Nottingham Station: Access to platforms from footbridge

[Warrior2852]

For people arriving on platform two and four wanting to change platforms could a solution be to put in a foot crossing across the tracks at the end of the platforms?

It wouldbe much cheaper and quicker to install compared to adding a new bridge at this end of the station.

Way too busy a station, both in passengers and train traffic, that end is also right next to a depot.

 

[edwin_m]

For people arriving on platform two and four wanting to change platforms could a solution be to put in a foot crossing across the tracks at the end of the platforms?

It wouldbe much cheaper and quicker to install compared to adding a new bridge at this end of the station.

Certainly not. it's basically impossible to put a new foot crossing in, and considering the number of trains moving or standing (and therefore blocking the view of others) this would be genuinely unsafe.

 

[ajp999]

The Gents toilets are currently out of use on Platform 1 / 3 which means a detour back to the main bridge and across to Platform 6 rather than using the more convenient footbridge.

 

[gangrenekid]

Or even just appreciate that they're there to serve the communities, and not the other way around.

Exactly. All this situation and the media coverage says to people is that "railways aren't here to serve you" and "we can inconvenience you whenever we like because it's our railway" . People will carry on using their cars to commute. Nobody wants to be treat like the enemy and like a potential fare dodger when they have to travel.

 

[Skymonster]

So the good news is - assuming that BBC report of 31st October is correct - that three weeks will be up on Wednesday (20th November), the trial period will be over, and Nottingham station will presumably go back to how it was before. Anyone taking bets on the current [temporary] bridge access restrictions being removed? I suspect they’d offered very poor odds.

 

[LowLevel]

So the good news is - assuming that BBC report of 31st October is correct - that three weeks will be up on Wednesday (20th November), the trial period will be over, and Nottingham station will presumably go back to how it was before. Anyone taking bets on the current [temporary] bridge access restrictions being removed? I suspect they’d offered very poor odds.

The trial finishes on the 17th at which point I believe it is intended for the bridge to reopen, at least for now.

Whatever happens they've now got some baseline data to work with and come up with some sort of permanent solution - it isn't just Nottingham that has had changes to ways of working, though it has been the headline grabber.

I suspect if people go back to walking on to trains without paying first and causing trouble on the stations, providing a statistical increase, it will further make the case for permanent changes.

 

[Discuss223]

In fairness in other respects I think people would be surprised just how many of the well heeled commuters who travel from the likes of Bottesford, Lowdham or Newark have been quite happy to wander in via bridge ignoring the TVM, apps etc and have bank cards at the ready to pay on the train, but equally have been happy to walk out at the other end and appreciate a "free"/"stolen" journey if the guard hasn't got to them by getting off time.

That's what Revenue Protection Officers are for. If they choose to ignore purchasing facilities at the station, and board without a ticket - they will either be charged a Penalty Fare (atleast £100) or reported for prosecution under byelaws or the RORA 1889. EMR has Officers based at Derby, Nottingham, London Saint Pancras, Leicester and Sheffield - pretty much all destinations from Nottingham and it's very common to find them onboard checking tickets and serving rightful justice to those who don't have a ticket (or valid alternative). I fully support the harsh penalties on those who are avoiding paying the fare but I feel on balance, a better option would be to have RPOs on trains and keeping the stations an open environment - especially for people who are saying goodbye to relatives boarding a train and assisting them with luggage etc.

 

[tram21]

Something I think is a pretty big problem actually is Crosscountry. Revenue protection is almost non-existent on their trains to Nottingham, so I would imagine quite a few people chance it on their services. I find I normally get a ticket check on EMR services, but Crosscountry almost never, I've done two full runs to Cardiff with nothing the whole way! It must be difficult for EMR to try to make changes to their own operation when others are making it worse.

The best solution for this is to just hire more or better deploy RPOs near Nottingham on the worst lines, and/or do what Northern do and incentivise conductor ticket checking. I know, for example, the local lines around Leeds have very low fare evasion because there's so many revenue blocks at local stations and on trains as well, we just need to have that around Nottingham.

 

[Discuss223]

Something I think is a pretty big problem actually is Crosscountry. Revenue protection is almost non-existent on their trains to Nottingham, so I would imagine quite a few people chance it on their services. I find I normally get a ticket check on EMR services, but Crosscountry almost never, I've done two full runs to Cardiff with nothing the whole way! It must be difficult for EMR to try to make changes to their own operation when others are making it worse.

