London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[northofthesand]

Your comment is very much about 'doing things right' rather than 'doing the right thing'. Surely, thi thread is not about how staff make the best of this new policy to introduce 'free food for all' but how passengers, especially those on lomg jpurneys, can opt to be fed well.

A complementary snack would meet your intention not to have waste but if the intention is to provide a meal then the policy you would seem to support poses a problem. Do you give everyone their 'entitlement' and risk waste or do you ration and risk having hungry (and therefore very dissatisfied) passengers on more than short journeys?

If what is provided as 'enttlement' does not satisfy my requirements for calories and enjoyable eating and there is not good opportunity to buy what I want, then I have two options:

1) I make other travel arrangements
2) I buy food and bring this into the FC seating

I am due to make two trips to London in the next two weeks:

- I'm opting for the first to go by air for one of those, leaving Edinburgh at the very comfortable 8.50am (and leaving home about 7.45am) rather than about 90 mins earlie; getting home at a reasonable hour on the return.

- I was keen to travel down by train for the second, as my partner is keen to do so, and its a special occasion so I want the experience to be special. Do I buy a hamper and eat its contents on board in the FC carriages, and then be polite when offered two (or four) complementary sandwiches for the 4.45 hr journey?
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I've always travelled with East Coast beforehand - for the meal and the habit of it, but this comparison of a mid/late afternoon getaway from London may be instructive.

From some arbitary point in central London, there is the choice of travelling to an airport or going to Kings Cross for the train (with probably less travel time and saving at least 45 minutes of 'process time' at an airport).

At 15.30/16.00, I'm not hungry but if my journey time is anything up to 5 hours then I wont get to Edinburgh until about 8.30pm and unless distracted by something else interesting I will be hungry by then.

I think I may now give Virgin a try if EC do not promise to feed me well.

Your having some fun with that photo Ed since acquiring it,maybe we can incorporate it into your epitath when you've gone

 

[Failed Unit]

It does make you think why the MPs are so quite about this downgrade. This is much worse than anything national express did, at least an alternative was provided by national express. At the time you got all the "greedy private bus company this" but now this is goverment owned the worse downgrade in history of the route is going unnoticed. The savings are very dubious as this new offer needs more staff and food (when they can be bothered to provide it)

 

[StrollerEd]

Your having some fun with that photo Ed since acquiring it,maybe we can incorporate it into your epitath when you've gone

I think I'll remove it from the sig.

But I and the photo promise to be gone if and when there is good food to be had in trains of choice on the East coast line - whatever the TOC.

As for epitath:

"he finally had his chips"

"Tattie for now"

"Steak driven no more"
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Are the following Saturday EC trains each serving good breakfasts in FC on the 07.30, 08.00, 08.30, 09.00 from Edinburgh to allow disembark at York?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
and how would that compare with the offering from the other TOCs at about that time?

 

[YorkshireRider]

No hot food in FC on a weekend im afraid, just tea, coffee, biscuits, soft drinks and at breakfast a cold croissant, either ham or cheese+tom or after 11am a choice of 2 sandwiches, crisps and sweet treat. You can still go to the buffet for bacon toasties and panninis. This is still better than other TOCs at weekends i believe, but willing to be corrected on that.

 

[StrollerEd]

No hot food in FC on a weekend im afraid, just tea, coffee, biscuits, soft drinks and at breakfast a cold croissant, either ham or cheese+tom or after 11am a choice of 2 sandwiches, crisps and sweet treat. You can still go to the buffet for bacon toasties and panninis. This is still better than other TOCs at weekends i believe, but willing to be corrected on that.

thanks. I guess that as long as I know that I dont expect more, dsappointment being function of expectation and all that.

 

[Failed Unit]

No hot food in FC on a weekend im afraid, just tea, coffee, biscuits, soft drinks and at breakfast a cold croissant, either ham or cheese+tom or after 11am a choice of 2 sandwiches, crisps and sweet treat. You can still go to the buffet for bacon toasties and panninis. This is still better than other TOCs at weekends i believe, but willing to be corrected on that.

It is, FGW have no at seat service at weekends you just need to present your ticket at the buffet. Virgin were the same last time I travelled at the weekend. Xc are dire all the time.

The at seat offer previously (as in freshly cooked) was on very few weekend trains.

 

[StrollerEd]

and now I ask about the 18:51 from York to Edinburgh on a Monday. Is this the 17.00 from London Kings Cross, and what chance of boarding at York and getting a hot meal - or anything in FC?

