Unnecessarily confrontational LST gateline staff?

[dk1]

They certainly do/are. I've evicted many an unhappy scrote thanks to tip offs from Norwich station staff and the branch line conductors over the years.

Good to hear mate. They certainly do their job.

 

[evergreenadam]

Travelled on the Norwich to Sheringham line recently and was pleasantly surprised at how efficient the conductors were at collecting fares.

 

[Sonic1234]

I thought the forum position with this kind of thing is "You should have allowed more time at the station"?

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the first response you'd get from Customer Relations when making a complaint. Probably after waiting 30 days for them to reply to your email.

 

[spp]

Morning commute. Noone likes it, some of us have to do it.
Gates don't like my ticket to LU123 as I'm going from Liverpool St to Tottenham Hale on the Greater Anglia service. It's a legit ticket, but gates never like it. Always ask the gateline to let me through, although today mostly they are chatting, distracted or absent. Been worse since the remodelling of the gates, I think -- it's more gregarious, less focussed on their gates. Find one a couple of platforms over.

Gateline attendant won't let me through. Your ticket isn't valid. It says London Underground 123. This isn't the underground.
Yes, I explain, it is valid. Tottenham Hale is a LU123 interchange. This is a valid route.
Don't tell me how to do my job - super aggressive response - you can't travel on this. It's 8am. I'm barely awake and not up for aggro. She asks me to step aside so she can let other passengers through, which I do.

Once dealt with. I wait and ask who we can resolve this with -- is it customer services? We agree to call Rex the manager over. He inspects my ticket as my train departs
He's straight on it. Absolutely is the right ticket. No problems. Through you go. Next train is 10 mins so no real harm done, but left with bad taste. No apology from the gateline.

I felt it was unnecessarily aggressive way to handle this. We all know that ticketing is a nightmare of complexity and a little patience and kindness is needed. I'm robust enough that I'll stand my ground and insist that the ticket is right but someone more timid might be dissuaded from travel and go and buy another ticket. Should I let Greater Anglia know?

Had something similar there whilst going to Northumberland Park for a game at Tottenham.

I had a ticket that was valid for all zones but auto barrier didn’t accept it certain staff very rude and clueless till one let me through who knew what they were doing.

 

[F Great Eastern]

There's one particular staff member who doesn't like you going through barriers when you have a change on an advance that involves Stansted Express. Normally I'll pop out and go to Pret and back in. All staff apart from this one are fine with it.

Sometimes there can be a 20 to 25 minute layover at Liverpool Street on an itinerary and the one staff member is absolute in their belief you should walk along the platform side of the gate and keep eye on the screens at lower number platforms until a Stansted comes up.

Thankfully last time a colleague told him to let me through.

 

[Parham Wood]

I would put in a formal complaint and ask for compensation for missing your train and experiencing staff behaviour of not an acceptable standard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's one particular staff member who doesn't like you going through barriers when you have a change on an advance that involves Stansted Express. Normally I'll pop out and go to Pret and back in. All staff apart from this one are fine with it.

Sometimes there can be a 20 to 25 minute layover at Liverpool Street on an itinerary and the one staff member is absolute in their belief you should walk along the platform side of the gate and keep eye on the screens at lower number platforms until a Stansted comes up.

Thankfully last time a colleague told him to let me through.

I'd say I need to go to the loo, and if he argued ask if he expected me to wet myself there. That should make the point. Absolutely ridiculous behaviour. At a terminus, you pretty much always go onto the concourse pending your next train.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Which is just idiotic because Liverpool Street is a station where it can be reasonably expected passengers will exit one side and enter the other side to make a connection.

A point that I have made to several of the staff; they all say management won't make any change - they do indeed have a large number of people changing from one side of the station to the other.

Barriers at Waterloo have no such issue even though the need to exit & re-enter is less.

...which is ironic, given that at Waterloo it is possible to change between any of the platforms except the former International ones without passing through the gateline anyway ( albeit with a long detour past the Boots store! ).

 

[JonathanH]

...which is ironic, given that at Waterloo it is possible to change between any of the platforms except the former International ones without passing through the gateline anyway ( albeit with a long detour past the Boots store! ).

Even the international platforms at Waterloo can be reached via the openings between platform 19 and 20 without passing through the gateline.

Liverpool Street is awkward with no barrier side route for passengers between platform 10 and 11.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Liverpool Street is awkward with no barrier side route for passengers between platform 10 and 11.

That is precisely why the two halves should be programmed separately. Surely it must be possible?

 

[Hadders]

@7db was fortunate that the manager who was called knew that the ticket was valid and let then through. A few years agi at Kings Cross I was using a totally valid ticket that was rejected by the barrier and the member of staff refused to let me through. I asked for a manager to attend who sided witht he member of staff. This was all witnessed by several forum members.

 

[Russel]

Absolutely appalling. The railway is the only industry where this kind of behaviour is tolerated in any fashion.

It will never cease to amaze me that the staff never say 'Oh gosh, I'm not sure about that, let me check '.