The best solution for this is to just hire more or better deploy RPOs near Nottingham on the worst lines, and/or do what Northern do and incentivise conductor ticket checking. I know, for example, the local lines around Leeds have very low fare evasion because there's so many revenue blocks at local stations and on trains as well, we just need to have that around Nottingham.

I think at CrossCountry, there are two specialist Revenue roles - a Revenue Protection Officer and a Revenue Support Specialist. I believe some, if not all of the former work via a company called Transport Investigations. On Turbostar routes, I've found they tend to concentrate most of their efforts on the Birmingahm-Leicester-Stansted route because of it being so popular with commuters. It's all academic though, as CrossCountry's lost revenue will have minimal impact on East Midlands Railway, bar a fraction of sales from Beeston, Long Eaton - where East Midlands Railway regularly deploy Officers on their own services, so there is some deterrent there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2024 ==

I merge to add, a general post, not specific to your posting @tram21 , that Northern now also have several Revenue Protection Officers for their "Hallam Line Express" services and a Penalty Fare scheme in place that's compatible with E M R Penalty Fare stations. Put simply, if Northern were concerned about revenue loss from Nottingham station, they would send some more Officers on the route - they have the resources. The trial is by East Midlands Railway and intended to benefit E M R by majority. E M R have a strong crew of R P Os to check tickets on trains and issue Penalty Fares/Reports For Prosecution. Most, if not all stations immediately after Nottingham on EMR services are Penalty Fare stations. Station security is also improved with "Travel Safe Officers" (security) and Nottingham Station is a hub for the British Transport Police, who work to tackle anti-social behaviour on the railways.

 

[ChrisC]

Something I think is a pretty big problem actually is Crosscountry. Revenue protection is almost non-existent on their trains to Nottingham, so I would imagine quite a few people chance it on their services. I find I normally get a ticket check on EMR services, but Crosscountry almost never, I've done two full runs to Cardiff with nothing the whole way! It must be difficult for EMR to try to make changes to their own operation when others are making it worse.

The best solution for this is to just hire more or better deploy RPOs near Nottingham on the worst lines, and/or do what Northern do and incentivise conductor ticket checking. I know, for example, the local lines around Leeds have very low fare evasion because there's so many revenue blocks at local stations and on trains as well, we just need to have that around Nottingham.

I travelled from Cardiff to Nottingham a few weeks ago and was very surprised that I never had my ticket checked during the whole journey. EMR on most routes are very good at checking tickets but I don‘t understand why ticket inspections on the Robin Hood Line are not so regular as they once were. I did a return journey between Hucknall and Worksop recently and did not have my ticket checked. I’ve been on a number of busy trains into Nottingham on the Robin Hood Line where there has been no attempt to check tickets with the guard remaining in the rear cab. These trains then arrive at the centre of Platform 1 at Notttingham with the majority of passengers then exiting via the central bridge.

 

[LowLevel]

That's what Revenue Protection Officers are for. If they choose to ignore purchasing facilities at the station, and board without a ticket - they will either be charged a Penalty Fare (atleast £100) or reported for prosecution under byelaws or the RORA 1889. EMR has Officers based at Derby, Nottingham, London Saint Pancras, Leicester and Sheffield - pretty much all destinations from Nottingham and it's very common to find them onboard checking tickets and serving rightful justice to those who don't have a ticket (or valid alternative). I fully support the harsh penalties on those who are avoiding paying the fare but I feel on balance, a better option would be to have RPOs on trains and keeping the stations an open environment - especially for people who are saying goodbye to relatives boarding a train and assisting them with luggage etc.

Is it? What does a Revenue Protection Officer do when a down and out walks in, gets on a train/walks straight into the toilet and is travelling to the likes of Mansfield/Newark/Burton/Chesterfield or indeed the suburban stations in Birmingham avoiding the barriers at New Street where there's no back up or barriers and when challenged says nothing at all or "I've got no money, I'm not giving my details, bye"?

Compliant fare evaders, sure - not so easy with those who won't go work with your processes, it's them that you have to physically prevent from accessing the railway in the first place.

I honestly don't need a lecture in how to deal with fare evaders, I've been a train conductor in the area for many years.

