Storm Bert Saturday 23rd November

[bramling]

There are buses from King's Lynn to Downham Market where the first trains started from. A test train was sent from KLN to check/prove the line and start from Downham Market and it appears it made it (given it started later from DOW) so hopefully services will be back to normal very soon.

The latter was quite optimistic, there’s still quite significant delays occurring on GN. I presume a lot of this is knock-on effects from stuff being delayed on the single-line sections this morning. This is one of those times when the combined 1T/2C/2L service doesn’t work so well, as it’s bled through to the stopping services. My train this evening better not be affected!

 

[MikeWM]

The latter was quite optimistic, there’s still quite significant delays occurring on GN. I presume a lot of this is knock-on effects from stuff being delayed on the single-line sections this morning. This is one of those times when the combined 1T/2C/2L service doesn’t work so well, as it’s bled through to the stopping services. My train this evening better not be affected!

Yes, mine was cancelled this morning, one of those days where it would have been useful if XC stopped at Cambridge North. Fortunately the following ex-Lynn did run and was only a bit late, as the northbound that otherwise would have conflicted on the single-line runs was also rather late so avoided the clash!

Busiest I've seen these services on a Monday - guess there were a lot of people who had avoided travelling over the weekend and chose today instead.

 

[Ian1971]

Looking like Avanti West Coast from Euston timetable is collapsing the 13:33 has yet to depart, do you think it worth trying EMR via Sheffield as an alternative?

 

[renegademaster]

Gobowen on Saturday before things got bad!!

Is there a rule on how deep standing water can be before the track has to close? Below the railhead?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Looking like Avanti West Coast from Euston timetable is collapsing the 13:33 has yet to depart, do you think it worth trying EMR via Sheffield as an alternative?

Has departed at 14:31, so 58 minutes down. Should have passed Stafford by now, but has only got as far as Tring / Cheddington. What did you decide to do? I'd have probably stuck with Avanti and gone for the Delay Repay.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looking like Avanti West Coast from Euston timetable is collapsing the 13:33 has yet to depart, do you think it worth trying EMR via Sheffield as an alternative?

1H68 left at 1431, so seems to be en route now, an hour down.
The 1433 (1H69) is waiting to go at 1457, but there are 3 other Avanti departures before it, all "at platform".

Realtime Trains | 1H68 1333 London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly | 25/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 1H68 1333 departure from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly on 25/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2024 ==

Looks like TfW now has an hourly shuttle Shrewsbury-Hereford.
No Mk4 sets out today.

 

[65477]

Not unexpectedly Storm Bert has disrupted the West Anglia RHTT today. I could not make sense of the times on RTT

RHTT Times West Anglia

 

[Horizon22]

Not unexpectedly Storm Bert has disrupted the West Anglia RHTT today. I could not make sense of the times on RTT

RHTT Times West Anglia

Looks like another unit may have been subbed in to assist with some of this ones working and the reversals have confused RTT.

 

[Magdalia]

Not unexpectedly Storm Bert has disrupted the West Anglia RHTT today. I could not make sense of the times on RTT

The sense I make of it is as follows:

The first part of the schedule, from Broxbourne to Royston and back to Broxbourne, did not run because the line was blocked between Harlow Town and Bishops Stortford.

It picked up its usual path at Broxbourne just before 1130, running via Seven Sisters to London Fields, then did the Chingford branch as usual.

Reversing again at London Fields it then ran to Cambridge, again via Seven Sisters.

It has just run back to Audley End, reversed, and is now heading back towards Cambridge again. You can watch it on the Open Train Times Map.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2024 ==

Not surprised. There wasn't much confidence in 15:00

But, according to RTT, that's what they did!

 

[rower40]

Not much point in treating the railhead if it's under water. The Sandite will wash straight off...

 

[LAX54]

Is there a rule on how deep standing water can be before the track has to close? Below the railhead?

Rule Book Module M3 Section 4,2
Bottom of Railhead Normal speed
Top of Railhead Max 5mph
Above Top Railhead: Stop pending investigation
At ANY depth if there looks like ballast dislodged or moving: Stop

 

[Magdalia]

Not much point in treating the railhead if it's under water. The Sandite will wash straight off...

The line isn't under water. The blockage was fallen trees.

 

[rower40]

“Leaves on the line” still attached to their tree!

 

[Magdalia]

“Leaves on the line” still attached to their tree!

Yes. One of the features of climate change in this part of the world is that we don't get October frosts any more, so there were a lot of leaves still on the trees when Storm Bert arrived.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The railway at Pennington Beck, which is west of Ulverston station. The image shows a cutting partially full of running water and earth.

I wonder how long it will take to reopen the line?

Line between Lancaster and Barrow-in-Furness *may* possibly be able to re-open as early as tomorrow (Tuesday 26th November 2024) albeit with a temporary speed restriction of 20 m.p.h. through the affected area.