Glad it's not just me that has noticed this, I know every industry hast the odd bad egg, but on the railway, it seems a lot more widespread, look at Crewe, Euston, Blackpool North as prime examples.

Definitely good for standing your ground. Having been stood on gates myself in their shoes - it does you no favours getting uppity with passengers.

Fully agree, you'd think it would be obvious that if you don't treat customers with respect, you're not going to get it in return.

 

[Horizon22]

It’s definitely a training, competency and motivation issue. Gateline is probably one of the lowest paid jobs in the railway and has fairly quick turnover yet the knowledge of ticketing they need to have should be reasonably detailed. Local management probably know ticketing rules to a relatively low or even lesser degree and can’t always intervene in every case.

In additional the general complexity of the ticketing can’t help. But that’s no excuse for a poor attitude of course.

 

[Purple Train]

It’s definitely a training, competency and motivation issue. Gateline is probably one of the lowest paid jobs in the railway and has fairly quick turnover yet the knowledge of ticketing they need to have should be reasonably detailed. Local management probably know ticketing rules to a relatively low or even lesser degree and can’t always intervene in every case.

In additional the general complexity of the ticketing can’t help. But that’s no excuse for a poor attitude of course.

This is very true, and not a point I see made a lot on the Forum. I wonder if there's simply a feeling of, "Yes, the ticketing rules are needlessly complicated, and yes, finding some way to simplify them would definitely help to make the passenger's experience less unpleasant, both when buying tickets and dealing with staff. However, if some way is found to simplify the system and rules, it's less fun trying to find a cheap but obscure ticket, and I can't save any money by splitting at Dawlish Warren and Rishton." I have occasionally seen people argue on here that the ticketing rules are "not that difficult to understand" - I've been obsessed with train tickets, in one way or another, since around the time I learnt to walk and I still find it confusing, and I don't think it's just me. It's just a shame that so many staff encountered in this section of the Forum fail the attitude test and distract from the problem - the only time I was ever sold an incorrect ticket was by a lovely man at Wivenhoe ticket office who really tried to go out of his way to get me the best possible ticket when I had a really complicated itinerary on a Sunday with engineering work and strikes, but was misled by his computer. Something really needs to change.

 

[crablab]

I was accused of fare evasion and told I should be paying £100 penalty at Bond Street for having the temerity to use a cross-London ticket and break my journey on the Maltese cross transfer. My ticket wouldn't work in the barriers (this one probably isn't unreasonable) so I had to ask politely to be let out.

The staff member was clear that he didn't feel that my ticket was valid as it was orange (ie. National Rail) and "Manchester is 400 miles away". Upon pointing out the Maltese cross, the complaint was then that Bond Street wasn't a London Terminal and several sarcastic remarks were made to that effect.

Of course, breaking your journey in this way is totally valid (see "Travelling across London with your train ticket" on https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-in-london/) but I didn't appreciate his tone, or the insinuation that I was deliberately evading fares.

Simply not engaging with the argument and asking to be let out (which he did, although he continued to yell after me) seems to be the best way to handle these situations.

 

[thejuggler]

Just think how much less aggro the gateline staff would have if they were to report the issue over certain tickets being rejected to those in a position to address the matter, rather than berating customers for having to regularly use a system which isn't currently fit for purpose.

Once reported they have done the right thing, after that they can let whiever they want through as its not a problem of their making.

 

[7db]

I did drop a note to Greater Anglia and asked that they perhaps train their staff in appropriate ways to handle challenges to their judgements. Honestly not that bothered by missing the train. There was another one and I was 90 minutes early for work in any case.

This morning, I approached the same member of gateline staff. And after a cheery good morning from me and inspection of my ticket with a frown...
- Where are you going?
- Still Tottenham Hale.
- Oh it's you again. <opens gate>
- Have a good morning.

I think we're going to be friends.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

There's a Forum position?

Not a position, more a range of standard answers. One of those in the D&P section is, as stated "you should have allowed more time at the station", and it matters not a whit how much time the questioner had allowed.
At the risk of going Off Topic (standard phrase?) maybe we should have a list of standard responses and number them today cut down on storage requirements, e.g. no 285: well in the NHS, or no 108: it's better to run on overtime

Don't worry, I'll get my coat on the way out...

 

[Haywain]

Just think how much less aggro the gateline staff would have if they were to report the issue over certain tickets being rejected to those in a position to address the matter, rather than berating customers for having to regularly use a system which isn't currently fit for purpose.

Those in a position to address the matter would then politely explain to the staff why it isn't actually possible to program barriers to be infallible.

One of those in the D&P section is, as stated "you should have allowed more time at the station", and it matters not a whit how much time the questioner had allowed.

Actually, that's complete nonsense. People are regularly told that they should have allowed more time when they have arrived at a station at the last minute and jumped on a train without buying a ticket at the available ticket office or machine, but they are not given such advice when sufficient time for whatever has been allowed.