Follow a Revenue Protection team to Worksop, it can be like watching a dust up in an American West saloon bar.

Out of interest, how would you deal with someone who has walked into the open station, boarded a train and is now refusing to engage with the staff/actually behaving in a threatening manner?

I travelled from Cardiff to Nottingham a few weeks ago and was very surprised that I never had my ticket checked during the whole journey. EMR on most routes are very good at checking tickets but I don‘t understand why ticket inspections on the Robin Hood Line are not so regular as they once were. I did a return journey between Hucknall and Worksop recently and did not have my ticket checked. I’ve been on a number of busy trains into Nottingham on the Robin Hood Line where there has been no attempt to check tickets with the guard remaining in the rear cab. These trains then arrive at the centre of Platform 1 at Notttingham with the majority of passengers then exiting via the central bridge.

There's two issues. One is the 3 car 170/2s have a distinct lack of guards panels (back cab and one end of the middle car only) and are extremely hard work to cover, you basically struggle to get into the front coach if the centre car panel is at the rear of it and on a busy train it's hopeless. They're being modified next year to make them easier to work with more guards panels.

Second is that there is a general malaise amongst the conductors regarding dealing with some of the more difficult "customers" on the route with little to no options to deal with them when they get nasty. Gangs of feral kids, the local druggies riding around (lost my ticket) and the likes. Hucknall to Mansfield in the early evening is particularly miserable.

With these days of apps and TVMs rather than selling tickets to people who don't mind paying the conductors now spend more time squeaking the difficult few quid out of those who very much don't want to pay and quite often just refuse and unlike most routes in the area there is significant local traffic that just enters and exits at the unstaffed stations like Hucknall and Mansfield.

Getting assaulted dealing with them is not the popular option and there has several staff members hurt and trains damaged in the process.

Short of having a team of coppers available to descend on the scrotes with 5 minutes notice and physically drag them away it's a hard nut to crack.

Something I think is a pretty big problem actually is Crosscountry. Revenue protection is almost non-existent on their trains to Nottingham, so I would imagine quite a few people chance it on their services. I find I normally get a ticket check on EMR services, but Crosscountry almost never, I've done two full runs to Cardiff with nothing the whole way! It must be difficult for EMR to try to make changes to their own operation when others are making it worse.

The best solution for this is to just hire more or better deploy RPOs near Nottingham on the worst lines, and/or do what Northern do and incentivise conductor ticket checking. I know, for example, the local lines around Leeds have very low fare evasion because there's so many revenue blocks at local stations and on trains as well, we just need to have that around Nottingham.

I have no idea what has happened to XC and ticket checking on the 170s. It appears to have turned into a shambles that smells of poor management.

I've been on plenty of their trains - in the last 20 or so journeys I've seen 1 guard checking tickets, the rest have hurried through at speed every now and then clicking a counter doing a passenger count as if that's productive work and remained firmly in the back cab otherwise just making announcements.

 

[edwin_m]

The trial is by East Midlands Railway and intended to benefit E M R by majority.

Presumably under GBR such a trial would be assessed by the benefits accruing to all the routes from Nottingham, which is more likely to give the answer that it's worthwhile.

I have no idea what has happened to XC and ticket checking on the 170s. It appears to have turned into a shambles that smells of poor management.

I've been on plenty of their trains - in the last 20 or so journeys I've seen 1 guard checking tickets, the rest have hurried through at speed every now and then clicking a counter doing a passenger count as if that's productive work and remained firmly in the back cab otherwise just making announcements.

Similar experience, and also the placing of reservation tickets on the Cardiff trains seems to have ceased although a fellow passenger did tell me they'd seen some recently. Along with planned and unplanned cancellations there does seem to be a general lack of management interest in the XC Turbostar routes, but that's probably another topic.

 

[kevjs]

I used it the other day. It's the most pleasant and convenient route from the centre of town (around Weekday Cross) to get to the Cattle Market and cross the river on Lady Bay bridge. I was quite surprised by how many people were using it as a through route, with no access to the platforms.


If it's costing that much, then it would be economic to build a dedicated 80m long footbridge to carry the RoW across the station.

I used to use that regularly from Hockley down Middle Hill Lane, across Queen's Drive, down Summer Ley's Lane, Meadows Way West and onto Radcliffe Road - the most direct route.

