Grimsby Town to Newbury Racecourse Delay repay

[Aaron1]

Hi all,
Yesterday 08/02 I travelled from Grimsby Town to Newbury Racecourse and back, booked tickets via split tickets and got a selection of advance singles to cover the entire journey.

Coming back i was booked onto the 18:15 Reading to Stockport Cross-country service which arrived into Stockport 7 mins late so I missed the last train of the night Stockport to Grimsby service as I only had a 6 min change in Stockport, Stockport station staff advised me to take train to Doncaster which I did and speak to staff there, Doncaster station staff who were very healpful tbf and within 10 mins they had arranged and paid for a taxi for me to Grimsby.

Obviously I will claim delay repay from Cross Country I assume as although their train was only 7 mins late it meant I missed my connecting train.

I am aware I get 100% back but I am just wondering how that works? Surely it does not include the outward journey as the outward journey was exclusively done using advance singles? Grimsby to King's Cross advance and then London Underground zone 1 to Newbury Racecourse advance, as that outward part of the journey was not affected i assume the price of those tickets are not repaid? And I will receive 100% of the inbound tickets. (It was part of the same itinerary if that makes a difference)

Another slight complication is that one of the splits was Reading and when I got to Reading I chose to leave the station to get a quick pint before my 18:15 train, I had the time, that paper ticket was swallowed by the ticket barriers so I am missing the Newbury to Reading ticket. I do have the full itinerary on emails still which I can send them, would that be sufficient if I explain the situation?

please advise

Thanks

 

[Stargull]

You should get delay repay for your whole journey back, based on your arrival time in the taxi at Grimsby. As you’re travelling on singles, the outward journey to Newbury is not counted as part of the claim, so if you were delayed by an hour you get 100% of the value of your tickets from Newbury to Grimsby.

You claim from Crosscountry as they delayed you. They should take a booking receipt as evidence of a swallowed ticket - I’ve had good success with them in complicated circumstances when instead of using the online form I have emailed customer.relations@crosscountrytrains.co.uk attaching copies of tickets, bookings etc.

 

[Watershed]

Your claim is indeed for 100% of the cost of your Newbury to Grimsby tickets, even though they were split tickets. Your Grimsby to Newbury outward singles won't count towards your return journey's Delay Repay claim. Of course, if you were on a return ticket then you would get more compensation if the delay were 120+ mins - not that it's an option any more for most journeys involving LNER.

As for the missing ticket, the booking confirmation would probably be accepted, but really you should have asked the staff at Reading to retain the ticket (I often either say it's for Delay Repay or for an expenses claim and that rarely gets challenged). If your Newbury to Reading ticket was a walk-up ticket then you could somewhat understand if XC said they won't pay compensation for this part of the journey - they could argue there's no way for them to be sure you haven't refunded the ticket (or won't do so after making your Delay Repay claim).

They could also argue that having left the station at Reading, it no longer constituted a through journey. I'm not saying they'd necessarily be correct, but for the sake of the ~£8 odd compensation (assuming you had an Off-Peak Day Single from Newbury to Reading) it's probably not worth arguing over.

 

[yorkie]

I agree with the above.

A few things to note:

• e-tickets (where available; not applicable to this cross-London journey... yet) can make it easier, however if you are using paper tickets, my advice would always be to photograph the complete set of tickets before the journey begins, or on the first train. That way, if any tickets get retained/lost, you still have a record of them
• if you break your journey, this can add complexities and ambiguities, which can be best avoided.
• Straightforward Delay Repay claims that are completed correctly and promptly tend to be promptly paid, usually without quibble
• Complicated DR claims can take a long time to process, may be questioned/disputed, and may involve a lot of faff to get what you are due; therefore, if excluding some tickets that are lost and/or where complexities/ambiguities occur does not reduce the value of the claim significantly, it may be better to take the hit.

 

[redreni]

Sounds like a good idea for the OP not to mention to CrossCountry that he broke his journey.

What CrossCountry cannot do (though who knows, they might try) is maintain that because the OP passed through the ticket barriers, that automatically means he must have broken his journey. There are other reasons for passing through those barriers, such as going for a smoke or vape or popping to the M&S Simply Food (which is on the station concourse but outside the ticket barriers).

I would suggest, therefore, saying as little as possible about this. They may just accept the booking confirmation in lieu of the ticket. If they ask why you don't have the ticket, say the barrier took it. If they ask why you passed through the barrier when you were only there to change trains, you could say something like "to get to the concourse" (which is presumably true, even if that wasn't your ultimate objective).

