Greater Anglia - Travel Irregularity Letter

[dsa123]

Hello,

I have received a Travel Irregularity letter from Greater Anglia and am really worried about where this could lead. I have read as many of the posts on here as I can, and there has been some brilliant advice offered - but I’m aware every case is different and would be really grateful for your thoughts or any reassurance you can offer me.

I am a bit wary of unintentionally identifying myself to anyone from GA who might come across this forum and so I would prefer to avoid mentioning the specific stations in my situation…I hope that’s OK.

I have been stupidly short faring for quite some time. It goes without saying that I completely regret this and am overcome with embarrassment - I wish I had never been so naive. I am extremely honest in all other aspects of my life, it’s just that I feel completely ripped off by train ticket prices and thought I could save a bit of money without any consequences.

Approximately once a week (but not every week) I travel one-way from Station A to Station D (there are two stops on the line between these, so I’ll name them Stations B and C). There are no barriers at Station A and sometimes the barriers are open at Station D, so I usually wait to see if they are closed when I arrive. If so, I purchase a ticket on an app from Station C to Station D (i.e a shorter distance than I actually travelled). It’s worth mentioning that the train I usually get does not actually stop at Station C, although it is on the same line and occasionally does stop there.

One Saturday (not the day I usually travel), I had to make the same journey from Station A to Station D. I’d fully intended to buy the correct ticket for this journey whilst waiting on the platform, as this was outside of my usual pattern where I tried to save money on that particular regular journey (if that makes sense). I also thought an inspector was likely to be around on a Saturday. However when I arrived on the platform, the train was already there so I jumped straight on, flustered, and forgot all about the ticket until I saw an inspector on the train after we had passed Station B. I panicked and quickly bought a ticket on my app but it was the wrong one - I bought one from Station B to Station D instead of Station A to D. When my ticket was scanned, the inspector confronted me about why it was only-just purchased and asked how I’d been able to get through the barriers at Station B without scanning the ticket. I had no idea that they could see the time of purchase and was filled with horror about what this meant for my ticket purchase history. Long story short, I was fined for my journey from Station A to Station D - but he assured me he wasn’t going to put it on the record and this would be the end of it.

This experience terrified me. I spent the week full of anxiety and resolved to never short-fare again. In a panic, I also deleted my ticket app account. However, I haven’t needed to make my regular journey since and so haven’t got evidence of turning over a new leaf.

So now, having received this letter, I am really worried again. I’ve seen some posts from people who have received a letter without having been stopped by an inspector, so I’m aware it could be coincidental.

My problem is that I deleted my app account, and so I cannot look at my purchase history to work out how many times I have short fared…I also almost don’t want to as I’m scared of the answer. As a rough estimate, I think it happens approx. twice a month on average and I think it could have been for as long as 3 years - but I genuinely can’t remember exactly.

To further complicate matters, I also realised after deleting the app that my Railcard was on there, so I’ve been meaning to contact the app to get it reinstated before my next journey - however when looking through my emails to try to find an email confirmation to show my Railcard expiry date, I found an unread email about renewing my Railcard, and I am now wondering if it had in fact expired and I hadn’t realised (the email doesn’t specify that it expired - it just says Renew for a 1/3 off).

Perhaps the letter is in relation to the expired Railcard (assuming it has expired) - I think this would be the best case scenario for me as my Renewal email is dated a few months ago, and so it should only be a few months of incorrect fares that I hope can be sorted out.

It’s whether the letter is referring to the short fares that I am most concerned about, and the likelihood of prosecution if indeed they can show I have been doing this over a period of a few years. I know there are a lot of unknowns at the moment. I responded politely to the letter on the same day saying I wanted to resolve this and asked for more details, but how long realistically do you think it will take for me to hear back now? What tends to happen to people who have been short faring repeatedly over a sustained period of time?

If this letter is only referring to an expired Railcard, do you think reopening my original app account (if it’s possible to do so) could highlight the other issues, or should I assume they probably have access to that anyway? Also, if it is only referring to an expired Railcard, do you think they are likely to find out and get in touch about the other issues separately?

