Do train crews from different TOCs mix with one another in the mess room, or keep themselves to themselves?

[43066]

I've worked for local authorities and the NHS, both of which have large numbers of union members, but the subject has rarely, if ever, come up.

But it’s fair to say they’re less unionised than the railway operational grades. I wouldn’t say we endlessly discuss union issues in railway messrooms, either, although naturally there was more focus on these matters during the recent protracted industrial dispute.

Obviously it varies by location and role, but I get the distinct sense that culture and industrial relations in the NHS are worse than those on the railway, again based on contacts of mine who work there.

It’s also notable that plenty of NHS staff seem to want to join the railway, in many cases because they claim to be sick of being overworked, underpaid and a toxic culture, yet I don’t know of any railway staff going the other way.

 

[PLY2AYS]

I know in Paddington messroom, certain drivers are only allowed to sit on certain tables, depot dependent apparently.
It’s a laughable Mean Girls “you can’t sit with us” mentality.

I can see a swift end to it if any BAME train crew get rightly annoyed and put in a grievance; being segregated due to where someone comes from isn’t a good look, irrespective of the tradition.

 

[Scotrail84]

I know in Paddington messroom, certain drivers are only allowed to sit on certain tables, depot dependent apparently.
It’s a laughable Mean Girls “you can’t sit with us” mentality.

I can see a swift end to it if any BAME train crew get rightly annoyed and put in a grievance; being segregated due to where someone comes from isn’t a good look, irrespective of the tradition.

What does this mean?

 

[Kite159]

What does this mean?

BAME - "black, Asian and minority ethnic"

 

[Scotrail84]

I know in Paddington messroom, certain drivers are only allowed to sit on certain tables, depot dependent apparently.
It’s a laughable Mean Girls “you can’t sit with us” mentality.

I can see a swift end to it if any BAME train crew get rightly annoyed and put in a grievance; being segregated due to where someone comes from isn’t a good look, irrespective of the tradition.

To be fair they'd have to be able to prove they were told they couldn't sit somewhere. Difficult to do. Dunno about down south but body cams must be switched off when in messsrooms up here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2024 ==

BAME - "black, Asian and minority ethnic"

Thanks.

 

[Streakythecat]

Years ago at Reading there was a door marked "Southern Region emu drivers only".

This was because it was a signing on point for the SR drivers (Waterloo line services) and not the main Reading signing on point (and mess) across the road (1990’s).

 

[RPI]

Exeter has the main GWR mess room in the new depot building, XC and SWR use a mess room on platform one, some visiting GWR crews prefer to use that one too.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I know in Paddington messroom, certain drivers are only allowed to sit on certain tables, depot dependent apparently.
It’s a laughable Mean Girls “you can’t sit with us” mentality.

I can see a swift end to it if any BAME train crew get rightly annoyed and put in a grievance; being segregated due to where someone comes from isn’t a good look, irrespective of the tradition.

Whatever you do don’t sit in Jim’s chair

 

[Retorus]

I know in Paddington messroom, certain drivers are only allowed to sit on certain tables, depot dependent apparently.
It’s a laughable Mean Girls “you can’t sit with us” mentality.

This is comically childish. Goodness me, how old are these people?!

 

[Scotrail84]

This is comically childish. Goodness me, how old are these people?!

Thats just the way it is/was. It wont change unless management step in and force it.

 

[Egg Centric]

Exeter has the main GWR mess room in the new depot building, XC and SWR use a mess room on platform one, some visiting GWR crews prefer to use that one too.

Since it sounds like (as @Retorus epically puts it) some of the internal culture is "childish" - are RPIs ever considered in a similar way to traffic wardens by railway staff?

Notoriously traffic police are (used to be?) known as the black rats in some forces because they "eat their own" - the analogy is a bit harder to stretch for revenue since, unlike traffic police, you aren't realistically coming down on railway staff off duty, or not much anyway (TfL may be different so a fuller perspective interesting).

 

[PupCuff]

Since it sounds like (as @Retorus epically puts it) some of the internal culture is "childish" - are RPIs ever considered in a similar way to traffic wardens by railway staff?