We would have set off from West of Plymouth and so unless we feast on the train into York we will be hungry - and so you get the picture ...

 

[AlterEgo]

It is, FGW have no at seat service at weekends you just need to present your ticket at the buffet. Virgin were the same last time I travelled at the weekend.

On most trains Virgin will have an at-seat service of crisps, biscuits and drinks (no alcohol). On some trains you do have to go to the Shop though if there are no on-board crew rostered.

 

[Failed Unit]

On most trains Virgin will have an at-seat service of crisps, biscuits and drinks (no alcohol). On some trains you do have to go to the Shop though if there are no on-board crew rostered.

Probably had one of those, it wasnt exactly well loaded so it was a trek to the shop.
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and now I ask about the 18:51 from York to Edinburgh on a Monday. Is this the 17.00 from London Kings Cross, and what chance of boarding at York and getting a hot meal - or anything in FC?

We would have set off from West of Plymouth and so unless we feast on the train into York we will be hungry - and so you get the picture ...

Based on observation you should get the full meal, last week people heading to Newcastle were, didnt see anyone disappointed in coach L. It will still be Salmon fillet. Just make sure it is the 1851 you board and not the 1630 ex London or you will be very very Hungry.

 

[ainsworth74]

Probably had one of those, it wasnt exactly well loaded so it was a trek to the shop.

I have a feeling that the at-seat service doesn't exist at all on the extremities of Virgin's network, for instance I have a feeling few if any trains have first class hosts north of Preston/Carlise on weekends.

Just make sure it is the 1851 you board and not the 1630 ex London or you will be very very Hungry.

Indeed seeing as from my experience yesterday that service didn't even offer any sort of hot food at all. Though the cakes were at least nice.

 

[StrollerEd]

the cakes were at least nice.

in the Marie Antonette wagon?

 

[ainsworth74]

in the Marie Antonette wagon?

I didn't think of that connection

 

[blackfive460]

Did York - Kings Cross and back FC last week on my way to Germany.
Two sandwiches both ways which I didn't bother with coming back as I'd had a meal beforehand already knowing what to expect.
Had a friendly chat about it all with the steward who gave me a very generous glass of wine on the 16:00 ex KGX on Friday. He was, quite understandably, fairly non-committal but did mention problems with suppliers meaning that they may not get re-stocked on the way, hence just two sandwiches to ensure that passengers joining further north didn't go completely hungry.
He did ask me what I thought about it and seemed to expect my response of bring back the at seat dining menu and suggested I email a complaint, which I have.
My email got this auto-reply:

Your feedback about our new First Class service is very valuable to us.
We will be monitoring this in box and we will ensure that your comments, both good and bad, are sent to the appropriate members of the East Coast team who are reviewing the new service.

If you require further assistant or a response please contact East
Coast's Customer Relations Team on: customers@eastcoast.co.uk

I doubt I'll hear any more about my suggestion for an all-day breakfast!

 

[StrollerEd]

someone has suggested that EC has undermined their Brand. I think that may be something that the Senior Management at EC might understand. EC inherited the loyalty that GNER had generated with its Brand whose value to customers had been highlighted by the First experience.

The bottom line of financial savings clearly is important but Brand matters for market share when customers clearly have a choice

 

[Blindtraveler]

tried weekend all day FC yesturday ABD - EDB - sandwitches quite tasty, good attentive staff. If been offered same again for longer run to the cross I doubt i'd be so happy.

As fas as brand being undermined I think that the current setup on EC is wripe for virgin to come in with a new franchise and a similar offer to west coast. Ok its not the restauraunt as we new it but its certainly dinner when you want it and maybe, depending on popularitty, hot food at weekends?

 

[Furrball]

Well I am doing London-Inverness and return in the next couple of days. I will try and report back on this.

 

[StrollerEd]

As fas as brand being undermined I think that the current setup on EC is wripe for virgin to come in with a new franchise and a similar offer to west coast. Ok its not the restauraunt as we new it but its certainly dinner when you want it and maybe, depending on popularitty, hot food at weekends?

that seems right on the button

I think EC would do well to bring back the Diner Car for flagship runs and ensure that all FC can go visit the Buffet and sit close by.

They need some USP else its Virgin all the way

 

[Blindtraveler]

even hot, all be it microwaved food available for purchase to fc customers on weekends would maybe bring back the customers? Personally if say I'd been seeing family and came back during the day on a sunday, i'd be happy with the offering but know some wouldnt.

