I knew you would find a flaw in my argument
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Perhaps I did.I think you mean 1 charger per 200 people.
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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
- Thread starter MattA7
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R
RailUK Forums
Also there aren’t 65000 chargers in the UK. According to ZapMap there were 74000 public chargers at the end of December. So that’s 18.9 vehicles per public charger.
I was listening to a recent Autoalex podcast the other day, and they made an interesting observation that modern cars are so much more complex and thus less reliable than say 10 years ago, such that there may not be many 15 - 20 year old cars around in 20 years' time because they will no longer work! Probably only relates to ICEs.
Modern ICE cars generally fail with electrical faults: often requiring expensive computer replacements.
Even my 1988 Golf GTI had very ropy wiring but it was accessible and repairable.
No reason to suppose that EVs, with even more electrical equipment, should be immune from those failures
I expect the battery will last even longer than other vehicles. The cells are all made by one of about three companies, and the Spring has a very low power motor and doesn't charge particularly quickly, so the battery is going to have a very easy life indeed.
It's not a Tesla sometimes pulling 350kW when driving and then having 250kW shoved up it when plugged into a supercharger.
Even better!
Or to put it yet another way, for the UK to reach the same ratio of chargers to EVs as Norway, we would have to double the number of EVs sold this year compared to 2024, and not install any new chargers. Then at the end of the year we’d be the same.
Neither is likely. At a push we’ll have about half a million new EVs on the road this year, and another 20,000 chargers, so our ratio of EVs per charger will come down to 20:1.
I wonder if the Daily Telegraph will be reporting this good news?
Peter Sarf
Established Member
What would be interesting is to plot a graph showing the ratio of EVs to chargers for each year since EVs first appeared. Obviously "first year " is open to debate. So my second thought was to plot a graph of ratio of chargers/EVs vs ratio of EVs/ICEs.
I am wondering if we are actually ahead of other countries that are (or were) at the same stage of take up and the aforementioned graphs might be illuminating.
Be nice to know if the UK is more prepared for the take-up of EVs.
I also felt 20 EVs per charger sounds quite healthy. But then it helps if those chargers are where people need them.
Another thought is how we compare regarding rapid chargers ?.
Not that I am too keen on rapidly charging batteries generally - it hammers other kinds of non-EV batteries.
Zap Map produce many reports which will help answer some of your questions around charger numbers and speed of installation.
EV charging statistics 2026 - Zapmap
view the latest monthly data on the uk public electric vehicle charging network. track growth across standard, standard plus, rapid, ultra-rapid and destination charging points with zapmap insights.
Octopus Electroverse also produce a quarterly report on the state of charging in the UK and across Europe (most recent was published October 2024). The country comparisons are towards the end of the report (page 10 onwards):
(Mods apologies for no quote but it’s a graphic rich pdf report with very little text).
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Given the way they're being rolled out by a number of different private companies, there is likely to become saturation in some locations - which will hopefully spark a price war rather than price fixing - but in the longer term, I wonder how many might be decommissioned once destination charging becomes more of a thing (these are the stats that we really want, but will be harder to obtain). Add in people realising they can charge at home and not use public chargers much, if at all, and I don't think we really need worry too much about how many chargers there are.
I also think that there must be a fair number of first-gen chargers that are either slow or very unreliable that might not get replaced, for the above reason (saturation).
Ultimately, people are going to be able to charge their EVs without a big problem. I've had nervous moments with a near empty fuel tank in the middle of nowhere at night (when I was doing large mileages) and your expected petrol station is closed/not working/empty and you are now driving with a flashing warning light to the next one - and back when I was doing this, it was using maps not satnav. People ran out of fuel (and people still do) but I bet most people don't worry about it in the way they're convinced is going to be a nightmare if they get an EV.
I also think that there must be a fair number of first-gen chargers that are either slow or very unreliable that might not get replaced, for the above reason (saturation).
Ultimately, people are going to be able to charge their EVs without a big problem. I've had nervous moments with a near empty fuel tank in the middle of nowhere at night (when I was doing large mileages) and your expected petrol station is closed/not working/empty and you are now driving with a flashing warning light to the next one - and back when I was doing this, it was using maps not satnav. People ran out of fuel (and people still do) but I bet most people don't worry about it in the way they're convinced is going to be a nightmare if they get an EV.
Do EVs have more electrical equipment? I'd be surprised if they do. They don't need all the pumps and fans and engine management systems etc.
Of course they do: traction motors, traction batteries, motor controllers. regenerative braking equipment
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Thanks @Noddy
Interesting that Shell have a lot more chargers than others. Then in the pie chart I saw BP crop up with more faster chargers than shell. So there is a speed vs quantity debate to be had there. Assuming the chargers are on petrol station forecourts then it looks like a Shell petrol station will be cluttered with cars on a slow charge. For BP fewer cars can be charged but faster. Given the limited space on petrol stations I would assume a fast charge at a BP even if having to queue is more attractive than a slow charge at a Shell.
For people who cannot have a home charger then t is going to be more expensive but also require organising work to stay charged.
Interesting that Shell have a lot more chargers than others. Then in the pie chart I saw BP crop up with more faster chargers than shell. So there is a speed vs quantity debate to be had there. Assuming the chargers are on petrol station forecourts then it looks like a Shell petrol station will be cluttered with cars on a slow charge. For BP fewer cars can be charged but faster. Given the limited space on petrol stations I would assume a fast charge at a BP even if having to queue is more attractive than a slow charge at a Shell.
