Transport for Wales Class 230

[Prime586]

I would urge caution before popping the champagne for a 230 managing a full day. It has been rather cold in the past couple of weeks, and there's not much in the air at the moment to clog the radiators. I'd keep the celebrations on hold until at least next spring.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I would urge caution before popping the champagne for a 230 managing a full day. It has been rather cold in the past couple of weeks, and there's not much in the air at the moment to clog the radiators. I'd keep the celebrations on hold until at least next spring.

I will be happier after a full twelve months thus exposure to all four seasons.

 

[WirralLine]

Just been speaking to somebody very much in the know. The genset modifications are still going through a refining phase software wise, however they said they've been trying a few out for a full day to see how they cope with temperatures etc, and apparently they've been doing just fine. The plan is still to bring 2 units out and leave just 1x197 on the line. I'd hazard a guess the one that comes off in the evening and works a Wrexham to Shrewsbury service will be the one that remains but I havnt actually looked.

They're also coping better with the low adhesion on the line than the 197s.

 

[Prime586]

They're also coping better with the low adhesion on the line than the 197s.

I imagine with the weight of the genset and battery rafts probably help, and the AC electric traction makes it easier to control wheelslip than a mechanical transmission.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I imagine with the weight of the genset and battery rafts probably help, and the AC electric traction makes it easier to control wheelslip than a mechanical transmission.

But the 197s have diesel engines and fuel tanks so not sure about weight being much of a difference between 197s and 230s. The factor in adhesion could well be down to the control of the drive train.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

230010 is at Crewe T.M.D now. Arrived this morning.

 

[CaergwrleKen]

Here we are again another new timetable but looks like the same old 230s only one working still 2 197s on the route. 5 trains and millions and millions spent or should i say wasted we still seem to be getting nowhere despite the alleged modifications and promises. I said at the start of the posts that i predicted we would never see a full 230 operated route and there’s no change to that.

 

[Jez]

Here we are again another new timetable but looks like the same old 230s only one working still 2 197s on the route. 5 trains and millions and millions spent or should i say wasted we still seem to be getting nowhere despite the alleged modifications and promises. I said at the start of the posts that i predicted we would never see a full 230 operated route and there’s no change to that.

I also noticed there were still 2 x 197s on the route when I checked RTT. How come it still hasn't gone over to the 2 x 230 diagrams?

 

[Chris125]

IIRC only 008 has been working full days so far, presumably they need more units to the same spec?

 

[anthony263]

IIRC only 008 has been working full days so far, presumably they need more units to the same spec?

006 has been done and I believe that unit has also done a full day's service. Maybe they still haven't changed crew duties

 

[Chris125]

006 has been done and I believe that unit has also done a full day's service. Maybe they still haven't changed crew duties

I remember that being mentioned, but for whatever reason 008 is the only unit I've noticed doing any regular full day running.

 

[Steve B]

I remember that being mentioned, but for whatever reason 008 is the only unit I've noticed doing any regular full day running.

There was also some mention of two or three units getting the upgrades initially, to be followed by the others if successful. Also that the systems were being tweaked to get the best out of them. It could be that 008 is the one being tweaked, and the final configuration can then be applied to 006 and subsequent units later, rather than spending time and money doing the interim adjustments across the board. Purely supposition on my part, however.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I was speaking to a former rail employee (now like me, long retired) as a fellow patient in the NHS clinic, who used to live in Buckley, who has been following Bordelands Line affairs since retirement. His views on the TfW Class 230 units are a source of comparison to an unusual unit class. He said that noting just how long the Class 142 Pacers lasted, these 5 TfW units should last just as long as they only have a short daily operational usage.

 

[WirralLine]

The lack of a second 230 this week is short term plan - currently for this week only, Im unsure why exactly, perhaps they're being sensible and seeing how one unit copes without the midday swop before throwing them out on 2 diagrams.

Regarding 230008 - its being heavily monitored and is running a different version of genset software so they behave in a completely different way to the other units.

 

[Chris125]

The lack of a second 230 this week is short term plan - currently for this week only, Im unsure why exactly, perhaps they're being sensible and seeing how one unit copes without the midday swop before throwing them out on 2 diagrams.

Seems very plausible, thanks for the update.

 

[HJ10001]

What makes the TfW class 230's so unreliable, that TfW are resorting to use the 100mph class 197's on the Borderland line?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

What makes the TfW class 230's so unreliable, that TfW are resorting to use the 100mph class 197's on the Borderland line?

