Note that I posted: "Given that most charging at home (whether on a public lampost/bollard or an a private charger) will be overnight ...". This for a normal street, there will unlikely be many issues, except for those that already pervade. There's also the likelihood of less car ownership, particularly in urban areas, - a welcome trend.
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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
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WelshBluebird
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Once again the on street charging discussion ignores the fact that a lot of people don't have to charge at home. They can charge at work, at the supermarket during the weekly shop, whilst parked up at a multistory when they have gone somewhere etc. Sure that's not going to be for everyone, but that's the thing with EV charging - you don't need one solution for everyone, you can mix and match.
While I can charge at home, for a car I currently fill up about every four weeks (and does around 350 miles per tank), I guess I'll be charging maybe every three weeks on average.
If I couldn't charge at home, I'm sure I could spare the additional few minutes to charge a battery over filling up a fuel tank - especially if I'm free to do something else for that 20-30 minutes.
Most people aren't making multiple stops in a day to charge. Many are not even charging daily (but might do so for convenience to start each day with a 'full tank'). Some would think every EV owner can only park somewhere they can charge.
If I couldn't charge at home, I'm sure I could spare the additional few minutes to charge a battery over filling up a fuel tank - especially if I'm free to do something else for that 20-30 minutes.
Most people aren't making multiple stops in a day to charge. Many are not even charging daily (but might do so for convenience to start each day with a 'full tank'). Some would think every EV owner can only park somewhere they can charge.
For some who are doing about 20 miles each work day (which is a little more than 350 miles over 4 weeks of it's a 5 day working week), they could be better off with an e-bike, at they typically do 25 to 40 miles with little to no peddling. If that distance is anything less than about 8 miles a work day, then I would question just how much each mile is costing them and ask them if they think it's worth that cost (the answer might be yes, but not all that many know the full cost of their car).
Pair an e-bike with access to a car club car (for longer trips or bulky loads - which are far fewer than many fear) and it reduces the need for car ownership (especially second cars).
For many urban areas travel time by bike at peak time isn't much different to driving, and if you do some peddling you would be fitter (so less time needed going to the gym or exercise classes to stay healthy) which could result in a time saving for some.
Lots of people own a car because that's what they've done before, rarely (if ever) considering if other options could actually be viable (again the answer could be that no the other options aren't).
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Agreed. Its the same number and size of cars. Obviously if there are empty EV only spaces on a road then an ICE driver will struggle to find a space, that is the only loss of space I can envisage. There needs to be enough EV spaces to mean that they do not need to be EV only (that problem goes away when there are no ICEs left).
It will not reduce the overall number of spaces BUT I can see there needing to be more on street charging places than strictly necessary. That is because people are not going to move their EV away from a space with an on street charger unless they are about to use the EV.
I don't see many commuters turning to an eBike. I started commuting by bike but bad weather made that difficult occasionally. I would rather be in a warm tin box. For me it would be public transport (if not walking distance), note that was not feasible back then which is why I bought my first car.
I do have an e-bike. The car is more for football matches, training, large shops etc.
I'm not against someone having a car but agree more people could use something else more than they likely do.
If parking continues its upward pricing, there might be a fair few who would have an e-bike, and use it except when the weather really is inclement. Foer many local and railhead locations*, cycling to get a commuter train is very popular, and facilities at the station can be tailored to what commuters need at favourable prices, - way below that charged for a 2.4m by 4.0m piece of road (parking space).
* St Albans is a very busy commuter station with a swarm of cyclists arriving/departing in the peaks, and the cycle facilities have been greatly extended at least twice to my knowldge. I would guess that @Bald Rick has used the cycle arrangements there and would know more about the costs relative to cars involved.
Bad weather is only occasionally, for example I've been walking (2 minutes from where I'm going) the rain is heavy enough for cars to have their wipers on, but it's too light for me to bother getting my coat out of my bag. Likewise, cars can have their wipers (just about) on constant and it not be worth putting my hood up.
As such the perception of bad weather is worse of you're in a car than if you're walking.
Personally I find that it's bad about 7 times a year. However, I do have a decent waterproof coat and a decent warm coat, so even those bad times aren't particularly uncomfortable. OK there are a few times when I wait 15 minutes for the weather to improve, but that's not going to materially alter the number of days where I stay dry.
The big problem for me with cycling isn't the weather, or even the fear of falling off/being in a collision, but rather the fear of having the bike stolen or damaged (far more to damage/nick with an e-bike too). That's a factor in my decision to cycle or use a car (or another form of transport, or maybe even just walking).
If a station has secure storage, that's great, but most places don't and we have all seen countless videos I'm sure of people stealing bikes in public brazenly.
I expect a lot of people only need to have a bike stolen once to possibly consider never doing it again, so this is helping us keep more people driving than is otherwise necessary.
Would this be safe enough for you? (link to article about St Albans City station secure cycle parking).
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I had a few bad soaking when using my motorbike. I agree we remember the most notable. Being sent home by the boss when on probation goosed me a bit - I was absolutely drenched !.
Being in London with so much public transport really waters down the use for a bicycle of course.
It is true about perception. My missus will look out of the living room window and say don't go out its raining. I open the front door and get a better idea of how heavy. Often the ran seems to be landing on me at a lower rate than the water is evaporating off me !. Further more an umbrella is always useful UNLESS it is windy.
