No Ticket At Stations Where RPOs Are Absent

[Discuss223]

What happens when someone has no ticket for their journey that they have already made when they arrive at gatelines of terminal stations if RPOs aren't around?

For example, if someone travels on an LNER train to King's Cross, and there are no RPOs around to put them under caution or ascertain if there is a genuine reason why they travelled with no ticket?

I have seen it before at a station in the East Midlands (which I won't name), where the CSO simply told the passenger to buy a ticket from the booking office and let them out. Is this the official line for CSO manned barriers?

 

[cheekybifta]

In many places it's quite normal to buy a ticket at the gateline so you can exit. Some stations have a ticket machine and/or a ticket office window inside the gateline for this reason - often with a huge queue, so best avoided.

At smaller stations with a tiny gateline, it seems normal for the member of TOC staff on the gateline to sell tickets from a portable machine much like the guard on the train. The dispute with any argumentative passengers is whether they'll pay for a ticket at all and nothing to do with penalty fares or prosecutions.

 

[AlterEgo]

What happens when someone has no ticket for their journey that they have already made when they arrive at gatelines of terminal stations if RPOs aren't around? For example, if someone travels on an LNER train to King's Cross, and there are no RPOs around to put them under caution or ascertain if there is a genuine reason why they travelled with no ticket? I have seen it before at a station in the East Midlands (which I won't name), where the CSO simply told the passenger to buy a ticket from the booking office and let them out. Is this the official line for CSO manned barriers?

Unless the gateline assistant has the capacity and capability to sell a ticket the passenger will generally be let out.

 

[43066]

What happens when someone has no ticket for their journey that they have already made when they arrive at gatelines of terminal stations if RPOs aren't around? For example, if someone travels on an LNER train to King's Cross, and there are no RPOs around to put them under caution or ascertain if there is a genuine reason why they travelled with no ticket? I have seen it before at a station in the East Midlands (which I won't name), where the CSO simply told the passenger to buy a ticket from the booking office and let them out. Is this the official line for CSO manned barriers?

There’s nothing else they can realistically do in these circumstances, even if the reason for the traveller having no ticket is nefarious. Gateline staff can’t sell them a ticket, can’t issue a penalty fare or report them for prosecution etc.

They can ask them to buy a ticket at the booking office or TVM, as in your example, but they will need to let them through the barriers to do so, and there’s nothing to stop the person from simply walking off.

 

[Watershed]

It really depends on the company whose staff operate the barriers (which can be different from the station operator in some cases), and the facilities available at a given station.

If there's an "excess fares" window of a ticket office, or a paid-side ticket machine, then it's fairly simple; the ticketless passenger is directed to use them.

If neither exist, then some companies such as Avanti give their gateline staff portable ticket selling machines, similarly to what on-train staff such as guards carry.

Others make their gateline staff Penalty Fare trained, so they'd issue Penalty Fares to such passengers instead. Or they might give them MG11 training to take details for prosecution.

Some - probably most(?) - companies don't give their gateline staff any tools to sell tickets or issue Penalty Fares/MG11s, so in the absence of paid-side facilities they simply have to let such passengers through and advise them to buy a ticket at the machine or ticket office. If staffing/practicalities permit they might escort the passenger to discourage them from doing a "runner".

 

[island]

Some - probably most(?) - companies don't give their gateline staff any tools to sell tickets or issue Penalty Fares/MG11s, so in the absence of paid-side facilities they simply have to let such passengers through and advise them to buy a ticket at the machine or ticket office. If staffing/practicalities permit they might escort the passenger to discourage them from doing a "runner".

Or in Merseyrail's case, have plain-clothes staff watching to see if they do a runner and MG11 them.

 

[Discuss223]

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far and in future. @Watershed It's particularly interesting to hear that some CSOs/Gateline Assistants are Penalty Fare trained. Ofcourse, at stations which are managed by companies like LNER & Avanti, they have no Penalty Fare licence - yet can be served by Penalty Fare operators, such as Stoke-On-Trent with the Northern services.

 

[island]

There is of course nothing stopping a TOC putting RPIs at another TOC's station, such as Northern at Stockport.

 

[BlueLeanie]

What happens when someone has no ticket for their journey that they have already made when they arrive at gatelines of terminal stations if RPOs aren't around?

Same as people who have a valid ticket that isn't being accepted by the gateline.

Look around, try and attract the attention of a member of staff, keep trying to get the attention of anyone.

Knowing you've made best endeavours, apply firm pressure to the barrier, and it will open.

It's the same for getting on the platforms. Last weekend there were people being forced to climb over barriers at Paddington due shortage of staff.

 

[RPI]

As others have said, depends on the TOC. GWR gate line staff are all ticket trained and the vast majority have a ticket machine or excess window, sometimes single staffing can cause issues with this, some gate line staff at GWR are PF trained also, but not all, all (GWR) are able to complete Unpaid Fare Notices or Travel Irregularity Reports.

There are rare occasions (on GWR) where agency staff may be used, but this is incredibly rare these days.

 

[BAFRA77]

I have noticed on regular occasions when arriving at Birmingham New Street that the gatelines are closed and staffed by the Avanti lot - but the nice shiny Fares to Pay window on the platform side of the barriers is regularly shut.

So - what would one do in that instance?

 

[island]

I have noticed on regular occasions when arriving at Birmingham New Street that the gatelines are closed and staffed by the Avanti lot - but the nice shiny Fares to Pay window on the platform side of the barriers is regularly shut.

So - what would one do in that instance?

Speak to ticket barrier staff.