Southeastern court summons letter

[teelwolf]

Hi there,

In September 2024, I was stopped at St Pancras by a Revenue Protections Officer for having travelled without a valid ticket. They sent a letter through the post a while later detailing plans to prosecute etc. I followed the advice on this site and sent them a long email to their prosecutions department (admitting my lapse in judgement, and asking them kindly if they'd settle out of court).

They never acknowledged that email (not sure if it was missed?)... but I've now received a court summons letter through the post, with the court date set to 19th March.

I would really like to avoid a criminal conviction and was hoping they would settle out of court but I'm not sure if it is too late for that now? What are my options?

Thank you all in advance for the help!

 

[John R]

It would be helpful if you let us know the circumstances of you being stopped, and also the email you sent asking for a settlement.

We have seen cases where SouthEastern has not seen the response, and you would probably be best advised to resend that email and ask whether it was received and read, but better that we know the full story so that experts on the forum can advise accordingly.

 

[notmyrealname]

Could you show us the paperwork you've had please? Be sure to cover up your name and address and their reference.

 

[teelwolf]

Hi - thanks both for the quick responses!
The email I sent them is below. Essentially I boarded the train, had no ticket and got to St Pancras without one. The officers were waiting before you even get to the barriers, pulled me to one side and took down my details etc. I panicked in that moment and told them I was coming from Stratford hence no pre-booked ticket (stupid of me, I know) but after further quizzing told him the truth that I'd boarded from Canterbury and would have bought a ticket on the train which I've done many times before without issue.

Is it normal for Southeastern to not respond to the email - even to deny the out of court settlement option?

Dear members of staff of Southeastern Railway,

I am responding to your email on 07 October 2024 within the required 21 days with additional information as requested:

Name, DOB etc.

On 26 Sep 2024, I was stopped by a member of Southeastern rail staff at St Pancras station without a ticket. I'd entered the train at Canterbury West in a rush to make my train before it departed the platform as the barriers were open - with the intention of buying a ticket once onboard from the ticket inspector (which I have done in the past without issue). I tried on the SE app too but was unable to as it said it was within "5 mins of the train departing and ticket collection is not possible".

Unfortunately, the ticket inspector never went through the 12 carriages checking tickets and so I arrived at St Pancras without a valid ticket for the journey I'd made. I often book tickets on the day as my travel days are very sporadic so I don't know if/when I will be in London. While I had the best intentions, I do appreciate this is an error and fault on my part, which I apologise for.

I am a long-term Southeastern customer who has spent thousands on SE train fares over the years and certainly not one to intentionally avoid paying a ticket (as I hope you can see from my ticket history).

Once again, I apologise for travelling without a ticket on the day and am more than happy to pay the fare and any administrative costs you've incurred as a result of my mistake. I hope you can take all of this into consideration and offer me the opportunity for an out of court settlement.

Thanks again,
Name

 

[Cuthbert]

Hi - thanks both for the quick responses!
The email I sent them is below. Essentially I boarded the train, had no ticket and got to St Pancras without one. The officers were waiting before you even get to the barriers, pulled me to one side and took down my details etc. I panicked in that moment and told them I was coming from Stratford hence no pre-booked ticket (stupid of me, I know) but after further quizzing told him the truth that I'd boarded from Canterbury and would have bought a ticket on the train which I've done many times before without issue.

Is it normal for Southeastern to not respond to the email - even to deny the out of court settlement option?

Can you post the letter they sent you as well the pros on the forums need to see it for wording.
If you can upload the letter with all personal information redacted.

 

[teelwolf]

This is the letter that I've just received.

I had emailed them on 16th Oct, and just realised they'd responded the very next day with a generic "Thank you for your email relating to your case. The case is being reviewed and you will be contacted via post shortly." and then nothing for months until this letter:

 

[furlong]

"I had no ticket". Are you saying that you presented no ticket at all? So the statement the company has provided to the court contains an untruth where it says that the ticket held was only valid for part of the journey? So you never paid the fare for "a certain distance" and consequently can't be guilty of the offence charged?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2025 ==

(And they don't explain how they calculate £40.80 as the fare avoided either - that would have to take into account the unspecified part-ticket already held, yet the amount matches the the non-HS1 single.)