 

[Red Dragon]

Travelled LDS to KGX on Friday and experienced the new First Class service for the first time.
Well my comments are much the same as many others, staff were friendly, and they were also interested to discover the new service was being discussed on the web.
There are obviously teething problems with Rail Gourmet, and also difficulty in forecasting the quantity of food needed on board. Hence, perhaps, the reluctance to dish out the sarnies. Overall the meal was not a meal - simply a snack, (I had the all day offering of sandwiches).
I shall very much miss the silver service steak with a bottle of the red infuriator. This is a serious downgrade in IMHO.
Travelling Leeds to Aberdeen in a couple of weeks, will be intrested to see if there are any changes, hopefully Rail Gourmet will not continue to chill the red infuriator !

 

[Furrball]

In brief, my experiences today from London to Inverness

Tea and coffee served just after departure (12:00)

Drinks trolley through at 12:30

Food offered at 12:40 - unfortunately as expected nothing took my fancy on the menu (I will admit I am a fussy eater). Other passengers were also heard to complain. The staff advised me to complain and not get listened to like everyone else who had complained previously

Tea and Coffee again at 14.10

Alcohol through the train on leaving Edinburgh, along with the option of a plain ham sandwich which I took (it was noted later that all of these sandwiches had gone leaving a lot of the others)

This is an incomplete listing but other observations were:

The menus on the tables are unclear as they contain all of the options. A clear announcement from the crew after each station stop would help. Alternatively, rather than have all this in booklet form why not have the booklet detailing all of the how wonderful we are etc and just have menu cards for the actual food? Saves pulping a load of perfectly good paper when a simple change is made?

On the Inverness service you have the option of the same hot meal twice - poor.

The sugar was just loose on the table, not in any form of holder and looked very untidy. At no point was this replenished unless you asked.

Tea and Coffee was only offered 5 times in an 8 hour plus journey - to me this is not acceptable. Once an hour would be expected. If they put milk sachets on the tables they would eliminate the need for an additional member of staff required to carry the milk jug.

A passenger walked into Coach J and asked if it was possible to get another glass of wine at 18.45. He was advised that he would have to pay for it. Where in the EC press does it state that the complimentary offers stop when the trolley is no longer coming through the train? Also, 18:45 is still well over an hour before arrival into Inverness. Also, later the member of staff that was asked was heard discussing with a colleague that a passenger had 'bothered' here for a glass of wine. This is very unprofessional. She was not 'bothered' - the passenger asked. And she should not have had such a conversation in earshot of other passengers.

Coach J on the HST is completely impractical as the Quiet Coach. The constant flow of staff serving first class, the clatter of their trolleys, their continual talking AND shouting along with the general noise that can be heard from the buffet counter all make for a not very quiet coach. I understand the logic - it being a small space and there being no power sockets but quiet it is not.

 

[StrollerEd]

Thanks for the report.

In brief, my experiences today from London to Inverness


<snip>

The constant flow of staff serving first class, the clatter of their trolleys, their continual talking AND shouting along with the general noise that can be heard from the buffet counter all make for a not very quiet coach. I understand the logic - it being a small space and there being no power sockets but quiet it is not.

This is a key aspect of my unhappiness with the new arrangement. And end to the peace and quiet that I expect for a FC ticket - and without which there is insufficient reason for travelling FC.

 

[Anon Mouse]

sounds like it is just as bad as I thought.

I have concerns that due to the complementary food being advertised as an 'offer' (station announcements) which suggests that its not permanant, so maybe when they realise they are loosing money they may restrict it or even curtail it. I also feel abit annoyed with some of the advertising suggesting that all passengers get the complimentary scran.

I feel that the standard class catering has totally deteriated especially since standard class passengers can no longer choose to buy a decent square meal.

 

[38Cto15E]

Furball
Thanks very much for the Chieftain report, I am on it in a couple of weeks time and this just makes me want to stock up in M&S before boarding for the 8 hour journey.

Hopefully your journey back will be better, assuming that you will be returning by Highland Chieftain service.

 

[142094]

I can't really see any benefit of doing first class for long journeys again, as I've done in the past for a treat. Probably will restrict myself to times when a 1st advance is just about the same price as a standrad advance.