Trains between Barrow and Lancaster to resume after repairs

The Northern service between Lancaster and Barrow was originally feared to be closed until Friday, but will now run again from Tuesday.

www.nwemail.co.uk

Extract...

It was previously said that, following disruption caused by Storm Bert, the line would be closed until Friday morning.

This was after severe flooding in Ulverston brought about through melting snow and heavy rainfall.

However on Monday, Network Rail said the railway is expected to reopen on Tuesday with a speed restriction of 20mph.

 

[Ian1971]

Has departed at 14:31, so 58 minutes down. Should have passed Stafford by now, but has only got as far as Tring / Cheddington. What did you decide to do? I'd have probably stuck with Avanti and gone for the Delay Repay.

The 13:33 was full to bursting, currently on the 14:43 to Liverpool and planning on changing at Crewe may well end up on the the 14:33 there. Had been viewing RTT which suggested that the planned stock for the 14:33 wasn’t going to be there for ages, obviously Avanti decided to use a different unit.
Have beer in hand and applying for a new job so all good

Has departed at 14:31, so 58 minutes down. Should have passed Stafford by now, but has only got as far as Tring / Cheddington. What did you decide to do? I'd have probably stuck with Avanti and gone for the Delay Repay.

i e

 

[Kite159]

SWR from Exeter to London is doing some heavy lifting today. Just got on one at Basingstoke which is now going nonstop to Waterloo. Crammed, but I did manage to snatch a seat in the last coach. Down Exeter trains are not stopping at Woking or Basingstoke. Passengers from here are being advised to catch the stopper to Salisbury and change there.

Although that might be down to the 12:20 service from Waterloo to Exeter being a single 158 as far as Salisbury (when it became a 6 coach service). The 11:20 service (which splited at Salisbury with front 3 to Exeter) was very busy when I left it at Salisbury. I can't see any other references to Down services skipping Woking/Basingstoke, the 11:20 certainly called at those stations as I boarded it at Woking.

I would imagine it ran non-stop to Waterloo not due to overcrowding, but due to being late.

 

[SLC001]

Northampton station closed tomorrow (Tuesday) with no services operating. There is a rail replacement service planned.
One hopes that the reasons for flooding are understood and that work to mitigate the damage in the future can be carried out. There has been a lot of development on the Nene flood plain, the water has to go somewhere and it would appear that it has in the past. So why a problem now?

 

[JKP]

A train goes down the train line to arrive at a train station.... doesn't get much easier than that.

Judging by the videos I have seen from Walsden area, it's more likely to be a submarine making that journey

Does not a train goes along a line to arrive at a station? Why the need to say train more than once?

 

[6Gman]

Does not a train goes along a line to arrive at a station? Why the need to say train more than once?

And doesn't a train go down a railway line in any case?

 

[D6130]

And doesn't a train go down a railway line in any case?

Think we're getting somewhat off-topic here....even though it was my fault in the first place!

 

[Fairbanks]

Returning to the subject of Avanti abandoning north of Carlisle...

I experienced this for myself yesterday (Sunday 24 November 2024) when a EUS-EDI (via Birmingham) 11 coach Pendolini terminated at Preston along with every other northbound Avanti. As I understand from the TPE platform staff this left 5 Pendolino's worth of passengers trying (and mostly failing) to get onto just one 5 car Nova (MAN-EDI).

(It was announced nearer to Preston that TPE would be accepting Avanti tickets.)

Not a nice experience for anyone, including the unlucky TPE travellers who had been enjoying their journey before Preston.... I imagine it got worse as later on as the northbound TPEs were only every two hours, with presumably more Avanti's arriving behind me.

By this time the line north of Carlisle was completely open. I understand Avanti swap all the crewe north and southbound at Preston, and that there are rules around this, but the system seems to have no flexibility in it at all. Even continuing one Pendolino northwards would have have been a massive help to passengers (and presumably helped provide a service back south again from Scotland where problems would have been just as bad in reverse.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

My 2p regarding trees on the line:
It's been quite a while [citation needed] since steam trains stopped dropping cinders on lineside saplings, and there ceased to be an immediate requirement to keep linesides clear of foliage. So the trees that have grown up since then are by now quite large, so when exceptional wind blows them down onto the tracks, they're likely to do more damage, and be more of an obstruction.

If there's one subject on which this gets anywhere close to general agreement, it must be on the need to get reduce the number of lineside trees that drop leaves on the track and/or may fall with potentially fatal consequences. (Type "fallen tree" or "vegetation" into the forum Search box if in doubt!) Getting that done is another question, especially given the issue of "who pays?" (especially with higher standards of safety for trackside workers, compared to past generations) and the complication that the trees are now seen as a highly desirable part of the landscape by many people living near them.

 

[anothertyke]

Northampton station closed tomorrow (Tuesday) with no services operating. There is a rail replacement service planned.
One hopes that the reasons for flooding are understood and that work to mitigate the damage in the future can be carried out. There has been a lot of development on the Nene flood plain, the water has to go somewhere and it would appear that it has in the past. So why a problem now?