 

[teelwolf]

I didn't have a ticket at all technically, no - but when I was stopped and questioned by the officer I panicked and said I was paying via contactless and came from Stratford (one stop away) so perhaps that's why they've said "ticket held was only valid for part of the journey"? I don't know where the £40.80 came from though!

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

I didn't have a ticket at all technically, no - but when I was stopped and questioned by the officer I panicked and said I was paying via contactless and came from Stratford (one stop away) so perhaps that's why they've said "ticket held was only valid for part of the journey"? I don't know where the £40.80 came from though!

what do you mean technically? Did you have part of a ticket? Eg Stratford-London? As still not clear. You either have or haven’t had a ticket

 

[furlong]

So you were stopped before the barriers? Did you touch a contactless card on any reader at all? (E.g. a handheld reader when you were stopped?) If so, was any charge taken from the account - how much?
Did you admit to what you were doing immediately? If not, how was it forced out of you?

 

[teelwolf]

So you were stopped before the barriers? Did you touch a contactless card on any reader at all? (E.g. a handheld reader when you were stopped?) If so, was any charge taken from the account - how much?
Did you admit to what you were doing immediately? If not, how was it forced out of you?

Correct! I went to touch the reader he was holding but don't think any charge was taken at all. The officer told me he knew I hadn't come from Stratford as everyone travelling through there was issued with a paper ticket for this day specifically and I then admitted that I had in fact come from Canterbury, wasn't able to buy a ticket on the train for a live journey and panicked in that moment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2025 ==

It would be helpful if you let us know the circumstances of you being stopped, and also the email you sent asking for a settlement.

We have seen cases where SouthEastern has not seen the response, and you would probably be best advised to resend that email and ask whether it was received and read, but better that we know the full story so that experts on the forum can advise accordingly.

Do you think it's worth me emailing them again or hold out for now? Contact a solicitor? I'm conscious about making a mistake.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It's by no means impossible that the railway have decided to prosecute you - what you tell us you did is at least irregular, and often that's all the railway needs to decide to go to court.

But it's also entirely possible that they have got their paperwork in a mess and don't think that you have kept in touch. That can happen in any organisation, and Southeastern have form for this happening.

So I think you need to check out if they have messed up, but you need to be careful not to make them double down on taking you to court. So
- find all the paperwork. Make a note of everything you have sent them, and everything they have sent you: this includes their acknowledgement of 17 October.
- write a very polite email spelling out what has happened: if possible include copies of your email of 16 October and their reply of 17 October. Ask if they could, in the circumstances, consider settling the matter out of court.
- send the very polite email to the address you have. Don't forget to include your name and address, their reference and any reference on the court papers so you make it really easy for them to find the papers and follow things up (remember - the railway can easily leave this with the court so you want to make it easy for them to change their mind in your favour).
- also send a paper copy (hopefully someone here can give you their address). Send that by one of the Royal Mail's 'signed for' services so that you can get confirmation it was delivered.
- wait a few days for a response.

 

[teelwolf]

It's by no means impossible that the railway have decided to prosecute you - what you tell us you did is at least irregular, and often that's all the railway needs to decide to go to court.

But it's also entirely possible that they have got their paperwork in a mess and don't think that you have kept in touch. That can happen in any organisation, and Southeastern have form for this happening.

So I think you need to check out if they have messed up, but you need to be careful not to make them double down on taking you to court. So
- find all the paperwork. Make a note of everything you have sent them, and everything they have sent you: this includes their acknowledgement of 17 October.
- write a very polite email spelling out what has happened: if possible include copies of your email of 16 October and their reply of 17 October. Ask if they could, in the circumstances, consider settling the matter out of court.
- send the very polite email to the address you have. Don't forget to include your name and address, their reference and any reference on the court papers so you make it really easy for them to find the papers and follow things up (remember - the railway can easily leave this with the court so you want to make it easy for them to change their mind in your favour).
- also send a paper copy (hopefully someone here can give you their address). Send that by one of the Royal Mail's 'signed for' services so that you can get confirmation it was delivered.
- wait a few days for a response.

Thank you so much for the help.