 

[Captain Chaos]

The more I read these reports the more put off I am from using 1st class on EC again. Very dissapointing report regarding the Chieftain. I would have thought they would have offered the afternoon tea selection from KGX to EDB and then from EDB to INV offer the Evening Meal option. That's how I would do it anyway given the current options. A service like this NEEDS a proper meal service IMO.

It's a real shame. I love travelling on the Chieftain. It's almost certainly my favourite service to travel on. But is this really is going to be the norm then I will be going STD in future and bringing supplies with me before I board. The only exception would be if the 1st advance is only slightly more than the STD advance. Then it would be worth it if only for the tea and coffee. Other than that there doesn't seem to be much point now.

 

[Furrball]

Furball
Thanks very much for the Chieftain report, I am on it in a couple of weeks time and this just makes me want to stock up in M&S before boarding for the 8 hour journey.

Hopefully your journey back will be better, assuming that you will be returning by Highland Chieftain service.

Back tomorrow on it!! So get to sample the breakfast - but same old rubbish for lunch.

As the northbound service sits at Edinburgh for over 10 mins if anyone is doing it that has a friend in Edinburgh get them to bring you a BK or McD's (or any other fast food) to you to pick up from them - better than what is served at present

On an unrelated but related note I recall there is a thread on here regarding no shows - well 50% of the seats in coach J remained empty on departure from KX - all were reserved from there.
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Oh, one other thing - the trolleys that they are using on the train seem to be very unstable - at least two of them ended up on their side today. One was empty (had been left by the crew cupboard at the 1st class end of J (naughty as it was unsecured). Another one went over outside the kitchen not far out of KX

 

[YorkshireRider]

In brief, my experiences today from London to Inverness

Tea and coffee served just after departure (12:00)

Drinks trolley through at 12:30

Food offered at 12:40 - unfortunately as expected nothing took my fancy on the menu (I will admit I am a fussy eater). Other passengers were also heard to complain. The staff advised me to complain and not get listened to like everyone else who had complained previously

Tea and Coffee again at 14.10

Alcohol through the train on leaving Edinburgh, along with the option of a plain ham sandwich which I took (it was noted later that all of these sandwiches had gone leaving a lot of the others)

This is an incomplete listing but other observations were:

The menus on the tables are unclear as they contain all of the options. A clear announcement from the crew after each station stop would help. Alternatively, rather than have all this in booklet form why not have the booklet detailing all of the how wonderful we are etc and just have menu cards for the actual food? Saves pulping a load of perfectly good paper when a simple change is made?

On the Inverness service you have the option of the same hot meal twice - poor.

The sugar was just loose on the table, not in any form of holder and looked very untidy. At no point was this replenished unless you asked.

Tea and Coffee was only offered 5 times in an 8 hour plus journey - to me this is not acceptable. Once an hour would be expected. If they put milk sachets on the tables they would eliminate the need for an additional member of staff required to carry the milk jug.

A passenger walked into Coach J and asked if it was possible to get another glass of wine at 18.45. He was advised that he would have to pay for it. Where in the EC press does it state that the complimentary offers stop when the trolley is no longer coming through the train? Also, 18:45 is still well over an hour before arrival into Inverness. Also, later the member of staff that was asked was heard discussing with a colleague that a passenger had 'bothered' here for a glass of wine. This is very unprofessional. She was not 'bothered' - the passenger asked. And she should not have had such a conversation in earshot of other passengers.

Coach J on the HST is completely impractical as the Quiet Coach. The constant flow of staff serving first class, the clatter of their trolleys, their continual talking AND shouting along with the general noise that can be heard from the buffet counter all make for a not very quiet coach. I understand the logic - it being a small space and there being no power sockets but quiet it is not.

There is a lot wrong with the offer on longer journeys however is it really required to have 8 cups of tea in 8 hours, would you have that at home/work? Fresh milk makes a difference to the taste and would have complaints if it was withdrawn as NX did but brought back due to volume of complaints, you dont like a few sugar sachets loose on the table but are fine with milk jiggers cluttering it up? The drinks trolley with alchohol should have been through after departure from London and Newcastle and i cant believe that wasnt the case. This train is very busy most days and especially Mondays, its likley it will have been close to full in FC which means service may suffer a bit, they should wind the FC advance quotas in on this service Mon and Fri, they are too many. Agreed coach J is stupid for quiet coach but then again a quiet coach in FC when there are only 3 (2 and a bit on HST) coaches is a bloody stupid anyway and should be withdrawn. Once again i agree that the offer is a bit crap for journeys of 4+ hours but you have to have a structured journey plan to deliver the offer especially when it is busy as your service undoubtedly would have been today and you cannot always meet individual requests for drinks/food at certain times, you would be run ragged and it wouldnt work.