 

[Haywain]

I think much of the discussion about a break of journey is irrelevant. The OP has not told us which train was taken from Newbury Racecourse to Reading, but if it was a train which arrived at Reading after 17:15 there is no break of journey (I'm guessing that after the last race the OP was on the 17:09 or 17:16 departure from Newbury Racecourse). Instead, there is a matter of killing time (30 to 45 minutes) between arriving at Reading and departing on the booked 18:15 train with no earlier departure available, even if the ticket allowed it. It is no business of the railway how the OP goes about killing that time. In this case the OP chose to "leave the station to get a quick pint" while using tickets that allowed that. It appears to me that it is being suggested that the OP should have killed time at Newbury Racecourse station instead, which is nonsensical and may have exposed them to a greater delay.

 

[Hadders]

I think much of the discussion about a break of journey is irrelevant. The OP has not told us which train was taken from Newbury Racecourse to Reading, but if it was a train which arrived at Reading after 17:15 there is no break of journey (I'm guessing that after the last race the OP was on the 17:09 or 17:16 departure from Newbury Racecourse). Instead, there is a matter of killing time (30 to 45 minutes) between arriving at Reading and departing on the booked 18:15 train with no earlier departure available, even if the ticket allowed it. It is no business of the railway how the OP goes about killing that time. In this case the OP chose to "leave the station to get a quick pint" while using tickets that allowed that. It appears to me that it is being suggested that the OP should have killed time at Newbury Racecourse station instead, which is nonsensical and may have exposed them to a greater delay.

Agreed! I wouldn't draw attention to the fact that the OP left the station but it shouldn't really impact the outcome. Using the boioking confirmation is a good way of doing this.

Out of interest, I'm making a journey today which involves a six hour wait between trains all on a through Advance ticket. I think it would be unreasonable for me to have to stay on the cold station for so long!

 

[Haywain]

I wouldn't draw attention to the fact that the OP left the station but it shouldn't really impact the outcome.

I'll stress again that it is my opinion that it doesn't matter in the slightest if no train was missed in the process. The OP had a long journey ahead of them and there is no logical reason why they should not obtain refreshment (and/or provisions for the journey) at a location of their choosing. The only detail of importance is that they were at the station again for the departure of the next leg of their journey.

 

[canary fan]

Hi

Sounds like a good idea for the OP not to mention to CrossCountry that he broke his journey.

What CrossCountry cannot do (though who knows, they might try) is maintain that because the OP passed through the ticket barriers, that automatically means he must have broken his journey. There are other reasons for passing through those barriers, such as going for a smoke or vape or popping to the M&S Simply Food (which is on the station concourse but outside the ticket barriers).

I would suggest, therefore, saying as little as possible about this. They may just accept the booking confirmation in lieu of the ticket. If they ask why you don't have the ticket, say the barrier took it. If they ask why you passed through the barrier when you were only there to change trains, you could say something like "to get to the concourse" (which is presumably true, even if that wasn't your ultimate objective).

While the pub the OP visited is outside the ticket barriers, everything on the concourse, including M&S food is inside them. You simply have to walk along platform 7.

 

[Belperpete]

The amount of information that you need to give in the initial claim is very limited: your planned itinerary, the length of delay suffered, and details of the tickets held. With the various TOCs that I have dealt with, if you claim using their online form, there is no way of volunteering extraneous information.

In this case, it might be worth claiming by email so that the OP can provide alternative proof of the ticket held. And also to explain about what happened at Stockport and Doncaster, and what time he finally arrived back in Grimsby,, as the DR system will know nothing about that. But otherwise, provide the information required by the online form.

 

[Aaron1]

Thanks all for the replies.

I emailed Cross Country, I explained that one ticket was swallowed by the ticket barriers at Reading, which i don't feel should be questioned.

I followed my itinerary as booked, this included a 34 minute wait at Reading, in that time I decided to head for a quick pint, which is ample enough time to do this, what I do during waits for trains is up to me and there are no rules or regulations to state I must remain on the station premises. The facts are I had enough time to do that, I chose to do that and I was at the station in time again to board the 18:15 service as per my itinerary, that's what my advance fare was held for so i had no choice but to board this train. So I don't see how I chose to pass the time away whilst waiting for my booked service being a potential blocker for delay repay. Whether I stayed in station or not, I would have still been delayed going into Stockport!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thanks all for the replies.

I emailed Cross Country, I explained that one ticket was swallowed by the ticket barriers at Reading, which i don't feel should be questioned.