I mean - I'm obviously at fault and acknowledge that. I just found it odd that they didn't respond to my email at all (to even reject an out of court settlement) and then the next time I hear is 3 months later with a court date. Is that standard/normal?

I was worried about following up in the email thread without consulting someone and accidentally messing things up. Do you think I need a solicitor or avoid that hefty cost for now?

 

[teelwolf]

I just reached out to a solicitor who apparently has lots of experience with these kind of cases and they quoted £900 to handle this...

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I just reached out to a solicitor who apparently has lots of experience with these kind of cases and they quoted £900 to handle this...

You've got about 5 weeks before you have to go to court. In the circumstances, I think that you've got time to write to the railway and allow them a week to get back to you: I would expect that to be long enough in that in other cases when Southeastern have lost paperwork, they have been very quick (as in a day or two) to get back with an offer when it is drawn to their attention.

If after a week it's still not sorted to how you would like it to be, that still gives you time to go to a solicitor. They will, of course, say that you should have got to them earlier - but that's the same with everyone who's in trade: they prefer to be called in sooner rather than later!

 

[AlterEgo]

I just reached out to a solicitor who apparently has lots of experience with these kind of cases and they quoted £900 to handle this...

There is no need to use a solicitor. Simply write to SouthEastern and ask to settle out of court and for them to withdraw the case; we've seen them mess up their admin many times here (by not acknowledging emails etc) and they basically always settle.

 

[teelwolf]

There is no need to use a solicitor. Simply write to SouthEastern and ask to settle out of court and for them to withdraw the case; we've seen them mess up their admin many times here (by not acknowledging emails etc) and they basically always settle.

Thank you for the reassurance AlterEgo - do you think email is okay or should I send a letter in the post?

 

[WesternLancer]

I just reached out to a solicitor who apparently has lots of experience with these kind of cases and they quoted £900 to handle this...

We had a clutch of cases on here in the immediate New Year period where it became clear that Southeastern had lost the responses people had sent them asking for Out of Court settlements. I reckon chances are they lost yours too

I would advise urgently contacting the railway company prosecutions team (by e-mail with a follow up copy in the tracked post sent via a post office) enclosing what you sent before, asking if they received it, and asking again if they would kindly consider settling the matter without court action. Do this in writing, do not try to phone them.

quote all ref numbers including off the court docs - mention you have just received court docs

Post your draft message here before sending it does not need to be long if you enclose what you sent before

This needs sending to the Railway companies prosecutions dept (do you have the address and e-mail address for SE Trains prosecutions team?) - not their customer services and not the court

Perhaps mark it urgent

I don't think you need a solicitor for this - just speed and well set out message to them - include all your contact details- post - e-mail and phone - make it easy for them to find paperwork, match the case and get back to you.

Essentially you have until 19th March (the court date on the letter if I read it correctly) to sort that with them - so you do have time to get in touch with them and try to resolve it ahead of court - unless there is another court deadline earlier I've not spotted. You must not miss court deadlines however.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you for the reassurance AlterEgo - do you think email is okay or should I send a letter in the post?

I agree with @WesternLancer immediately above. Email and also a tracked letter via the normal mail. We've seen them come back fairly quickly before to settle; this should save you the £900.

 

[Hadders]

I agree with what @WesternLancer and @AlterEgo have said. Southeastern normally offer an out of court settlement in these cases. Although we can't guarantee it, I suspect that they will do so in your case as well once you contact them and explain what has happened.

We saw several similar examples a few weeks ago, to the point where we suspected that Southeastern had changed their prosecution criteria, but as far as I know all of the cases where our advice was sought were resolved by means of a settlement.

 

[teelwolf]

Hi all,

Once again - thank you so much for the help! I've drafted the email below. If people are happy, I'll send this and then print out and post everything together too.

--
Dear members of staff of Southeastern Railway,

[My details]

I am just reaching out again to ensure that my previous correspondence was received regarding an incident that happened on 26th September 2024.

As per your initial letter via post, I responded at the earliest possible opportunity to confirm my personal details and provide greater context - acknowledging my mistake and hoping for an opportunity to pay any fines and administrative costs occurred as a result.

