Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[WarrenTManager]

So without starting a new thread, could the life-expired 455's have further life-extension work done and reliveried in SWR ??

I have more chance of winning the lottery and buying my own 455 than anything massive happening to put another 6 years on a unit. I think there are two more C4s, a tiny number of C6 and I think that’s it. I suppose you could have one liveried as a bookend to 5868 in the last throes but I can’t see that either. It would be nice but I don’t think it would happen.

 

[Class450/4DES]

And use what stock? 455s are quite literally falling apart.

Class 465's?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2025 ==

Well, if that's what everyone wants who are standing in the way of 701 introduction then why not?

Another scenario would be getting the 707s back from SE in exchange for 701s and topping up with knackered old Networkers. But then no doubt someone would find an excuse to find them unsuitable!

This might actually work. And then order more newly built ones from Goole if Siemens still build the Desiro City that is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2025 ==

Class 350/2's may be a great solution as well. All SWR needs to do is remove the OHLE equipment for 3rd rail equipment.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Class 465's?

And why would Wimbledon want yet another non-standard fleet?

 

[Class450/4DES]

And why would Wimbledon want yet another non-standard fleet?

I was saying it as I am just a fan of them. But seriously talking I have mentioned a much more serious and realistic replacement. This being the 350/2.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

This debate is reaching heavy fiction now...

 

[Class450/4DES]

This debate is reaching heavy fiction now...

Yeah, you're right.

 

[Fincra5]

Class 465's?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2025 ==


This might actually work. And then order more newly built ones from Goole if Siemens still build the Desiro City that is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2025 ==

Class 350/2's may be a great solution as well. All SWR needs to do is remove the OHLE equipment for 3rd rail equipment.

Siemens don't build the Desiro City anymore, so would be a new product line.

Would probably end up with the same issues as 701s, when it comes to training etc!

Dare I say, any future new build should involve the people who actually operate them, like Drivers, (and their union) at the start. To ensure the environment (etc) isn't a contributing factor to the delay.

 

[Goldfish62]

You post continuously in every SWR related thread.

Yes. There's a problem with that?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2025 ==

And now want the 701s taken to SE?

I'm looking at it from a whole-railway point of view rather than as an SWR customer. If it meant getting expensive new trains into service and earning their keep, while to a large extent enabling the Networker replacement programme then why not?

I like the 701s, but the current situation surely can't go on.

 

[43066]

Dare I say, any future new build should involve the people who actually operate them, like Drivers, (and their union) at the start. To ensure the environment (etc) isn't a contributing factor to the delay.

Indeed. That sounds dangerously like common sense.

I'm looking at it from a whole-railway point of view rather than as an SWR customer. If it meant getting expensive new trains into service and earning their keep, while to a large extent enabling the Networker replacement programme then why not?

I like the 701s, but the current situation surely can't go on.

We’re perfectly happy with the 707s on this side mate.

 

[Class450/4DES]

Siemens don't build the Desiro City anymore, so would be a new product line.

Would probably end up with the same issues as 701s, when it comes to training etc!

Dare I say, any future new build should involve the people who actually operate them, like Drivers, (and their union) at the start. To ensure the environment (etc) isn't a contributing factor to the delay.

Yeah. You have a point there.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Three out this morning, all on Windsors. Is this a first for a saturday?

 

[317 forever]

I wonder whether the imminent renationalisation of SWR will lead to increased emphasis to roll out the 701s sooner.

 

[cvinall]

Hard to imagine it could slow it down, although it is yet another short-term distraction for those who should be driving this forward.

I’ve no strong views on public vs private ownership of rail but in this case I’ve a quiet hope that removing the ability for local disputes to impede progress where there are no local factors, and consolidating technical and commercial expertise centrally could change things like this for the better.

 

[swtrains]

Siemens don't build the Desiro City anymore, so would be a new product line.

That's a shame.
Funnily enough, the two 707 units under SWR were the most reliable train in the whole country in 2024, according to the Modern Railways magazine (67,050 miles per technical incident)!