They haven't proven themselves yet, and broke down/overheated a lot (especially in pollen season).
Hopefully with the new modifications that are now starting to see use they will become reliable enough to run the line full time.

 

[Bertie the bus]

What makes the TfW class 230's so unreliable, that TfW are resorting to use the 100mph class 197's on the Borderland line?

They were converted in a glorified garden shed by people who thought they were competing in Scrapheap Challenge.

 

[HJ10001]

They were converted in a glorified garden shed by people who thought they were competing in Scrapheap Challenge.

To put a cherry on the cake... Stadler seems to do a not so good job in maintaining the 230's at Birkenhead North TMD - the same place where the Merseyrail 777's receive minor repairs and cleaning.

 

[D365]

They were converted in a glorified garden shed by people who thought they were competing in Scrapheap Challenge.

There’s a lot that can be said about Vivarail, however this comment is anything but veracious.

 

[43096]

They were converted in a glorified garden shed by people who thought they were competing in Scrapheap Challenge.

There’s a lot that can be said about Vivarail, however this comment is anything but veracious.

Agreed. The statement is actually very insulting those who worked at Vivarail. Some very good people worked there (and no, I wasn't one of them).

 

[childwallblues]

To put a cherry on the cake... Stadler seems to do a not so good job in maintaining the 230's at Birkenhead North TMD - the same place where the Merseyrail 777's receive minor repairs and cleaning.

Are you saying that Birkenhead North EMU Depot which maintained and overhauled the 507/508 for over 40 years cannot do a good job?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Deleted

 

[507016]

The lack of a second 230 this week is short term plan - currently for this week only, Im unsure why exactly, perhaps they're being sensible and seeing how one unit copes without the midday swop before throwing them out on 2 diagrams.

Regarding 230008 - its being heavily monitored and is running a different version of genset software so they behave in a completely different way to the other units.

What modifications have been thrown on? I’ve been waiting for a unit shuffle for a few weeks, been looking for 007 for ages now

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What modifications have been thrown on? I’ve been waiting for a unit shuffle for a few weeks, been looking for 007 for ages now

Shaken, not stirred?

 

[507016]

Are you saying that Birkenhead North EMU Depot which maintained and overhauled the 507/508 for over 40 years cannot do a good job?

Following a quote in another discussion, various 777s have been found with missing/loose traction motor bolts. So it doesn’t surprise me

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Following a quote in another discussion, various 777s have been found with missing/loose traction motor bolts. So it doesn’t surprise me

Any response forthcoming from the manufacturers of the Class 777 units about that particular problem?

 

[Lewisham2221]

Are you saying that Birkenhead North EMU Depot which maintained and overhauled the 507/508 for over 40 years cannot do a good job?

With all due respect to those involved, they had 40-odd years to hone their skills on the 507/508 fleet, get used to their quirks and generally get to know the fleet inside-out, back-to-front. Transferring those skills to two entirely new fleets, themselves completely different from each other - at least one of which is absolutely lightyears ahead from a technology perspective, is a different game altogether.

 

[Steve B]

What modifications have been thrown on? I’ve been waiting for a unit shuffle for a few weeks, been looking for 007 for ages now

007 is in service today - although only for this morning. 010 went to Crewe a couple of weeks back, but I haven't noticed it returning - anyone know if it's back yet?

 

[WirralLine]

I think all the comments about Birkenhead North staff doing a bad job is completely uncalled for. The 777s don't have any "proper" maintenance at North, they're maintained at Kirkdale. The majority of 507/8 maintenance years were prior to Stadler taking over the depot - when they slowed down maintenance on 507/8s as they were going for scrap soon so no point spending money on them, just like all retiring fleets.

The 230s unreliability is entirely down to poor design. The modular gensets, battery rafts etc are all crammed into steel cases designed to be swapped easily in a small siding with little to no engineering facilities using a forklift - one of the 230s original selling points. If I remember rightly the fires in the early days were caused by poorly routed hoses located in a daft place. The batteries get too hot/too cold because there is little to no ventilation/cooling for them in the summer and no heating for them in the winter. The gensets shut down in summer because the radiators are tiny and clog with pollen very quickly. The staff at Birkenhead North have managed to get them into a state they can actually be used, and monitoring is in place on the various modifications to see which is most effective. If anything they've done a cracking job getting to this point.