I was told someone would be in contact (see thread below) but did not hear back for the last few months. A couple of days ago - I received a court summons letter (REF: XX, Image attached). I just wanted to ensure that my previous note and cooperation was not missed, and asking kindly whether you would consider allowing me to settle the matter without court action.

Thank you in advance and please let me know if any further information is required.
Regards,
--

Anything missing? I am sending it to the prosecutions.team@southeasternrailway.co.uk email address.

@Hadders @WesternLancer @AlterEgo

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi all,

Once again - thank you so much for the help! I've drafted the email below. If people are happy, I'll send this and then print out and post everything together too.

Anything missing? I am sending it to the prosecutions.team@southeasternrailway.co.uk email address.

@Hadders @WesternLancer @AlterEgo

I'd suggest spelling the dates out in your email so something like (my additions in italics)

--
Dear members of staff of Southeastern Railway,

[My details]

I am just reaching out again to ensure that my previous correspondence was received regarding an incident that happened on 26th September 2024.

As per your initial letter via post, I responded at the earliest possible opportunity on 16 October 2024 to confirm my personal details and provide greater context - acknowledging my mistake and hoping for an opportunity to pay any fines and administrative costs occurred as a result.

I was told in your response of 17 October 2024 that someone would be in contact (see thread below) but did not hear back for the last few months. A couple of days ago - I received a court summons letter (REF: XX, Image attached). I just wanted to ensure that my previous note and cooperation was not missed, and asking kindly whether you would consider allowing me to settle the matter without court action.

Thank you in advance and please let me know if any further information is required.
Regards,
--

And of course make sure that you attach copies of the emails of 16 and 17 October.

 

[jfollows]

- also send a paper copy (hopefully someone here can give you their address). Send that by one of the Royal Mail's 'signed for' services so that you can get confirmation it was delivered.

Southeastern Prosecutions
PO Box 601
ASHFORD
TN23 9XZ

(see attachment in first post at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...cution-letter-no-response-to-my-reply.276985/)

 

[WesternLancer]

I'd suggest spelling the dates out in your email so something like (my additions in italics)



And of course make sure that you attach copies of the emails of 16 and 17 October.

@teelwolf - I agree with Fawkes Cat's suggested amends

• and - yes, enclose copies of what you previously sent them
• and - include clearly how they can contact you (by all means possible - post / phone / e-mail)
• and - send this by post tracked as well as by e-mail
• Put a clear subject line for the e-mail that includes your ref number and something obvious like 'urgent response to receipt of court papers - request to resolve issue'

Make it so they don't even have to go routing through paper or electronic files looking for lost paperwork and can just decide on the basis of what you send them again now. Make things as easy as possible for the person that received your communication to understand what might have happened, make a decision, an reply to you.

Send the e-mail later today, send the printed out and posted copy before mid day tomorrow at a local post office, 1st class and tracked (use the receipt the post master will give you to track delivery)

Good luck - if you don't hear back from them by eg Wednesday or Thursday next week update here so people can suggest other options

 

[teelwolf]

Hi all,

Just wanted to update everyone on the outcome. Turns out it's likely that they did miss my initial emails and have offered me an out of court settlement option. Happy days!

Thank you all for the help, reassurance and saving me from spending £900 on an unnecessary solicitor!

Dear Mr XYZ,

Thank you for your email.

Your last correspondence was received, we are happy to offer you an out of court settlement.

To safeguard the interests of its fare paying customers, Southeastern policy is to prosecute all those who have been reported for fare evasion.

However, I note that this is your first reported offence, a criminal record at this stage of your life could prove to be very detrimental.

It is not our intention or wish to criminalise all first-time offenders, however we will if outstanding debts are not paid.

I am prepared to settle the matter prior to the issue of a Court Summons provided you pay the sum of £40.80 being the fare avoided and a contribution of £150.00 towards our costs to date.

The amount of £190.80 must be paid in full within 21 days of the date of this letter. The case will be withdrawn from the court hearing provided the payment is made by 12th of March 2025

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for letting us know. They keep doing this, I am not sure what is going on there! Good result though.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know the outcome, and good that you've been offered a settlement. Hopefully this is another example of a lost response from the same batch we saw a few weeks back, rather than another lost batch of replies.