As mentioned above, I am hesitant to share anything that could identify me and so haven’t attached the letter/my response - but this is what the letter says:

We have been investigating industry data and have been led to believe you are potentially not paying full fares on Greater Anglia services.

This activity has been highlighted as potentially fraudulent.

We view this as a serious issue, and we have taken this step to contact you, with an outlook to resolve this matter with you efficiently.

It also mentions my app account as a reference.

Thanks so much in advance for your thoughts and please let me know if I need to provide any further info.

 

[Titfield]

It is almost certain that the TOC has identified data on your booking account that leads them to believe that you have been short faring. The TOC will have access to your account. They may not know for certain if you have or do not have a valid railcard.

You have two choices of action:

1. Ignore the letter. That would put the ball back in the hands of the TOC for them to decide what to do next. The question is do they have proof of you short faring or not. This would have to be proof that would meet the standard of the burden of proof in a court of law. Bookings in an online account (that do not prove travel took place without a valid ticket) do not meet the burden of proof. However if they did have proof (for example cctv**) then they would seek to prosecute you which would (if proven) lead to a fine, victim surcharge, payment of the fares not paid and administration costs of the TOC. You would also have a criminal record.

*I note you have emailed requesting more details.

**CCTV may only provide evidence of travel. It could not prove that you did not have a valid ticket as theoretically you could legitimately hold a valid ticket purchased or acquired through other means.

2. Own up to what you have done (as outlined in many posts on this forum) and hope that the TOC will be minded to offer you an out of court settlement which would be the fares not paid (potentially at the full single fare rate with no allowance for fares paid) plus their administration fees.

The fact that you have asked for more details rather puts you at a disadvantage as realistically it is a form of admission.

I rather think you need to (a) see if you can get the account reinstated so you can calculate the shortfaring (b) wait for the next letter from the TOC (c) prepare a letter of apology etc so you can send that when you hear back from the TOC.,

 

[dsa123]

Thank you for your reply - much appreciated.
I am a bit worried about your point about CCTV - are you saying you think they would almost definitely prosecute if they have this, as opposed to offering a settlement? How long do they hold footage for?
I guess it really depends on what they say next - whilst yes, on some occasions I could theoretically have had a paper ticket purchased with cash that I didn’t get out due to open barriers, I am completely done with any dishonesty and just want to be transparent from now on so this can be put to bed, without creating more problems for myself unnecessarily.

If anyone could let me know the general response times from GA for this stage, that would be very helpful as I’m constantly refreshing my emails in fear.

 

[AlterEgo]

Unlike many "fishing" emails GA send out, they actually already caught you doing this red handed and now likely have enough evidence to attempt to prosecute you as a habitual and hardened fare evader. A court would likely find you did travel on the occasions too, even without CCTV. You should attempt to settle.

 

[John R]

The extract you quoted from the letter received doesn't say what it was wanting you to do in response. This is quite important, so perhaps you could let us see the contents of the full letter. Then we can tell how appropriate (or not) your response was.

As @AlterEgo says, they've caught you already, so this isn't a fishing expedition. They have hard proof of you avoiding the correct fare on one occasion, which they can use to back up the very strong circumstantial evidence of all the journeys on your online account, which of course they will have access to, despite you deleting it.

it’s just that I feel completely ripped off by train ticket prices

One (of many reasons admittedly) that rail fares are so high is that there is a lot of fare evasion goes on, particularly for shorter journeys like yours from unbarriered stations. Just think about that for a moment...

 

[dsa123]

I am completely terrified. I will of course do everything I can to settle.

AlterEgo - when you say they have already caught me, do you think they then definitely have a link between my fine and this issue, even though the inspector said he wasn’t going to log the fine?

John R - what I copied above was the full body of the letter, however the body of the email said the following and asks me to respond:

Good morning,

I am emailing from the Greater Anglia fraud department, we have been investigating industry data and have been led to believe you are potentially not paying full fares on Greater Anglia services. There appear to be a number of incorrectly purchased tickets showing on your account that are a breach of our terms and conditions and considered fraudulent activity.