Notoriously traffic police are (used to be?) known as the black rats in some forces because they "eat their own" - the analogy is a bit harder to stretch for revenue since, unlike traffic police, you aren't realistically coming down on railway staff off duty, or not much anyway (TfL may be different so a fuller perspective interesting).

I don't think I've ever come across this. There may be an element of "RPIs get on and they take away the conductor's commission" but most value the additional support and there's generally been informal agreements such that it's not in anyone's interest to MG11 someone who on a morning peak wants to buy a long distance anytime to London on board anyway and the RPI will refer that back to the guard to sell.

 

[Taunton]

You find this outside the railway, in places, as well. Visiting lorry drivers to the business not being "allowed" to use the staff canteen while unloading, although there are no such rules and the management are amazed when told it is being imposed by some.

In Glasgow (mentioned above) it certainly was the case on the railway, less than a generation ago, that one depot was a given religious/ethnic/football group, the next depot the opposite. The same went, in fact more so, for pubs.

 

[philthetube]

Train staff will naturally gravitate to people they know to chat with, partly just because they know them and partly because they have more to talk about, both chatting about their work mates and managers, and about the job, things that they have seen while working etc.

 

[WAB]

There's a lot of churn at many traincrew depots now, and the newer people generally don't give a toss about the petty divides.

I think there continues to be a Two Ronnies style situation with some staff with some drivers looking down on the guards who look down on the dispatchers who look down on the gateline staff who look down on the cleaners.

The rest of us just get on with the job and play nicely.

 

[chuff chuff]

Thats just the way it is/was. It wont change unless management step in and force it.

I think it's been going on so long they actually enjoy the notoriety.

 

[Falcon1200]

This was because it was a signing on point for the SR drivers (Waterloo line services) and not the main Reading signing on point (and mess) across the road (1990’s).

Reading was an interesting place; When I worked in the Booking Office there, 1980-84, we paid out the wages for one group of staff only - The SR Drivers! All the WR staff had other arrangements.

 

[DesiroOperator]

I’ve been “visiting crew” in a few messrooms and you do often get a look if you sit somewhere that has been claimed but I find it too ridiculous to care to be honest. They weren’t going to talk to me before so I get over the childish behaviour quite quickly. Conversely at an old TOC we’d have a lot of Freight guys popping in and they almost looked shocked when the newer drivers such as myself said good morning. But then my first depot was very much the starting rung at the company and so we were all universally disinterested in dinosaur behaviour.

 

[RPI]

Since it sounds like (as @Retorus epically puts it) some of the internal culture is "childish" - are RPIs ever considered in a similar way to traffic wardens by railway staff?

Notoriously traffic police are (used to be?) known as the black rats in some forces because they "eat their own" - the analogy is a bit harder to stretch for revenue since, unlike traffic police, you aren't realistically coming down on railway staff off duty, or not much anyway (TfL may be different so a fuller perspective interesting).

In 20 years doing the job it's never something I've seen, you have some guards who are keen because they don't like people getting away with it, they'll usually be happy to see you and will either leave it to you or they'll start one end and refer anything that needs a closer look, you get some who chased commission, who are usually ok because should a large ticket require selling it's easier for us to get them to do it whilst I carry on checking, and you get the vast majority who are glad that you've taken some of the workload off them.

I don't do infighting, it's easier to get along, I'll always accept and respect another member of staffs decision if they've allowed advance on wrong train/other discretionary issue (as anyone should) as long as they've told me about it and I know!

 

[75A]

Since it sounds like (as @Retorus epically puts it) some of the internal culture is "childish" - are RPIs ever considered in a similar way to traffic wardens by railway staff?

Notoriously traffic police are (used to be?) known as the black rats in some forces because they "eat their own" - the analogy is a bit harder to stretch for revenue since, unlike traffic police, you aren't realistically coming down on railway staff off duty, or not much anyway (TfL may be different so a fuller perspective interesting).

