Unnecessarily confrontational LST gateline staff?

[Bikeman78]

My tickets at Liverpool St get rejected at the barriers all the time, but the staff have never been rude to me, they just grunt and let me through.

The return portions of tickets from south Wales to Brentwood or Shenfield never seem to work at Liverpool Street. Back in class 315 days I used to go out to Shenfield in the evening and then back to Brentwood for the Premier Inn. Then take a pair of 315s up to Liverpool Street the following morning. I didn't put the return portion through the gates at the start of the journey as it was routinely rejected so I just asked the staff at Brentwood to let me through. Perhaps that is what confuses the gates at LST? Anyway, the staff at LST were always happy to let me through, apart from one grumpy guy who put the ticket through twice and concluded from the error code that I was somehow trying it on. Nevertheless, he eventually let me through.

 

[Sonic1234]

Some of the LU stuff are utterly awful with NR tickets.

TfL are awful with NR tickets, especially when doing "unusual" things like break of journey. They have no interest and the "National Rail mate, nothing to do with us" attitude in TfL doesn't help.

Customer Relations are even worse. To quote them, "we are very sorry your special offer promotional break-of-journey ticket type didn't work" when I complained about Kentish Town getting it wrong (long may the side entrance stay open).

This is why I'm against TfL taking over any more services in London. Gateline staff on GTR are demotivated, but at least they take the if it's orange it's all good approach and wave anything through.

 

[Watershed]

I think they forgot the word “Terminal” off that one!

Even if you add "Terminal" it's still not correct - neither City Thameslink nor Fenchurch Street have Tube stations. There are ones nearby, but they aren't linked by any sort of walkway.

 

[rocrat]

TfL are awful with NR tickets, especially when doing "unusual" things like break of journey. They have no interest and the "National Rail mate, nothing to do with us" attitude in TfL doesn't help.

Customer Relations are even worse. To quote them, "we are very sorry your special offer promotional break-of-journey ticket type didn't work" when I complained about Kentish Town getting it wrong (long may the side entrance stay open).

This is why I'm against TfL taking over any more services in London. Gateline staff on GTR are demotivated, but at least they take the if it's orange it's all good approach and wave anything through.

Even when ticket acceptance has been arranged at an *expected* interchange, TfL staff are actively obstructive.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Even if you add "Terminal" it's still not correct - neither City Thameslink nor Fenchurch Street have Tube stations. There are ones nearby, but they aren't linked by any sort of walkway.

The full quote explained Fenchurch Street/Tower Hill:

Each London [terminal]station has its own tube station (except Fenchurch Street, which is served by Tower Hill)

But yes, there is also City Thameslink.

 

[talldave]

The return portions of tickets from south Wales to Brentwood or Shenfield never seem to work at Liverpool Street. Back in class 315 days I used to go out to Shenfield in the evening and then back to Brentwood for the Premier Inn. Then take a pair of 315s up to Liverpool Street the following morning. I didn't put the return portion through the gates at the start of the journey as it was routinely rejected so I just asked the staff at Brentwood to let me through. Perhaps that is what confuses the gates at LST? Anyway, the staff at LST were always happy to let me through, apart from one grumpy guy who put the ticket through twice and concluded from the error code that I was somehow trying it on. Nevertheless, he eventually let me through.

The NRCoT should really have a "Just this once" section added !

 

[Krokodil]

It will never cease to amaze me that the staff never say 'Oh gosh, I'm not sure about that, let me check '.

Who is going to write a thread about the many times that someone double-checked with a colleague? "I travelled by train today and everything was fine" isn't threadworthy.

 

[Coolzac]

Who is going to write a thread about the many times that someone double-checked with a colleague? "I travelled by train today and everything was fine" isn't threadworthy.

That is a very good point

 

[Jan Mayen]

Not a position, more a range of standard answers. One of those in the D&P section is, as stated "you should have allowed more time at the station", and it matters not a whit how much time the questioner had allowed.
At the risk of going Off Topic (standard phrase?) maybe we should have a list of standard responses and number them today cut down on storage requirements, e.g. no 285: well in the NHS, or no 108: it's better to run on overtime

Don't worry, I'll get my coat on the way out...

We aren't letting you out. You have the wrong type of coat...