I followed my itinerary as booked, this included a 34 minute wait at Reading, in that time I decided to head for a quick pint, which is ample enough time to do this, what I do during waits for trains is up to me and there are no rules or regulations to state I must remain on the station premises. The facts are I had enough time to do that, I chose to do that and I was at the station in time again to board the 18:15 service as per my itinerary, that's what my advance fare was held for so i had no choice but to board this train. So I don't see how I chose to pass the time away whilst waiting for my booked service being a potential blocker for delay repay. Whether I stayed in station or not, I would have still been delayed going into Stockport!

It seems to me that the obvious option for getting a drink at Reading is the 3 Guineas, which while outside the barrier line is physically part of the station (it's the oldest surviving ticket hall on the station site*). Practically speaking, unless Cross Country are being deliberately obtuse (which isn't impossible) I wouldn't expect an issue - as you split your tickets at Reading I don't see how it could be argued you were breaking the conditions on any tickets (assuming those conditions to include 'no break of journey': although your journey continued beyond Reading, the validity of the ticket from Newbury ended there and it would be hard for the railway to argue that the Newbury ticket's conditions continued to apply after that element of the journey had finished. The same (with the obvious changes) for the ticket from Reading about its conditions applying before that leg of the journey began.)

And even so, it's not as if you were fitting in some sort of appointment at Reading (looking at the copy of the Bayeux Tapestry in the museum, or paying your respects to the late Henry I or something) but filling in time.

*Deliberately vague phrasing as someone who knows is bound to be along in a minute if IK Brunel's station had an even earlier ticket hall

 

[redreni]

It's not a breach of the terms and conditions of any of the tickets to break the journey at Reading, it would merely open up a debate one wouldn't want to have with a TOC, if one could help it, about whether delay repay should apply to the through journey or only part of it.

FWIW I don't think having a pint as the OP describes while waiting for a connection is a break of journey. If a swifter connection had been possible, there would have been no wait and no pint. So I agree with @Haywain that leaving the station is immaterial in this case.

It only cropped up because the OP said he'd broken his journey, hence the advice given by several of us that it would be better not to say that to the TOC!

 

[Aaron1]

Just an update on this.
I emailed Cross Country, they advised me to make a claim on their portal uploading the booking confirmation, in which i did, this was rejected, so their customer service advised me to appeal it explaining why I uploaded the booking confirmation and it would be accepted, I duly did that but once again it was declined with no option of appeal, their customer service advised me to resubmit a fresh claim, which also has just been rejected as it is a duplicate! Also with no option of appeal!

I am going to give their customer service tomorrow to get this sorted, if not I will be making a formal complaint as they are advising me to do things, in which I am only for the claim to be rejected!

Not very impressed currently

 

[yorkie]

Just an update on this.
I emailed Cross Country, they advised me to make a claim on their portal uploading the booking confirmation, in which i did, this was rejected, so their customer service advised me to appeal it explaining why I uploaded the booking confirmation and it would be accepted, I duly did that but once again it was declined with no option of appeal, their customer service advised me to resubmit a fresh claim, which also has just been rejected as it is a duplicate! Also with no option of appeal!

I am going to give their customer service tomorrow to get this sorted, if not I will be making a formal complaint as they are advising me to do things, in which I am only for the claim to be rejected!

Not very impressed currently

There are insufficient safeguards in place at train companies such as CrossCountry, to ensure that passengers are not wrongly denied valid Delay Repay claims.

As well as lodging a formal complaint, you can refer the matter to the Rail Ombudsman, however not until either 40 working days after XC received your claim, or alternatively if XC give a response that indicates you are in deadlock.

I'd argue that having had so many rejections from XC, you should in theory be able to go to the Ombudsman right now, but the system isn't fit for purpose and I wouldn't trust the Ombudsman to accept that, so you could ask XC if you are in deadlock and, depending on what XC say, you may be able to go straight to the Ombudsman without having to wait a ridiculous 40 working days.

The entire system is not fit for purpose and appears to be based around putting people off making claims.

 

[Thames99]

Hi

While the pub the OP visited is outside the ticket barriers, everything on the concourse, including M&S food is inside them. You simply have to walk along platform 7.

There is at least one kiosk on Platform 7, but M&S Food is definitely outside the barriers in the booking hall

 

[Aaron1]

Another update on this, more positive one this time

A customer service assistant replied to me yesterday stating she appealed the claim on my account on my behalf and that this appeal had been accepted, once the acceptance comes through and shows on my account, I should have the money in 10 working days from then, she also stated how much I should receive and that also tallies up to my own calculations, so there might be an end to this saga.

It's not come through on my account yet so will give them until end of next week for this. I'm in no rush now as it seems I might be getting somewhere.