There's also a lot more residential in that area (two new buildings opened right next to the station in recent years), and brownfield land for more. Said accommodation actually means it's impossible to rebuild the former bridge on the existing alignment, and even a shorter one would be right next to people's windows so probably less than ideal.

ISTR that the City Council are also aiming to install a pedestrian crossing across Queen's Drive in the vicinity of Summer Leys Lane when the funding allows.

In this case the deviation isn't exactly mind blowing in terms of going via London Road or Carrington Street - I might just time it for the purpose of science!

The crossings outside Hooters take an absolute age to negotiate on foot, and the Cattle Market Road junction has no crossing lights making that decidedly sketchy (even more so than Queen's Drive as you can't see turning traffic very well). That route is also a lot lot quieter than walking down London Road.

The mentions of the lack of a footpath on the NET bridge is typical of their shortcomings too - both the ramp from the station to Meadows Way and the bridge from NG2 to Lenton Lane see persistent use by pedestrians. In the grand scheme of things it would have been peanuts to provide additional space to improve the walking routes on both of those. A bit of a pattern of short term penny pinching causing longer term issues.

 

[Trainman40083]

I nearly always used the footbridge in question, either after the train or to catch it. Every single time, I have had a valid ticket. It was just the most convenient access point.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Presumably under GBR such a trial would be assessed by the benefits accruing to all the routes from Nottingham, which is more likely to give the answer that it's worthwhile.

Similar experience, and also the placing of reservation tickets on the Cardiff trains seems to have ceased although a fellow passenger did tell me they'd seen some recently. Along with planned and unplanned cancellations there does seem to be a general lack of management interest in the XC Turbostar routes, but that's probably another topic.

XC are binning seat reservations on the Turbostar routes and moving to "counted place" reservations. Don't have the date to hand, although this is straying off topic now anyway.

Is it? What does a Revenue Protection Officer do when a down and out walks in, gets on a train/walks straight into the toilet and is travelling to the likes of Mansfield/Newark/Burton/Chesterfield or indeed the suburban stations in Birmingham avoiding the barriers at New Street where there's no back up or barriers and when challenged says nothing at all or "I've got no money, I'm not giving my details, bye"?

Compliant fare evaders, sure - not so easy with those who won't go work with your processes, it's them that you have to physically prevent from accessing the railway in the first place.

I honestly don't need a lecture in how to deal with fare evaders, I've been a train conductor in the area for many years.

Follow a Revenue Protection team to Worksop, it can be like watching a dust up in an American West saloon bar.

Out of interest, how would you deal with someone who has walked into the open station, boarded a train and is now refusing to engage with the staff/actually behaving in a threatening manner?

This is what all the "just do more ticket checks onboard" arguments are missing. Maybe you could throw daft sums of money at employing an absolute army of RPOs and security staff, but you'd probably then end up with an argument of it being a "heavy handed" and "disproportionate" approach to recouping £7 or £8 in evaded revenue (ignoring the fact that there are almost certainly more instances of fare evasion occuring on the same train, but all the resource will be taken up dealing with just the one offender. Maybe the railway should do nothing and just let them keep getting away with it

 

[duffield]

Something I think is a pretty big problem actually is Crosscountry. Revenue protection is almost non-existent on their trains to Nottingham, so I would imagine quite a few people chance it on their services. I find I normally get a ticket check on EMR services, but Crosscountry almost never, I've done two full runs to Cardiff with nothing the whole way! It must be difficult for EMR to try to make changes to their own operation when others are making it worse.

The best solution for this is to just hire more or better deploy RPOs near Nottingham on the worst lines, and/or do what Northern do and incentivise conductor ticket checking. I know, for example, the local lines around Leeds have very low fare evasion because there's so many revenue blocks at local stations and on trains as well, we just need to have that around Nottingham.

Yes, Cross Country are very, very poor for ticket checking. 95%+ of EMR services I get checked, 95%+ of Cross Country 170 services I don't, the contrast is that stark.

 

[ChrisC]

There's two issues. One is the 3 car 170/2s have a distinct lack of guards panels (back cab and one end of the middle car only) and are extremely hard work to cover, you basically struggle to get into the front coach if the centre car panel is at the rear of it and on a busy train it's hopeless. They're being modified next year to make them easier to work with more guards panels.