Isn't part of the problem the increased intensity of rainfall events so that a 1 in 100 year event becomes a 1 in 10 year event? Also on Saturday we saw temperatures rise from 1C to 12C in five hours. That must be very unusual.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Returning to the subject of Avanti abandoning north of Carlisle...
I experienced this for myself yesterday (Sunday 24 November 2024) when a EUS-EDI (via Birmingham) 11 coach Pendolini terminated at Preston along with every other northbound Avanti. As I understand from the TPE platform staff this left 5 Pendolino's worth of passengers trying (and mostly failing) to get onto just one 5 car Nova (MAN-EDI).
(It was announced nearer to Preston that TPE would be accepting Avanti tickets.)

Not a nice experience for anyone, including the unlucky TPE travellers who had been enjoying their journey before Preston.... I imagine it got worse as later on as the northbound TPEs were only every two hours, with presumably more Avanti's arriving behind me.
By this time the line north of Carlisle was completely open. I understand Avanti swap all the crewe north and southbound at Preston, and that there are rules around this, but the system seems to have no flexibility in it at all. Even continuing one Pendolino northwards would have have been a massive help to passengers (and presumably helped provide a service back south again from Scotland where problems would have been just as bad in reverse.

Anybody with a flexible ticket (not an Advance) could reach Edinburgh via Glasgow, as WCML tickets are valid that way.
So they could use TPE to Glasgow and then on to Edinburgh, which at least increases the options.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

 

[Tim M]

Consequences of Storm Burt and for that matter any disruptive event.

I do wish WestMidlands Trains would train their staff to use sensible sources of train running data. I intended to travel from the Hereford to New Street line yesterday (Sunday) morning. I checked Real Time Trains (RTT), everything seemed ok, but the station departure board said ‘Cancelled’. I used the Help Point and talked to their Customer Services rep, he confirmed the cancellation and together we tried to find an alternative route. Thus I failed to get to the Model Railway event at the NEC. By the time I got home five minutes later the so called cancelled train had called at the station just six minutes late.

So to today. We had a friend staying who needed to go home to Chippenham. The Hereford - Worcester - New Street train was on time, but on arriving at Foregate Street she found that the GWR Worcester - Temple Meads train was also cancelled, station staff confirmed that as fact. Only that just wasn’t true. Being wise after yesterdays debacle I checked the inbound service from Temple Meads on RTT, by the time our friend called us to say she was coming back to us, her train was in the process of turning back at Henwick, and duly arrived and departed on time.

What information sources are WMT staff ‘on the ground’ using? It clearly isn’t real time in any sense of the term, and yet the public can access reality on their smart phones. As Gerry Fiennes wrote ‘I Tried to Run a Railway’.

 

[dk1]

But, according to RTT, that's what they did!

Happy days. Well done Network Rail.

 

[Horizon22]

If there's one subject on which this gets anywhere close to general agreement, it must be on the need to get reduce the number of lineside trees that drop leaves on the track and/or may fall with potentially fatal consequences. (Type "fallen tree" or "vegetation" into the forum Search box if in doubt!) Getting that done is another question, especially given the issue of "who pays?" (especially with higher standards of safety for trackside workers, compared to past generations) and the complication that the trees are now seen as a highly desirable part of the landscape by many people living near them.

Not to mention several are not within the railway boundary. NR still have some powers here, but it is naturally more difficult to manage.

 

[dk1]

Not to mention several are not within the railway boundary. NR still have some powers here, but it is naturally more difficult to manage.

Something you just cannot seem to get through to the keyboard warriors on social media

 

[12LDA28C]

Returning to the subject of Avanti abandoning north of Carlisle...

I experienced this for myself yesterday (Sunday 24 November 2024) when a EUS-EDI (via Birmingham) 11 coach Pendolini terminated at Preston along with every other northbound Avanti. As I understand from the TPE platform staff this left 5 Pendolino's worth of passengers trying (and mostly failing) to get onto just one 5 car Nova (MAN-EDI).

(It was announced nearer to Preston that TPE would be accepting Avanti tickets.)

Not a nice experience for anyone, including the unlucky TPE travellers who had been enjoying their journey before Preston.... I imagine it got worse as later on as the northbound TPEs were only every two hours, with presumably more Avanti's arriving behind me.

By this time the line north of Carlisle was completely open. I understand Avanti swap all the crewe north and southbound at Preston, and that there are rules around this, but the system seems to have no flexibility in it at all. Even continuing one Pendolino northwards would have have been a massive help to passengers (and presumably helped provide a service back south again from Scotland where problems would have been just as bad in reverse.

Welcome to the forum. Whilst you make some valid points, you fail to consider that traincrew (both drivers and guards) are rostered to particular trains and if a driver or guard took a train north of Preston that they were not booked to work then they would potentially not be in position to work their next train back south which would result in the cancellation of another service instead. Once you start moving drivers and guards off their booked trains willy-nilly, the whole service falls apart pretty rapidly.