 

[Lockwood]

Who is going to write a thread about the many times that someone double-checked with a colleague? "I travelled by train today and everything was fine" isn't threadworthy.

A few years ago I was stopped at the gateline at East Croydon, my ticket wouldn't work.
I asked staff. They said it was invalid as it was a Zone 1-4 travelcard. I said I asked for an all zone one. They asked where I started my journey. I said Morden. They asked what I was planning to do, I said I wanted to look at a couple of shops and head back out.

They let me out, saying that the ticket wasn't valid there as it was Zone 5, and I would need to use a tram or bus for onward travel.


It's not threadworthy, but there's a story for you.

 

[Wychwood93]

We aren't letting you out. You have the wrong type of coat...

"You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave" - many thanks to the Eagles.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

We aren't letting you out. You have the wrong type of coat...

Apologies, I thought this coat was valid (not via London) when there's an "R" in the month. Can I excess, or is a penalty fare due?

 

[Sonic1234]

The NRCoT should really have a "Just this once" section added

"Just this once" is one of the worst experiences. You get annoyed knowing they're in the wrong, the staff member gets annoyed yet there isn't any cause for complaint beyond "they said x" which gets ignored.

If you have to pay more, at least you can press for a refund which shows up on the balance sheet (the only thing that really matters)

All of it makes you realise what a precious thing ungated stations are.

 

[7db]

Who is going to write a thread about the many times that someone double-checked with a colleague? "I travelled by train today and everything was fine" isn't threadworthy.

I once arrived at a London Terminus in a bit of a flap. Suit and coat provide about a dozen pockets where you can put a ticket and not find it at the barrier. I was sure it was in there and was stumped.

Gateline staff: Did you buy a ticket, sir?
Me: Yes, but I can't find which pocket I put it in
GS: Through you go, sir. <Holds gate open>

No prizes for guessing it was Marylebone.

 

[Russel]

I once arrived at a London Terminus in a bit of a flap. Suit and coat provide about a dozen pockets where you can put a ticket and not find it at the barrier. I was sure it was in there and was stumped.

Gateline staff: Did you buy a ticket, sir?
Me: Yes, but I can't find which pocket I put it in
GS: Through you go, sir. <Holds gate open>

No prizes for guessing it was Marylebone.

The almost forgotten London Terminus, I've always found the staff there friendly and helpful.

 

[AlterEgo]

I once arrived at a London Terminus in a bit of a flap. Suit and coat provide about a dozen pockets where you can put a ticket and not find it at the barrier. I was sure it was in there and was stumped.

Gateline staff: Did you buy a ticket, sir?
Me: Yes, but I can't find which pocket I put it in
GS: Through you go, sir. <Holds gate open>

No prizes for guessing it was Marylebone.

Must have been a while ago, because now the gateline is a huge fly trap for ticketless travellers.

 

[Dave W]

The almost forgotten London Terminus, I've always found the staff there friendly and helpful.

Yes, but only when there's not a revenue operation on! When Chiltern can be some of the strictest!

Edit: I see @AlterEgo has made a similar point just ahead of me!

 

[scragend]

Apologies, I thought this coat was valid (not via London) when there's an "R" in the month. Can I excess, or is a penalty fare due?

You need to buy a new coat.

Then you can take this coat back to the shop for a refund, but when it turns out that you've already worn it they will prosecute you.

 

[MichaelTrains]

Absolutely appalling. The railway is the only industry where this kind of behaviour is tolerated in any fashion.

It will never cease to amaze me that the staff never say 'Oh gosh, I'm not sure about that, let me check '.

Totally agree from my experiences with the Northern Gustapo, who are incredibly confrontational.

 

[RJ]

If it wasn't for the staff at Liverpool Street issuing me with a Penalty Fare when they shouldn't have back in 2010, I'd never have developed any interest in ticketing rules and thus had no drama with staff who were unfamiliar with the validity of tickets they were presented with for many years to follow. I probably wouldn't have found a legal way to scarper the UK rail network for free/heavy discount for the last 15 years either.

It's good not to be too harsh on people when unfamiliar with tickets, never know what repercussions being overkeen will have.

 

[BAFRA77]

You need to buy a new coat.