 

[jon0844]

God this seems to be getting worse, not better. I wonder if the combination of a bad setup and people complaining repeatedly (with good reason, it would seem) is making the staff all but give up? I do feel sorry for them, and it seems a lot of people are complaining if they're so quick to tell people to write in. They're obviously doing that because they're not happy trying to provide this new service any more than the people receiving it.

If so, EC has really shot itself in the foot.

How ironic they just emailed me to invite me to enter a competition to win a year of FC travel! Mind you, when I first clicked on the link, it rejected me and said I did not have permission to view the page!! I doubt they can blame that on Rail Gourmet!

Upon a later, successful, entry, I have been told I will receive 20% off advanced FC ticket vouchers shortly. So, they seem very keen to get people to try out FC.. when, to me, I'd be trying everything NOT to get people to try it out right now!

 

[Furrball]

There is a lot wrong with the offer on longer journeys however is it really required to have 8 cups of tea in 8 hours, would you have that at home/work?

No (actually my girlfriend would), but not everyone wants a cup of tea at the same time. There should certainly be another run before arrival in Inverness - the train is not that busy at this time. Also, the cold drinks run was made not that long after tea and coffee was offered at one point in the journey - to the point that I still had tea left but given the unknown nature of the service I was not going to pass on the cold one as when the next run through would occur was unknown.

Fresh milk makes a difference to the taste and would have complaints if it was withdrawn as NX did but brought back due to volume of complaints, you dont like a few sugar sachets loose on the table but are fine with milk jiggers cluttering it up?

A small ceramic container holding sugar and milk sachets would not clog up the table. The milk in the 'straw' is perfectly acceptable for most other operators it would seem. Is 1 person carrying a milk jug a sensible use of resource?

The drinks trolley with alchohol should have been through after departure from London and Newcastle and i cant believe that wasnt the case.

This 'report' is incomplete - I was very poor and forgot my pen and paper and my phone really was not happy so not everything was noted - will be better prepared tomorrow

This train is very busy most days and especially Mondays, its likley it will have been close to full in FC which means service may suffer a bit, they should wind the FC advance quotas in on this service Mon and Fri, they are too many.

All 1st class seats were full be 50% no show in J and certainly seemed to be other seats free in 1st

Agreed coach J is stupid for quiet coach but then again a quiet coach in FC when there are only 3 (2 and a bit on HST) coaches is a bloody stupid anyway and should be withdrawn. Once again i agree that the offer is a bit crap for journeys of 4+ hours but you have to have a structured journey plan to deliver the offer especially when it is busy as your service undoubtedly would have been today and you cannot always meet individual requests for drinks/food at certain times, you would be run ragged and it wouldnt work.[/QUOTE]
Was it really that bad before the changes? Were there many complaints? If the offer is crap for 4hr+ journeys then it is wrong - stop trying to use the same logic for all services and adjust it for the Aberdeen and Inverness services to offer what the CUSTOMER wants - not what is easiest to deliver. Additional food is taken on board at Edinburgh - would it be impossible not to load alternate food here?

On a plus note I will say that the cold drinks were indeed cold - something that was not always the case previously!

YorkshireRider can you comment on the issue towards the end of the journey with the complementary service simply being stopped without communication not any apparent documentation that this would be the case?

 

[ainsworth74]

A small ceramic container holding sugar and milk sachets would not clog up the table. The milk in the 'straw' is perfectly acceptable for most other operators it would seem. Is 1 person carrying a milk jug a sensible use of resource?

EC do have a little container that holds the sugar so if it was missing only from your seat that would suggest that it got broken or lost and either no-one on the crew noticed during the turnaround or they couldn't hold of a spare. Did you mention it to any of the crew? If it was missing from all the seats then I guess they weren't loaded onto the train at the start of the day perhaps?

As for the milk you make it sound as if the person bringing the milk only does that. The truth of the matter is that they will carry the milk and then carry out other duties required on-board. In my experience the person that brings the milk round also runs one of the trollies. So if you went over to sachets of milk you wouldn't be getting rid of a member of staff and seeing as they can't be constantly wheeling the trolley around they might as well bring fresh milk for teas and coffees.