soon. So it might be worth writing politely to the railway to tell them why letting you settle the second occasion out of court will be better for the railway. Try to think of what you want to say and post it in this thread, and there may be people here who will help you get the words just right.

 

[vijay001]

It won't feel like it, but the railway are trying to be fair to you.

The railway know that anyone can make a mistake once - maybe because they didn't know the rules. But if someone breaks the rules twice, that feels like they know the rules and can't be bothered to follow them. This matters to the railways because if you follow the rules you pay them money: most people who break the rules pay less money, until they are caught.

In your case, you may have broken the rules twice. But instead of treating you as someone who has done that, the railway are waiting for the court to decide whether you really broke the rules the first time. If the court decides you didn't, the railway might decide to treat the second time you were caught just as a mistake.

As it happens, you are leaving the country soon. So it might be worth writing politely to the railway to tell them why letting you settle the second occasion out of court will be better for the railway. Try to think of what you want to say and post it in this thread, and there may be people here who will help you get the words just right.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally request the opportunity to settle my second offence out of court. I understand the seriousness of the matter and deeply regret my actions. I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused and take full responsibility for my mistake.

I was recently informed that a decision regarding my second case will be made after the outcome of my first case in court. However, I would like to highlight that I am a student, and a court conviction could severely impact my future, including my career prospects, immigration opportunities, and my ability to apply for visas to countries such as the United States and Canada. Additionally, I have received an email from the UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI) department instructing me to leave the country, and I have attached proof of this correspondence for your reference. As I am due to leave the UK this month, it would be challenging for me to address this matter at a later date.

Given these circumstances, I am fully prepared to pay any outstanding fare, penalties, and administrative costs required to resolve this matter amicably. I respectfully request your consideration for an out-of-court settlement, allowing me to rectify my mistake without long-term legal consequences.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2025 ==

It won't feel like it, but the railway are trying to be fair to you.

The railway know that anyone can make a mistake once - maybe because they didn't know the rules. But if someone breaks the rules twice, that feels like they know the rules and can't be bothered to follow them. This matters to the railways because if you follow the rules you pay them money: most people who break the rules pay less money, until they are caught.

In your case, you may have broken the rules twice. But instead of treating you as someone who has done that, the railway are waiting for the court to decide whether you really broke the rules the first time. If the court decides you didn't, the railway might decide to treat the second time you were caught just as a mistake.

As it happens, you are leaving the country soon. So it might be worth writing politely to the railway to tell them why letting you settle the second occasion out of court will be better for the railway. Try to think of what you want to say and post it in this thread, and there may be people here who will help you get the words just right.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally request the opportunity to settle my second offence out of court. I understand the seriousness of the matter and deeply regret my actions. I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused and take full responsibility for my mistake.

I was recently informed that a decision regarding my second case will be made after the outcome of my first case in court. However, I would like to highlight that I am a student, and a court conviction could severely impact my future, including my career prospects, immigration opportunities, and my ability to apply for visas to countries such as the United States and Canada. Additionally, I have received an email from the UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI) department instructing me to leave the country, and I have attached proof of this correspondence for your reference. As I am due to leave the UK this month, it would be challenging for me to address this matter at a later date.

Given these circumstances, I am fully prepared to pay any outstanding fare, penalties, and administrative costs required to resolve this matter amicably. I respectfully request your consideration for an out-of-court settlement, allowing me to rectify my mistake without long-term legal consequences.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

Have you already sent that letter? If not, you might want to wait until the forum experts have a look at it.

 

[WesternLancer]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2025 ==


Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally request the opportunity to settle my second offence out of court. I understand the seriousness of the matter and deeply regret my actions. I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused and take full responsibility for my mistake.

I was recently informed that a decision regarding my second case will be made after the outcome of my first case in court. However, I would like to highlight that I am a student, and a court conviction could severely impact my future, including my career prospects, immigration opportunities, and my ability to apply for visas to countries such as the United States and Canada. Additionally, I have received an email from the UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI) department instructing me to leave the country, and I have attached proof of this correspondence for your reference. As I am due to leave the UK this month, it would be challenging for me to address this matter at a later date.

Given these circumstances, I am fully prepared to pay any outstanding fare, penalties, and administrative costs required to resolve this matter amicably. I respectfully request your consideration for an out-of-court settlement, allowing me to rectify my mistake without long-term legal consequences.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely

Yes. Pause 24 hours or so before sending this (they won’t be working at the weekend anyway). I have some amendments to suggest but am not on my computer at the moment and can not easily do them on my phone until tomorrow

Others might also be able suggest a few points to make.

 

[30907]

I am writing to formally request the opportunity to settle my second offence out of court. I understand the seriousness of the matter and deeply regret my actions. I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused

delete - cheating someone is not "inconvenient"

and take full responsibility for my mistake.

It wasn't a mistake. Misjudgement, maybe - or wrongdoing, as you did it deliberately.

I was recently informed that a decision regarding my second case will be made after the outcome of my first case in court. However, I would like to highlight that I am a student, and a court conviction could severely impact my future, including my career prospects, immigration opportunities, and my ability to apply for visas to countries such as the United States and Canada.