 

[OscarH]

I was accused of fare evasion and told I should be paying £100 penalty at Bond Street for having the temerity to use a cross-London ticket and break my journey on the Maltese cross transfer. My ticket wouldn't work in the barriers (this one probably isn't unreasonable) so I had to ask politely to be let out.

The staff member was clear that he didn't feel that my ticket was valid as it was orange (ie. National Rail) and "Manchester is 400 miles away". Upon pointing out the Maltese cross, the complaint was then that Bond Street wasn't a London Terminal and several sarcastic remarks were made to that effect.

Of course, breaking your journey in this way is totally valid (see "Travelling across London with your train ticket" on https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-in-london/) but I didn't appreciate his tone, or the insinuation that I was deliberately evading fares.

Simply not engaging with the argument and asking to be let out (which he did, although he continued to yell after me) seems to be the best way to handle these situations.

Some of the LU stuff are utterly awful with NR tickets.

I was refused entry at Farringdon with a bog standard Gatwick to St Pancras flexible ticket because "this isn't St Pancras" and break of journey rules didn't apply - never really got a reason why not, he said if I could prove it with the NRE page then he'd accept it, but when I showed him he just denied was that relevant. I was eventually let through because he said he guaranteed it wasn't valid but he wasn't looking for an argument. Apparently fares specifically have to say Farringdon, London Thameslink or "London Terminals +High Speed" (yes that is what they said) to be valid there!

Side note, but I wish GTR would delete their duplicate "specific destination" fares like that one, and only had the real London Thameslink tickets so I wouldn't have gotten into that mess. London Thameslink has been around long enough for everyone to support it properly.

 

[DarloRich]

for balance - I have had precisely 1 issue with gate line staff in X years:

Someone at Euston tried to write me up for not having a ticket despite travelling from a station with no ticket facilities. Once the manager arrived and sorted things out it was clear he had heard Stratford while I was saying Fenny Stratford. The lad involved was keen, young and new. He just needed to chill out and listen. That and get a map of his employers services and routes

The key is knowing how to deal with such situations.

 

[MrJeeves]

Apparently fares specifically have to say Farringdon, London Thameslink or "London Terminals +High Speed" (yes that is what they said) to be valid there!

That's a bit ironic given Farringdon isn't a London Terminal...

 

[Tetchytyke]

Some of the LU stuff are utterly awful with NR tickets.

I was refused entry at Farringdon with a bog standard Gatwick to St Pancras flexible ticket because "this isn't St Pancras" and break of journey rules didn't apply - never really got a reason why not

If you were travelling on London Underground it wouldn't have been valid. You can break a journey on London Underground when you're travelling on the cross-London provision but you can't resume it on London Underground.

Of course the ticket would have been valid on Thameslink to St Pancras.

I have sympathy with the LU gateline staff to be honest, it's really not clear when one gateline covers LU and NR services. It's even worse on Elizabeth Line where you can exit from one station into another (e.g. Farringdon to Barbican and Moorgate to Liverpool Street).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2025 ==

That's a bit ironic given Farringdon isn't a London Terminal

IIRC the exemption is to do with the changes relating to when most express services from Kent were moved to HS1. It means you can use HS1 and keep the validity to whichever London Terminal(s) the 'classic' expresses would have allowed you to access.

At this stage I'd just make Farringdon a London Terminal and have done with it tbh.

 

[dcsprior]

Yes, complain to GA. Maybe they’ll train their staff better.

Or, even better, they'll fix this:

It's a legit ticket, but gates never like it

 

[OscarH]

If you were travelling on London Underground it wouldn't have been valid. You can break a journey on London Underground when you're travelling on the cross-London provision but you can't resume it on London Underground.

Of course the ticket would have been valid on Thameslink to St Pancras.

I have sympathy with the LU gateline staff to be honest, it's really not clear when one gateline covers LU and NR services. It's even worse on Elizabeth Line where you can exit from one station into another (e.g. Farringdon to Barbican and Moorgate to Liverpool Street).

Sorry - should have made it clearer I was travelling on the return, and hadn't used any of the inbound validity yet. It was very clear I was using Thameslink.

 

[endecotp]

(see "Travelling across London with your train ticket" on https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-in-london/)

That seemed like an interesting link so I clicked on it, and the first paragraph says:

London has over 330 train stations, with routes to all parts of Great Britain. Each London station has its own tube station​

Which is so amazingly and completely wrong, that I would not believe anything else on that page!

 

[Horizon22]

That seemed like an interesting link so I clicked on it, and the first paragraph says:

London has over 330 train stations, with routes to all parts of Great Britain. Each London station has its own tube station​

Which is so amazingly and completely wrong, that I would not believe anything else on that page!

I think they forgot the word “Terminal” off that one!

 

[43066]

I think they forgot the word “Terminal” off that one!

Even then not strictly correct as Fenchurch Street, although a London terminal, doesn’t have its own tube station.

 

[Horizon22]

Even then not strictly correct as Fenchurch Street, although a London terminal, doesn’t have its own tube station.

Which it says in the link.

 

[43066]

Which it says in the link.

Indeed. I had read the quote, not the link!