Not so sure about the'Black Rat' though. I was married to a WPC and most of our friends were in the job. I was given a round sticker white with a black rat on it and a couple of times that got me off with a b.......ng rather than a ticket. That was in the 80/90's

 

[Egg Centric]

Not so sure about the'Black Rat' though. I was married to a WPC and most of our friends were in the job. I was given a round sticker white with a black rat on it and a couple of times that got me off with a b.......ng rather than a ticket. That was in the 80/90's

They still exist for those so minded

I suspect though that the modern equivalent is... well, whoever knows isn't going to post it somewhere like here!

 

[75A]

They still exist for those so minded

I suspect though that the modern equivalent is... well, whoever knows isn't going to post it somewhere like here!

Exactly, that marriage ended in 1994, so no doubt thngs have moved on.

 

[ScottGallagher]

In general terms what is provided for staff in a railway mess room I imagine it to be for the most part tables , chairs ,kettle, vending machine and a microwave, telly if you're lucky... or is it much better than that?

 

[dk1]

In general terms what is provided for staff in a railway mess room I imagine it to be for the most part tables , chairs ,kettle, vending machine and a microwave, telly if you're lucky... or is it much better than that?

The usual musts in ours, Kettles (tea, coffee, and fresh milk provided daily), water boiler, oven, microwaves, toaster, coffee maker, hot drinks vending machine, Coke/Fanta vending machine, snacks vending machine, pool table, two fruit machines & a change dispenser. In the TV room we have full Sky with sports and film channels which are paid for by the welfare fund out of profits from said machines.

 

[12LDA28C]

The usual musts in ours, Kettles (tea, coffee, and fresh milk provided daily), water boiler, oven, microwaves, toaster, coffee maker, hot drinks vending machine, Coke/Fanta vending machine, snacks vending machine, pool table, two fruit machines & a change dispenser. In the TV room we have full Sky with sports and film channels which are paid for by the welfare fund out of profits from said machines.

I’m going to suggest the facilities you describe are rather better than the majority of mess rooms up and down the country. As long as the basics are there for having a hot or cold drink and preparing some hot food that’s really all you need.

 

[323212]

I love chatting to the people from the different companies (both on train and in common messrooms etc), great way to get an insight into what things are like on the other side of the tracks haha

 

[Scotrail84]

The usual musts in ours, Kettles (tea, coffee, and fresh milk provided daily), water boiler, oven, microwaves, toaster, coffee maker, hot drinks vending machine, Coke/Fanta vending machine, snacks vending machine, pool table, two fruit machines & a change dispenser. In the TV room we have full Sky with sports and film channels which are paid for by the welfare fund out of profits from said machines.

None of that in Scotland in any railway bothy. Its against the law up here. When I've been in messrooms down South I've seen frightening amounts of money being fed into fruit machines as well as those FOBT's type machines they have in bookies. Scary to think it could be guards takings that are getting gambled.

 

[geoffk]

Why would you fraternise with the enemy? Ever mess room I use is single TOC use (even at locations where more than one TOC has breaks, they have different buildings altogether) and most of them have designated tables for different depots or grades.

Enemy...... Seriously? I know this kind of thing happens at bus stations, e.g. in the canteen, but then bus operators have been in "competition" since 1986 (but hopefully not for much longer).

 

[PudseyBearHST]

In general terms what is provided for staff in a railway mess room I imagine it to be for the most part tables , chairs ,kettle, vending machine and a microwave, telly if you're lucky... or is it much better than that?

I suspect they now also provide a can opener

 

[dk1]

I love chatting to the people from the different companies (both on train and in common messrooms etc), great way to get an insight into what things are like on the other side of the tracks haha

I’ve heard some horror stories about the facilities some freight boys & girls are provided with. Thankfully we have always been treated well in comparison.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Dec 2024 ==

None of that in Scotland in any railway bothy. Its against the law up here. When I've been in messrooms down South I've seen frightening amounts of money being fed into fruit machines as well as those FOBT's type machines they have in bookies. Scary to think it could be guards takings that are getting gambled.

I find it so strange how things are done north of the Border. No deals on booze in pubs (even Spoons) or on Scotrail catering after certain hours for example and now you advise me of this. Why so draconian? We’ve had several guards do that over the years then scramble around to borrow. Others have been at work hours after finish time as won’t leave the fruity. Even getting someone to stand guard whilst they go out for more cash. Most I think are contactless now.