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Funnily enough, the two 707 units under SWR were the most reliable train in the whole country in 2024, according to the Modern Railways magazine (67,050 miles per technical incident)!

Always thought the S Stock held that record

 

[Bigfoot]

Always thought the S Stock held that record

Real trains, not wannabes

 

[norbitonflyer]

That's a shame.
Funnily enough, the two 707 units under SWR were the most reliable train in the whole country in 2024, according to the Modern Railways magazine (67,050 miles per technical incident)!

Microfleets do tend to be outliers, and it's purely a matter of luck which end of the bell curve they fall.

 

[Goldfish62]

Microfleets do tend to be outliers, and it's purely a matter of luck which end of the bell curve they fall.

And it does state that in the article!

 

[TRAX]

Time surely to consider transferring them to South Eastern, where I'm sure they would enter service a lot quicker

i’d pay good money to see that happening

 

[73128]

I was saying it as I am just a fan of them. But seriously talking I have mentioned a much more serious and realistic replacement. This being the 350/2.

Given that they are very like 450s they are not really non-standard.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jan 2025 ==

Indeed. That sounds dangerously like common sense.



We’re perfectly happy with the 707s on this side mate.

even without toilets!!

 

[Goldfish62]

even without toilets!!

That's being addressed.

 

[43066]

even without toilets!!

They’re being added AIUI, but yep not really an issue on metro type journeys.

That said I can see how this might be a problem for those with bladder issues etc.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Is the cancellation of all further training likely to scupper the intro introduction of the two additional diagrams in February? Or have sufficient numbers of staff now been trained to cover them?

 

[class701]

How can SWR still be running 82% of their 2019 schedule? On the Epsom line and probably many others, they are actually running 50% fewer services and also 20% fewer seats per trip. In no way does that produce an 18% drop since 2019. It's nearer 60%. The class 701 won't help if the service is not re-instated as it was prior to the pandemic. You only have to look at the Elizabeth line (500m+ passengers) to see that running an actual regular service brings passengers back to 'normal' levels. Imagine Crossrail 2 and what that could do for SW London and beyond.

 

[Bigfoot]

That's being addressed.

They’re being added AIUI, but yep not really an issue on metro type journeys.

That said I can see how this might be a problem for those with bladder issues etc.

This made me chuckle when I saw the 707 toilet fitting announcement. It was said many times here that it was impossible and couldn't/wouldn't actually happen. How wrong they were.

 

[JonathanH]

You only have to look at the Elizabeth line (500m+ passengers) to see that running an actual regular service brings passengers back to 'normal' levels.

The demographic in South West London is very different to that on the Elizabeth Line. A quick look at a heatmap of house prices tells you that. Therefore the gains in passenger numbers are likely to be less, simply based on the fact that a greater percentage of people who can afford to live in SWR's area have the option to work from home.

The class 701 won't help if the service is not re-instated as it was prior to the pandemic.

They will increase capacity by 25% relative to current levels without a change in the timetable.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Is the cancellation of all further training likely to scupper the intro introduction of the two additional diagrams in February? Or have sufficient numbers of staff now been trained to cover them?

Source please - I have missed that - are you sure all further training is cancelled ?.

As far as I know a few individual courses have been postponed over the Christmas period (due to staff shortages) and the training has been altered. But not cancelled out right.

 

[norbitonflyer]

This made me chuckle when I saw the 707 toilet fitting announcement. It was said many times here that it was impossible and couldn't/wouldn't actually happen. How wrong they were.

Since the structurally very similar 700s have toilets, it's hard to see why it would be a problem.

 

[Wolfie]

Since the structurally very similar 700s have toilets, it's hard to see why it would be a problem.

Yet folk still say how hard it would be on the 376s.....

To be clear l absolutely agree with you.

 

[Goldfish62]

This made me chuckle when I saw the 707 toilet fitting announcement. It was said many times here that it was impossible and couldn't/wouldn't actually happen. How wrong they were.

Just add it to the "Things that RailForumsUK say will never ever/cannot possibly happen, then do happen" list.