Second is that there is a general malaise amongst the conductors regarding dealing with some of the more difficult "customers" on the route with little to no options to deal with them when they get nasty. Gangs of feral kids, the local druggies riding around (lost my ticket) and the likes. Hucknall to Mansfield in the early evening is particularly miserable.

With these days of apps and TVMs rather than selling tickets to people who don't mind paying the conductors now spend more time squeaking the difficult few quid out of those who very much don't want to pay and quite often just refuse and unlike most routes in the area there is significant local traffic that just enters and exits at the unstaffed stations like Hucknall and Mansfield.

Getting assaulted dealing with them is not the popular option and there has several staff members hurt and trains damaged in the process.

Short of having a team of coppers available to descend on the scrotes with 5 minutes notice and physically drag them away it's a hard nut to crack.

Thanks @LowLevel for your detailed explanation of the problems on the Robin Hood Line. I fully understand the problems having seen gangs of feral kids just a few weeks ago boarding a train with bikes at Mansfield and getting off at Kirkby. There are certain trains from Nottingham early evening Friday and Saturday that I have avoided for years because of the clientele using them. Even if I am travelling back from a few days away I would rather walk across Nottingham and get a bus to complete my journey. I hadn’t realised the problems with the 3 car 170/2s.

I know from reading your posts in the past that you are one of the more active EMR guards regarding checking tickets and selling tickets on the train. However, I would not want any rail staff to be a victim of any violence as a result of trying to get people to pay up. It’s just annoying for those
like myself who always travel with a valid ticket to know that some people are not. Before the TVMs were installed I always found staff very pro active in coming through the train selling tickets. I just wonder if now it’s not happening so regularly more people are taking advantage of not paying. I don’t mean the feral kids and the druggies, as they will never pay, but people who would actually pay with no problems if challenged. I agree with you on the Robin Hood Line it’s a hard nut to crack.

 

[Discuss223]

Out of interest, how would you deal with someone who has walked into the open station, boarded a train and is now refusing to engage with the staff/actually behaving in a threatening manner?

Many RPOs these days are Rail Safety Accreditation Scheme accredited, so they can take a much more effective line with those being abusive/threatening - as well as ticketing issues, they have more power and training to deal with anti-social behaviour and as you will know being a Conductor, they have tactical vests and body-worn CCTV which can be used to secure prosecutions and work as a deterrent for assaults. This is an extract from the company that supplied them. https://scottishcommunications.com/case-studies/east-midlands-trains/

The Client​

East Midlands Trains is a national train operator that serves passengers traveling through London, East of England and the North.

Why Did They Approach Scottish Communications Group?​

We began working with East Midlands Trains after successfully winning a tender to supply Body Worn CCTV.

Our Solution​

We worked closely with East Midlands Trains to develop a Body Worn CCTV system that could meet their needs. Key challenges we faced during this project:

• High Quality Imagery – It was vital that the images that were captured from the devices were of sufficient quality that they could be used in court as evidence.
• Disparate User Stations– Due to the nature of the company, we were required to develop a user solution that could be implemented across the entire East Midlands Trains station network.
• Low Maintenance – We were asked to develop a system that was low maintenance and robust and could be comfortably used on a daily basis by staff.

The Result​

We developed a Body Worn CCTV system that fully suited the needs of East Midlands Trains. We engaged with the company and staff to provide comprehensive training, and the company has recently approached us to provide further units testifying to the success of the programme.

The RPOs specialise in difficult situations that have potential bring conflict. To answer your question, having RPOs on trains will deal with fare evaders robustly. Some EMR services that are known for fare evasion and anti-social behaviour, such as the Robin Hood Line also have security staff onboard to support the Guard in his duties. It's proven to be effective. Last year, East Midlands Railway successfully prosecuted 1,470 fare evaders in court. Customer Service Director Nick Grabham said;- "We have recently added to our revenue protection teams and created a totally new fraud team, all of whom will be doing everything they can to reduce ticketless travel and hold persistent offenders to account.’’https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/help-manage/about-us/news-press/fare-dodging-emr-recovers-nearly-half-a-million-pounds-from#:~:text=From January 1 to October,combined total of £493,000.

• Close to 10,000 unpaid fares recovered
• More than 1,470 fines progressed to court
• EMR committed to tackle fare evasion which ultimately costs rail customers and taxpayers

East Midlands Railway (EMR) has recovered nearly half a million pounds from fining or taking to court fraudulent travellers in the past ten months - helping reduce costs for taxpayers.