Omit this - why should they be sympathetic with someone who has cheated them?

Additionally, I have received an email from the UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI) department instructing me to leave the country, and I have attached proof of this correspondence for your reference. As I am due to leave the UK this month, it would be challenging for me to address this matter at a later date.

Do you need to say why you are leaving? If you have overstayed your visa, that makes you look bad.

Given these circumstances, I am fully prepared to pay any outstanding fare, penalties, and administrative costs required to resolve this matter amicably. I respectfully request your consideration for an out-of-court settlement, allowing me to rectify my mistake without long-term legal consequences.

see above.

Other members may have better suggestions, but this is a start.

 

[vijay001]

delete - cheating someone is not "inconvenient"

It wasn't a mistake. Misjudgement, maybe - or wrongdoing, as you did it deliberately.

Omit this - why should they be sympathetic with someone who has cheated them?

Do you need to say why you are leaving? If you have overstayed your visa, that makes you look bad.

see above.

Other members may have better suggestions, but this is a start.

During October, November I have medical issues and I am facing severe depression and anxiety due to appointment delays and suicidal thoughts should I add this because due to depression I mistakenly taken short ticket at the time I don't have certain conscious. ?

Here is the draft with correction.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally request the opportunity to settle my second offence out of court. I understand the seriousness of the matter and deeply regret my actions. I sincerely apologise for any convenience caused and take full responsibility for my illejudged action.

I was recently informed that a decision regarding my second case will be made after the outcome of my first case in court. However, I would like to highlight that I am a student, and a court conviction could severely impact my future, including my career prospects, immigration opportunities and visas Additionally, my visa expires very soon . As I am due to leave the UK this month and never return back, it would be challenging for me to address this matter at a later date.

Given these circumstances, I am fully prepared to pay any outstanding fare, penalties, and administrative costs required to resolve this matter amicably. I respectfully request your consideration for an out-of-court settlement, allowing me to rectify my actions without long-term legal consequences.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,

 

[Fawkes Cat]

During October, November I have medical issues and I am facing severe depression and anxiety due to appointment delays and suicidal thoughts should I add this because due to depression I mistakenly taken short ticket at the time I don't have certain conscious. ?

As I understand it, you are hoping to resolve matters quickly and simply, before you leave the country. So I would not suggest adding this bit in - it just makes things more complicated and will make everything take longer.

 

[30907]

You need to include the case references. Apart from that, it is fine.

Typo: first para, should be ill-judged.

 

[vijay001]

As I understand it, you are hoping to resolve matters quickly and simply, before you leave the country. So I would not suggest adding this bit in - it just makes things more complicated and will make everything take longer.

Actually I speak to prosecution officer . And he strongly said he taking the case to court. And I said I pay any amount to resolve this issue more quickly and I said my visa also expires soon. But he strongly said after the court decision for case 1 . After he will decide for this case 2. So I need to resolve more quickly. What should I add in draft. Please everyone help me. I don't have anyone to help my situation. So help me guys.

 

[AlterEgo]

It’s quite rare for GTR to insist on taking people to court. Is there anything you’re not telling us?

 

[John R]

It’s quite rare for GTR to insist on taking people to court. Is there anything you’re not telling us?

It might simply be that investigation officers don’t like the subjects of the enquiries phoning up and pleading for a settlement, and so their policy is not to concede anything over the phone.

 

[vijay001]

It’s quite rare for GTR to insist on taking people to court. Is there anything you’re not telling us?

I already told everything with you. On last year may month I caught for short ticket after that I give my old and new address. So I didn't receive any letters for my new address. Many months later January, I speak to my old roommate friend who is staying with me previously . So he send me the letter with court fine and collection letter which stated 450 pounds pay with in January 15 I received letter with my friend after that I call to enforcement customer number. So I called and I reopened the case in court. So coming Wednesday they reopened the case. For 2nd case I said after the 1st case outcome come after that I will decide for case 2 . Thats it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Feb 2025 ==

It might simply be that investigation officers don’t like the subjects of the enquiries phoning up and pleading for a settlement, and so their policy is not to concede anything over the phone.

No actually last week I put mail about my case to prosecution department and he said I will receive letter soon. So I am urgent to leave the country soon that's why I called yesterday with prosecution department customer care asked about my reference number I told everything.and the customer care member said the officer is not agreeing with out of court settlement. So I told I am leaving this country and never return back and told about my situation. And he pass the information to officer after that she told me to call after some times to speak to officer. So later I call to customer care and he transfer the call to prosecution department he told me after the 1st case outcome he decides for 2nd case. This is happened I told everything what happened and what did I did. So help me to settle out court settlement guys please. If it goes to court to will be criminal offense so it will be big problems for Carrer and future visas and immigration.Please read the draft above and give your suggestions to add more points.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Please read the draft above and give your suggestions to add more points.

Quite simply, my advice is not to add any more points. In my opinion, your letter is as good as it is going to get - so send it, and see if the railway are prepared to agree to settle out of court.

 

[vijay001]

Quite simply, my advice is not to add any more points. In my opinion, your letter is as good as it is going to get - so send it, and see if the railway are prepared to agree to settle out of court.

Can you please mention which draft are you mentioning.