For people who cannot have a home charger then t is going to be more expensive but also require organising work to stay charged.
"More expensive than charging at home but no costs for home with off-street parking, or charging equipment supply and fitting. In all probability when the market is mature, cheaper than petrol/diesel too!
dangie
On Moderation
Just seen this on BBC website. Apologies if already here.
www.bbc.co.uk
BT scraps EV charging point scheme having only installed one
It hoped to turn 60,000 roadside green cabinets into chargers - but now says it will focus on wifi instead.
www.bbc.co.uk
No, Shell garages are not cluttered with slow chargers! Shell have a massive lamppost charging network (9422 lamppost chargers according to the Electroverse report I linked to above), as well as rapid chargers which are typically but not always sited at Petrol stations. BP don’t have a lamppost charging network.
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Just seen this on BBC website. Apologies if already here.
BT scraps EV charging point scheme having only installed one
It hoped to turn 60,000 roadside green cabinets into chargers - but now says it will focus on wifi instead.
It did seem a little odd given the locations of such cabinets weren't likely to be that good for car charging. Seemed more like a company wanting to get in on something it had no business to be involved with.
Stick with adding power sockets to lamp posts.
Well o
Obviously, but is that more or less electrical equipment than an ICE is the point I was wondering. I would also imagine that it's all in much less hostile environment than an engine bay
The development of Active Travel England has helped with the likelihood that walking and cycling could be more viable for more people.
The price people would be willing to pay for an may be different to what they would pay for an ICE.
For instance, if a car has a decent range and for people who have off-street parking (especially if solar panels become more widespread and they have them in their home) then the running costs could be lower and so be willing to pay a higher upfront cost.
Usually one motor. Occaisonally two. And the motor is also the ‘regen braking equipment’. The ‘motor controllers’ essentially replace a much more complex engine managemnet system.
And there’s no motors / control equipment required for fuel pumps, injectors, cooling fans, starter motor, no alternator, no ignition electrics, no monitoring kit for various bits of the engine and exhaust (I’ve just had a failed NOx sensor, £600…) etc etc etc etc ad nausem.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Thanks. I did not realise Shell had chargers on the street. That is kind of more commitment to EVs than just adapting you petrol forecourts.
If every lamp post had an EV charging socket I wonder if that would be plenty ?.
The snag will be low paid people who just do not have enough saved up to buy something better - even if it is cheaper in the long run.
They are the kind of people who so easily slide into uncontrollable debt - once you borrow to make ends meet you are on a downward spiral.
Oh crickey. I have noticed how expensive those little sensors can be attached to the exhaust. Luckily I have never needed to replace one myself.
A quick google suggests there are about 6 million lamp posts in the country, so yes that would be more than enough. Albeit I wouldn’t fancy using the posts in the central reservation of the M1.
Fine for the M25 though....
Almost certainly. The power supplies to most of the cabinets is quite weak having only been envisioned for telecoms equipment.
BT typically has 1 active cabinet per 288 or so houses. Where there isn't off-street parking it is nowhere near enough, and where there is off street parking it wouldn't be used.
The houses-per-lampost on specific streets matters more though and can vary. I picked a random street in Liverpool made up of entirely terraced housing and there are only 4 lamp posts for 35+ houses. Of course, adding some EV charging bollards solves this.
The main problem for terraced housing is that parking needs to be sufficient. 1 charger per 3/4 houses is adequate but only works if there is sufficient parking that those who aren't currently charging can park elsewhere. Many of the terraced streets here are already on parking permits, perhaps a good solution is to limit households to 1 permit initially. Then one month or so after that additional permits are allowed if the number of permits < 85% of the number of spaces.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I wonder, then what sort of extension lead would I need
.Lloyds siding
Member
There's problems with charging in urban areas according to the Echo
Liverpool Echo article 'Police ticketed 40 drivers last night'
Not sure about a 'weak power supply' to cabinets...have you put your hand on one of the fibre cabinets with cooling fans?
Liverpool has some lamp post chargers but it is far from every street and they often aren’t well thought out.
If you want an exact figure you’ll need to dig through the datasheets but IIRC the Huawei cabinets are only around 400W max. Even the lamppost chargers are 5kW.
Given that most charging at home (whether on a public lampost/bollard or an a private charger) will be overnight when energy is likely to be cheaper, then those EVs will be occupying the same spaces that their owner's IC vehicles occupied previously. In other words, if there's space now then so there will be in the future.
Arguably, if household sizes continue to fall and the number of people over 80 continue to be a larger percentage of the population, then it could be that demand for parking on street starts to reduce (even though population continues to rise).
Yes, I've never thought of that possible trend. My about EVs occupying the space that IC vehicles currently do is a counter to these claims by EVphobes that terraced streets won't have space for them. Kerbside chargers at a suitable spacing will suffice.
.... Just waiting for the next contrived reason for continued fossil fuel burning.
On-street charging will reduce the number of parking spaces available as they are only for use while charging. Just sticking charging bays in without reviewing the underlying structure of on-street parking in an area will just cause the sort of disruption thar GBNews will love.Yes, I've never thought of that possible trend. My about EVs occupying the space that IC vehicles currently do is a counter to these claims by EVphobes that terraced streets won't have space for them. Kerbside chargers at a suitable spacing will suffice.
.... Just waiting for the next contrived reason for continued fossil fuel burning.