Attached is a letter for you to read.

Please respond within 7 days to potentially settle this case

 

[Titfield]

The TOC is not going to make their task more difficult than it needs to be.

If as @AlterEgo states they have one incontrovertible event then that is all they need.

You state in your original post that you were fined. Do you mean that you were issued with a penalty fare which you paid? (Legally speaking only a court can issue a fine but this forum recognises that posters to this forum uses the expression "fined" as a generic word).

Most TOCS go to court only when (a) the person has refused to engage (b) there are aggravating factors such as foul or abusive language OR they are a persistent offender who has been subject to some form of action before (c) the scale of fare evasion is such that it warrants prosecution BUT we have seen on here many cases where one would expect a prosecution to take place on the grounds of industrial size fare evasion however an out of court settlement has been offered.

Estimating when you will next hear from the TOC is difficult. We see responses within days and yet at the other end of the scale after months. However given you have engaged already and therefore your case is active i would expect a response within 10 working days.

 

[dsa123]

Yes, it was a penalty fare - apologies for using the incorrect term. I paid it on the spot.

 

[John R]

OK. They know you've done it, you know you've done it, but you've gone back to ask for more details. I'd suggest they will put that into the "not being particularly cooperative" bucket I'm afraid.

Whether they will bother sending you further details or just move straight to prosecution you'll have to wait and see. I would imagine if they do you will still have an opportunity to fess up and ask for a settlement when you receive the papers. Greater Anglia do seem to be reasonable cooperative in offering settlements, and at the lower end of the severity scale too, so there is still reason to be hopeful that this will not lead to court.

 

[dsa123]

John R - I did also say in my email that I wanted to resolve the matter as best as I can and co-operate (that’s all I said). It was just difficult to know what exactly they were referring to as it was so vague, hence why I asked for more details.
I will update when I hear more as I don’t want to incriminate myself where I don’t need to in my next response, but I also really don’t want to hide anything that could also get me in more trouble later down the line. All I want is to settle up, draw a line under it and do things properly from now on having well and truly learnt my lesson.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

From what you've told us you've been doughnutting for some time - buying tickets at either end of your journey to get through the barriers leaving a gaping gaop in th emiddle. In addition, it's likely that some of these journeys have been made with an expired railcard. Many people would argue that a case like this should end up in court.

Greater Anglia work with Trainline (and other ticket selling websites) to detect fraudulent activity. This is all perfectly legal under GDPR as it is for the prevention and detection of crime. Deleting your Trainline account doesn't make the data disappear, Trainline and Greater Anglia will still have access to it.

Greater Anglia's letter is effectively inviting you to incriminate yourself, when it says they want to resolve the issue with you effeciently what they actually mean is they want to offer you an out of court settlement. It is unlikely that Greater Anglia will have sufficient evidence to present a case to a court to be able to prove 'beyond all reasonable doubt' that you comitted an offence.

That said, nobody knows exactly what aditional evidence Greater Anglia does hold against you. For example, if you've been doughnutting they might have CCTV that will link ticket scan data specifically with you. I think this is unlikely as if they had this they would probably stop you in person, I simply mention it for completeness.

It's up to you to decide whether to engage with Greater Anglia. You're not required to do so, but if you don't there is a (remote) possibility that they might possess more concrete evidence of your wrongdoing. If they do have such evidence then they are unlikely to offer you an out of court settlement. On the other hand if you do engage they will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement which would mean they would not be able to prosecute you in the future.

The other thing worth mentioning is that you have come to Greater Anglia's attention before as you were given a Penalty Fare. This doesn't change what I've said above but it does mean you are on their radar.

 

[mangomango]

Hi, I am in a similar situation and wondered how this progressed for you and what their response was to your email?

 

[jfollows]

Hi, I am in a similar situation and wondered how this progressed for you and what their response was to your email?

Please start your own, new thread.
The fact that the original poster here hasn’t been back for two months (last seen 21 November) probably means you won’t get a reply to your question, but if you want to explain your circumstances I’m sure others will be happy to help you.