From January 1 to October 13, its Revenue Protections Officer and onboard staff have issued 9,642 Notices and successfully prosecuted 1,470 fare avoiders through the courts - returning a combined total of £493,000.

The fines and prosecutions were made for a number of reasons, including travelling without a valid ticket, fraudulently travelling on a child's ticket, and travelling beyond the destination of their ticket.

@LowLevel There are resources to back-up Conductors in situations of conflict. I have also been on trains where the Conductor has arranged for BTP to attend the train and remove the disruptive passenger/unpaid passenger.


It's a matter of balance. EMR should protect their revenue but also provide a pleasant travelling experience for their paying customers. Many posts on this thread suggest that paying customers aren't happy with the trial at Nottingham and their feedback needs to be considered - after all, no custom base means no business.

 

[LowLevel]

Many RPOs these days are Rail Safety Accreditation Scheme accredited, so they can take a much more effective line with those being abusive/threatening - as well as ticketing issues, they have more power and training to deal with anti-social behaviour and as you will know being a Conductor, they have tactical vests and body-worn CCTV which can be used to secure prosecutions and work as a deterrent for assaults. This is an extract from the company that supplied them. https://scottishcommunications.com/case-studies/east-midlands-trains/


The RPOs specialise in difficult situations that have potential bring conflict. To answer your question, having RPOs on trains will deal with fare evaders robustly. Some EMR services that are known for fare evasion and anti-social behaviour, such as the Robin Hood Line also have security staff onboard to support the Guard in his duties. It's proven to be effective. Last year, East Midlands Railway successfully prosecuted 1,470 fare evaders in court. Customer Service Director Nick Grabham said;- "We have recently added to our revenue protection teams and created a totally new fraud team, all of whom will be doing everything they can to reduce ticketless travel and hold persistent offenders to account.’’https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/help-manage/about-us/news-press/fare-dodging-emr-recovers-nearly-half-a-million-pounds-from#:~:text=From January 1 to October,combined total of £493,000.

@LowLevel There are resources to back-up Conductors in situations of conflict. I have also been on trains where the Conductor has arranged for BTP to attend the train and remove the disruptive passenger/unpaid passenger.


It's a matter of balance. EMR should protect their revenue but also provide a pleasant travelling experience for their paying customers. Many posts on this thread suggest that paying customers aren't happy with the trial at Nottingham and their feedback needs to be considered - after all, no custom base means no business.

They have no more power or ability to deal with anti social behaviour than the guard, who can also wear body worn video cameras. The tactical vest is nothing more than a sling to carry their things - it's not a stab vest or anything like that.

Both the guards and RPOs work to a hands off policy and police assistance is required to physically remove offenders. Some TOCs have the likes of byelaw enforcement officers (usually contractors supplied by a security company) who will get hands on with aggressive or non compliant passengers (see Merseyrail) - EMR RPOs do not fall into this category. They are PACE trained for recording evidence and that is the only difference in terms of managing anti social behaviour to a guard.

I've been working closely with revenue protection teams for many years, I know precisely what they and I can and cannot do.

With regards to BTP, if they happen to be at your location, that's marvellous. They are most unlikely to appear at Newark Castle or Mansfield without a substantial wait and that's if they're not otherwise deployed.

Having spent the last 10 plus years as the guard of these train services I am quite intimately acquainted with the realities of the subject matter.

The "Travel Safe Officers" are also hands off except in an emergency and again whilst safety in numbers often applies I've never found them to be any more effective than any other member of railway staff in dealing with conflict.

What I have said too though hasn't changed - I see both sides and I don't wish to make genuine customer's lives more difficult.

 

[Discuss223]

With these days of apps and TVMs rather than selling tickets to people who don't mind paying the conductors now spend more time squeaking the difficult few quid out of those who very much don't want to pay and quite often just refuse and unlike most routes in the area there is significant local traffic that just enters and exits at the unstaffed stations like Hucknall and Mansfield.