Sadly that is a hidden price of crime. For me I have no where secure at the house and I know friends who have lost their bikes.
A Brompton folding bike works well if you have space to store it folded, or fold it and push It around on the skate wheels in a shop. It becomes a lot easier to combine public transport with cycling. With a full size bike, you might be able to get it onto a train, but probably not in a bus or taxi.
Electric bikes are good for hills, but are heavy and cumbersome, even if you get one that folds.
For rain, the minutecast at www.accuweather.com is good for timing gaps between heavy showers. The rain radar at https://weather.metoffice.gov.uk is also useful. Neither picks up drizzle though.
The majority of what I would describe as "a large area of terraced housing" are in urban districts, so there would be better transport choices. If I had to live in an area of terraced houses where parking is difficult, I would seriously consider whether owning a car was a wise decision, - so no I haven't and wouldn't.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I know what you mean.
I live in terraced housing land. Yes public transport is more of an option but it still does not remove the need for a car completely - for heavier journeys but also longer journeys particularly outside of London. I am considering hiring a van when that happens but I need a vehicle too often to make that feasible. This means the car I have is used as little as possible but I still have to park it somewhere whether I am charging it or not. It is why I try to own a fully depreciated but reasonably reliable vehicle and rely on not putting too much wear and tear on it.
Finding spaces to park is a little tricky as it is and having to play musical chairs with EV charger spaces is not going to be popular. It really needs all spaces to be capable of EV charging even if each space is only used for actual charging 25% (or even less) of the time.
Otherwise, when I want to charge my car I will have to hunt around for a space with a charger that is occupied by a car not on charge and then find the owner and ask them to move. Even worse - try doing that at silly O'Clock in the morning when I have come back from a trip.
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I think what you'll do is slap it on a rapid charger at the local (converted) petrol station for a few minutes.
Alternatively, you book a parking space with charging. This could be on someone's driveway as with Just Park.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
After investing in an EV the lastthing I would want to do is pay over the odds for electricity.
Would be tempting. Not many driveways near me but generally could be an option.
I do not know whether it is just Park but my friend parks his ICE on a booked driveway near to Stanstead when he is jetting off. So that would be a temptation - a nice full EV on arrival back from Europe.
I expect prices will fall.
So how does the homeowner charge their own vehicle? Most EVs the cable stays locked unless you unlock the car or tell the car to release it.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Fingers crossed
My guess is the homeowner ends up with the car keys in for when they need the charger.
I assume it is the same problem if the homeowner needs to juggle ICE cars on the driveway anyway - now where the insurance stands on that I do not know.
Haha. No way am I leaving my car keys with some random homeowner!
Reality is your car will most likely have enough range to get you home again after your holiday without charging. At worst you'll need a 5 or 10 minute pit stop somewhere.
Let's hope competition brings public charging prices down, or we even see some innovations to allow people to charge at certain stations at a 'home rate'. Companies like Octopus will hopefully do something like that.
GusB
Established Member
This explained by the relevant website is. In the case of Just Park:
JustPark
Find parking, wherever and whenever you need it, online or via the JustPark app. Reserve a space at over 45,000 locations. Trusted by 10 million drivers.
www.justpark.com
There was one other company that I've heard about (I can't for the life of me remember what it's called, though). You book your parking and pay online, then the owner of the parking space is paid by the company. If you need your charger at a certain time, you simply don't make it available to book.
Edit: Joosup was the other service I'd seen featured, but Co Charger is another that came up when searching.
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I could see management companies (which could be a company run by the residents of the development) installing charging if there was a way to charge the user.
The ideal could be that the charger was open to all (so it would being in some income to cover some of the maintenance costs, especially if there was also a parking charge as well), with non residents being charged a premium, whilst the residents were charged for little more than just the electricity cost.
If someone brought to market a system which allowed that at a price not too dissimilar to a normal wall charger, I suspect that it could provide a viable charging solution for quite a lot of people who don't have access to a driveway.
It could also be useful for other settings. For example an office may allow people to charge in their car park overnight and at weekends.
Whilst such a set up wouldn't want to make a loss on the electricity, they would be more willing to prove charging at a cheaper rate as they aren't necessarily so keen to get a return on their investment (for example a commercial charging provider would want at least the full cost of the charger paid back, whilst other settings may be happy if it makes the cost of the charger slightly cheaper, as they would have paid for a charger anyway)
Peter Sarf
Established Member
That's an idea. For instance in the case of flats with allocated parking spaces. I could imagine tenants with an EV would like a space that has a charger.
How does the charger know what car is being charged ?.
as it happens I have never used the cycle facilites at St Albans. Partly as I, personally, don’t want to deal with cycle faff at both ends (or cycling in a suit), but mostly because all my bikes are set up for ’proper’ cycling, and I’d have to buy another one with ordinary pedals (or change shoes at the station etc., more faff). It’s also been several years since I parked at the station.
The same way which commercial chargers know, by having to identify yourself (typically via an app, but could be via a smart card/credit card).
Peter Sarf
Established Member
So a resident could charge a guests car at a favourable rate (if there is a favourable rate).
Perhaps, but I guess you could potentially limit the amount of power you could get at a reduced rate in any specified period.
When the industry rolls out time of use tariffs (like Octopus Agile) more widely which I hope also applies to business customers, you could also have times allocated to the cheap energy. Residents or subscribers getting the cheap charging price only at certain times during the day or overnight.