Then you can take this coat back to the shop for a refund, but when it turns out that you've already worn it they will prosecute you.

You can also have a refund - but we'll deduct 30% off the amount returned for "reasons"

 

[sheff1]

I was accused of fare evasion and told I should be paying £100 penalty at Bond Street for having the temerity to use a cross-London ticket and break my journey on the Maltese cross transfer. My ticket wouldn't work in the barriers (this one probably isn't unreasonable) so I had to ask politely to be let out.

The staff member was clear that he didn't feel that my ticket was valid as it was orange (ie. National Rail) and "Manchester is 400 miles away". Upon pointing out the Maltese cross, the complaint was then that Bond Street wasn't a London Terminal and several sarcastic remarks were made to that effect.

So as well as having no clue on ticket validity he also seems to think Manchester is in Scotland. Where do they find these people ?

 

[Krokodil]

he also seems to think Manchester is in Scotland. Where do they find these people ?

Whitehall? Anything past the Watford Gap may as well be another country.

 

[rocrat]

If it wasn't for the staff at Liverpool Street issuing me with a Penalty Fare when they shouldn't have back in 2010, I'd never have developed any interest in ticketing rules and thus had no drama with staff who were unfamiliar with the validity of tickets they were presented with for many years to follow. I probably wouldn't have found a legal way to scarper the UK rail network for free/heavy discount for the last 15 years either.

It's good not to be too harsh on people when unfamiliar with tickets, never know what repercussions being overkeen will have.

I feel similarly. I would never have discovered the routeing guide and had several rather lovely trips to Scotland on a £2 ticket loophole (sadly since closed) had a guard not tried to humiliate me over an entirely valid routeing from NRE.

Likewise, had GWR simply paid up a basic delay repay claim, I'd have never thought about using the rail Ombudsman. Now I'm a regular.

 

[87electric]

If it wasn't for the staff at Liverpool Street issuing me with a Penalty Fare when they shouldn't have back in 2010, I'd never have developed any interest in ticketing rules and thus had no drama with staff who were unfamiliar with the validity of tickets they were presented with for many years to follow. I probably wouldn't have found a legal way to scarper the UK rail network for free/heavy discount for the last 15 years either.

It's good not to be too harsh on people when unfamiliar with tickets, never know what repercussions being overkeen will have.

I read your confrontations on here when you first posted them and you got me hooked on the whole ticketing rabbit hole. I’ve certainly benefitted with my ticketing since then.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So as well as having no clue on ticket validity he also seems to think Manchester is in Scotland. Where do they find these people ?

It’s a badly paid menial job and- with all due respect- recruitment standards are commensurate with the attractiveness of the job.

 

[Sonic1234]

It’s a badly paid menial job and- with all due respect- recruitment standards are commensurate with the attractiveness of the job.

Also a lot of demotivated, disinterested staff and poor oversight by management. I'd imagine the TOC training covers ticket validity, restriction codes, break of journey etc. Even TfL have this in their manual, and their gateline staff are hopeless.

But if your staff don't listen, don't care and forget it........

 

[43066]

Also a lot of demotivated, disinterested staff and poor oversight by management. I'd imagine the TOC training covers ticket validity, restriction codes, break of journey etc. Even TfL have this in their manual, and their gateline staff are hopeless.

But if your staff don't listen, don't care and forget it........

Some TOC gateline staff are agency, and training is pretty limited. There’s less excuse for TfL staff in this regard as they are permanent and better paid but, certainly in my experience, are really only equipped to deal with oyster/contactless.

Ticketing is a ridiculously complicated and, for most people, rather tedious subject. To really understand it would require these staff members to do a lot of research in their own time. You just can’t realistically expect that from people who are on little more than minimum wage.

 

[Haywain]

It’s a badly paid menial job and- with all due respect- recruitment standards are commensurate with the attractiveness of the job.

It also shouldn't be overlooked that geographical knowledge of the UK can be surprisingly bad among the general population.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Even TfL have this in their manual, and their gateline staff are hopeless.

In their defence, the TfL issues are really only at stations where there is a National Rail to TfL interface. I have sympathy with them: they have to learn all the TfL rules and then have to learn- and recognise- when National Rail rules are different.