I agree with you on that point. It's a particular problem on Northern, for example I got on a train at Leeds and a woman hadn't bought a ticket yet (despite there being barriers at the station), the train set off and the Conductor explained that she couldn't purchase an Advance ticket for this train as the cut off time had already passed. When she looked in her Envo and pulled up the only fare of over £20, she let the woman travel free. The woman didn't at all seem worried about not having a ticket, nor did she even thank the Conductor. There are a lot of things wrong with E-ticketing and Mobile tickets. Northern have now taken a tough line over M-tickets and the endless excuses people bring for not having paid. https://media.northernrailway.co.uk/news/no-battery-no-excuse-the-fare-dodger-defence-that-falls-flat-with-ticket-inspectors#:~:text=Northern is urging customers using,unable to satisfy ticket checks. Below is a quote from a press release at Northern. EMR should, if not already be taking a similar line and excepting no silly excuses. As you know, there is the option to submit a TI report or UPFN and let the prosecution department consider evidence, I also believe some EMR Conductors and Train Managers based out of Nottingham wear body worn cameras which can help to gather evidence. A strict liability byelaw offence has been committed if someone boards a train at Nottingham, where purchasing facilities exist and doesn't have a ticket.

No battery, no excuse: The fare-dodger defence that falls flat with ticket inspectors​

Northern is urging customers using digital tickets on their services to ensure they always have sufficient battery power to present their ticket for inspection – or face a £100 penalty fare.
“I’ve got a ticket but my phone has died” is an increasingly popular excuse given by those unable to satisfy ticket checks.
Unable to distinguish between genuine customers caught ‘power short’ and those deliberately attempting to fare-evade, the train operator’s conductors and revenue officers have no option but to issue the national penalty fare, which has recently increased to £100

 

[ajp999]

The footbridge has reopened this morning.

 

[DDB]

The footbridge has reopened this morning.

But the only information screen on the bridge appears to be broken so people can't find out what platform their train is.
Could be a coincidence but high RPI presence on my train this morning.

 

[Discuss223]

But the only information screen on the bridge appears to be broken so people can't find out what platform their train is.
Could be a coincidence but high RPI presence on my train this morning.

As a customer, I'd rather have my ticket checked inside the train, where I can sit down and get my ticket out and not have to worry about it blowing away or me losing it or something else important as I scramble in my pocket.

 

[50002Superb]

Managed to avoid what would have been an awful experience on Friday evening.

Was booked on the 6.10pm to St Pancras scheduled from Platform 6, and was at the station in plenty of time (about 5.40) so headed to the cafe half way up the platform to grab hot drinks and snacks and a seat.

We had two suitcases and two bags. I kept an eye on RTT and noted that the incoming service was due in at 5.50 but there was clearly an issue with the train already in that platform.

There are no announcement screens in the cafe and you can’t hear any verbal announcements but being relatively switched on at the time I took a brief walk at about 5.55 to the screens outside to note that the departure had been moved to platform seven.

Thus ensued a rush back to the cafe to collect my partner and bags to then go back to the end stairs, across the bridge and back down on to platform 7.

Clearly not everyone would know how to track their incoming trains, and not everyone would be able to physically move two cases and two bags as quickly as someone of my age, so can only see these type of situations causing real issues for some travellers.

Also, on our return on Sunday, the queue to exit (there was only three working barriers) simply couldn’t handle the volume of passengers from a ten carriage arrival from St Pancras.

I can fully understand why the bridge is being closed but surely they need to make further changes to the infrastructure to properly make this work?

 

[duffield]

Managed to avoid what would have been an awful experience on Friday evening.

Was booked on the 6.10pm to St Pancras scheduled from Platform 6, and was at the station in plenty of time (about 5.40) so headed to the cafe half way up the platform to grab hot drinks and snacks and a seat.

We had two suitcases and two bags. I kept an eye on RTT and noted that the incoming service was due in at 5.50 but there was clearly an issue with the train already in that platform.

There are no announcement screens in the cafe and you can’t hear any verbal announcements but being relatively switched on at the time I took a brief walk at about 5.55 to the screens outside to note that the departure had been moved to platform seven.

Thus ensued a rush back to the cafe to collect my partner and bags to then go back to the end stairs, across the bridge and back down on to platform 7.

Clearly not everyone would know how to track their incoming trains, and not everyone would be able to physically move two cases and two bags as quickly as someone of my age, so can only see these type of situations causing real issues for some travellers.

Also, on our return on Sunday, the queue to exit (there was only three working barriers) simply couldn’t handle the volume of passengers from a ten carriage arrival from St Pancras.

I can fully understand why the bridge is being closed but surely they need to make further changes to the infrastructure to properly make this work?

When I used to commute daily from Nottingham, my train was regularly (sometimes every day) changed to another platform across the bridge as little as *one minute* before it was due to depart. If the bridge had been closed then, the vast majority of passengers would have been left behind (or the train would have been regularly delayed). When arriving at or leaving the station, having the bridge closed can be inconvenient but basically means just allowing a few minutes extra; but when getting a tight connection or a re-platformed service, the difference is much more critical and likely to lead to a missed train and a wait of maybe an hour.

Anyhow, they've done their experiment, now we wait while EMR digest the results. Maybe with all the pushback they will come up with a better solution.

 

[LowLevel]

Meanwhile, after 3 weeks of comparative peace and quiet and very few issues, within 3 days of it being reopened we are back to:

On the trains:

Belligerent kids (my mum is sending me my ticket, which never appears)

Druggies on runs (I've got no money, you'll have to fine me)

"I've just got out of hospital/a police cell/I've lost my wallet/my phone is dead"

Beggars on the platforms.

Vagrants in the toilets.

The difference is nIght and day. Regardless of the more sophisticated fare evaders, these particular trouble makers just didn't bother when they couldn't get in.

Therefore the solution needs to prevent general access to the station by anyone who takes their fancy, whilst not overly inconveniencing everyone else.

Tricky!

 

[50002Superb]

When I used to commute daily from Nottingham, my train was regularly (sometimes every day) changed to another platform across the bridge as little as *one minute* before it was due to depart. If the bridge had been closed then, the vast majority of passengers would have been left behind (or the train would have been regularly delayed). When arriving at or leaving the station, having the bridge closed can be inconvenient but basically means just allowing a few minutes extra; but when getting a tight connection or a re-platformed service, the difference is much more critical and likely to lead to a missed train and a wait of maybe an hour.

Anyhow, they've done their experiment, now we wait while EMR digest the results. Maybe with all the pushback they will come up with a better solution.

The additional point to consider is that if you miss your train due to those circumstances and you are booked on an advanced ticket then you’d presumably need to pay again to travel on the next train?

 

[duffield]

The additional point to consider is that if you miss your train due to those circumstances and you are booked on an advanced ticket then you’d presumably need to pay again to travel on the next train?

I assume you're talking about the case where you are arriving on one train and then changing to a different service on which you have an advance booking? In that case, if you are on an official itinerary and your incoming train arrives with at least the official connection time remaining (7 minutes has been quoted) you should have enough time to change regardless of whether the footbridge is open; if your incoming train is delayed such that you have less than the official connection time and miss the connection as a result, whether this is due to the footbridge being closed or not should not affect the situation - I understand (but am not an expert in these matters) you should be able to travel on the next train without buying a new ticket and also potentially claim delay repay. Of course, if you're relying on an unofficial connection with tickets bought not as part of an itinerary then yes, you would have to buy a new ticket as you would if you missed your advance booking by turning up late at the station.

Or to put it more concisely, the footbridge being closed increases the chances of you missing your connection but shouldn't cause you to have to buy a new ticket as a result (as long as you have an official connection).

 

[Nottingham59]

I assume you're talking about the case where you are arriving on one train and then changing to a different service on which you have an advance booking?

I think the specific issue was a late platform change at the start of the journey.

 

[Trainman40083]

I assume you're talking about the case where you are arriving on one train and then changing to a different service on which you have an advance booking? In that case, if you are on an official itinerary and your incoming train arrives with at least the official connection time remaining (7 minutes has been quoted) you should have enough time to change regardless of whether the footbridge is open; if your incoming train is delayed such that you have less than the official connection time and miss the connection as a result, whether this is due to the footbridge being closed or not should not affect the situation - I understand (but am not an expert in these matters) you should be able to travel on the next train without buying a new ticket and also potentially claim delay repay. Of course, if you're relying on an unofficial connection with tickets bought not as part of an itinerary then yes, you would have to buy a new ticket as you would if you missed your advance booking by turning up late at the station.

Or to put it more concisely, the footbridge being closed increases the chances of you missing your connection but shouldn't cause you to have to buy a new ticket as a result (as long as you have an official connection).

I guess that gets more complicated, when people use split tickets.