STN commuter
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Never mind 12, I remember the hassle when they tried to extend the country platforms up to Cambridge to 8 coach working from 4!
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Class 379 Miscellanea
- Thread starter Kingfisher200262
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Never mind 12, I remember the hassle when they tried to extend the country platforms up to Cambridge to 8 coach working from 4!
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12 car is planned for December for Cambridge peak services- though I'm not sure if those will then skip Broxbourne and Chesunt? Work is underway at Cambridge to add a 12-car island, and Whittlesford, Audley End, Bishops Stortford and Tottenham Hale are all already long enough (plus others?).
O L Leigh
Established Member
That's the problem with running 12 car services. Unless they can get the SDO working properly on the Cl379s it means that they will have to be limited stop services which will only service to reduce capacity at certain stations. Broxbourne and Cheshunt may not seem vitally important in the wider scheme of things, but they are both busy stations and both interchanges. If you permit 12 car services without SDO to run a limited stop service they will only soak up paths and provide a less useful service.
A better start would be ensuring that existing 4 car services to/from Camdbridge, Hertford and Stratford are strengthened up to 8 cars, at least until Bombardier can figure out how to get the SDO to work reliably. At the moment the Cl379s are running without it and any attempt to switch the system back on just creates faults, failures and huge delays.
O L Leigh
A better start would be ensuring that existing 4 car services to/from Camdbridge, Hertford and Stratford are strengthened up to 8 cars, at least until Bombardier can figure out how to get the SDO to work reliably. At the moment the Cl379s are running without it and any attempt to switch the system back on just creates faults, failures and huge delays.
O L Leigh
some (not all) though of the Cambridge 4-car services continue/start to/from Ely/Kings Lynn and call at Waterbeach- which is four car isn't it?
Certainly at least one, if not both, of Chesunt and Broxbourne ideally needs to be 12 car- for interchange purposes Chesunt would be preffered (having Southbury loop terminators), but Broxbourne would presumably be much more practical to extend?
Is Harlow Town 12-car ready?
Certainly at least one, if not both, of Chesunt and Broxbourne ideally needs to be 12 car- for interchange purposes Chesunt would be preffered (having Southbury loop terminators), but Broxbourne would presumably be much more practical to extend?
Is Harlow Town 12-car ready?
O L Leigh
Established Member
Yup. But these services often combine or divide at Cambridge making them 8's south of there, so there's nothing to prevent them from combining to make a 12.
Neither. Both stations would require pointwork, OLE structures and signals to be moved to accommodate the additional platform length. Of the two Cheshunt is probably marginally easier, but we really are just talking about degrees of difficulty.
Again, yup.
O L Leigh
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allticketspls
Member
Has anyone got any info on what 379's are currently working together or are they coupled up ad hoc in the mornings?
Any help would be appreciated.
Any help would be appreciated.
Tottenham Flyer
Member
From what I've seen, they don't get swapped around very much. It always seems the same pair are together. It must be when they return to Ilford for maintenance they get swapped around. 317's were always getting swapped around here there and everywhere.
I'll post whats paired to what tomorrow morning when I get to work.....
019 & 021 were together yesterday... that's all I can remember.
007 & 017 were together for ages at one point, but they're separated now.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
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I guess so. The platform extension plans for Broxbourne are available on line via Broxbourne BC planning website - Ref 07/10/0418/LB. (I don't think you can link directly to individual applications though, you'd have to search.)
What they intend to do is extend just the platform 2 and 3 faces, with fencing to the opposite sides against the P1 and P4 tracks once the width reduces to less than 2.5m. The majority of the extensions are at the country end, the down platform gets 18 m (south) and 57 m (north), the up platform is similarly 15 m and 60 m longer. Doesn't seem to be any mention of track changes in the supporting bumph.
NR reckon this job is at Grip 6 for completion between August and December.
swt_passenger
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I reckon that's about the most surprising thing I saw too; apparently the whole station is listed Grade II!
Suppose someone must like concrete a lot... :roll:
Found the listing details: http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-506687-broxbourne-railway-station-hoddesdon
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Aictos
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The 379s aren't fully under DOO dispatch just yet, they are capable and should be CD/RA at staffed stations like the 377s are over on the Thameslink route but from what I understand it's a basically blow a whistle to warn passengers to stand clear of the doors, put your arm up to indicate to the driver that it's now okay to close the doors then as soon as the driver gets interlock then off they go.
I don't agree with the current practices as it should either be fully DOO with the driver using the onboard CCTV cameras to dispatch themselves or Assisted DOO with platform staff giving the driver the CD to close the doors then RA to depart.
Obviously this wouldn't apply to the 317s, 315s, 360s etc....
O L Leigh
Established Member
There are restrictions on how Cl379s can be formed up at present. They were built for GSM-R only, but the GSM-R system has been delayed due to technical issues with the lineside equipment. Therefore the Cl379s are having to use portable CSR sets. Problem is that there is only a limited number so there is a set in one end of each unit and not the other. Therefore units have to be formed up carefully so that the non-CSR cabs are "buried" into the middle of the formation.
Not quite correct.
The Cl379s are being dispatched normally at Liv St and Stansted Airport with CD/RA, but not at Bishops Stortford, Harlow Town and, I'm fairly sure, Tottenham Hale (stands to be corrected), even when staff are present to dispatch. In fact, platform staff don't seem to get involved with Cl379 dispatch at all, not even to blow a whistle.
I'm not a great fan of this idea either. If it's a staffed station I think that ALL trains should be dispatched with CD/RA where staff are present to do so. The fact that a train may or may not have DOO CCTV really doesn't make a lot of difference to me.
O L Leigh
STN commuter
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My normal train (0615 ex SSD) this morning was comprised of 023 and 025.
That's the highest numbered pair I've seen so far and didn't look like they have been in service very long (very few scuff marks on the yellow warning strips in the doorway).
Tottenham Flyer
Member
Stansted Express services today consist of:
317710 & 317664
317722 & 317654
379011 & 379012
379007 & 379014
317719 & 317732
317708 & 317714
379010 & 379018
379023 & 379024
379005 & 379013
allticketspls
Member
Cheers for your help guys, very much appreciated.
tbtc
Veteran Member
I take it the 317s displaced from Stansted Express duties will just go to lengthen other services? Nothing is being withdrawn/ no additional services?
STN commuter
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I may have been mistaken (it was early), but I could have sworn it was 023/ 025 I got on at 0600 this morning......:-?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And the good news is, there is therefore only a 1 in 9 chance I will have to get on a 317/6 this evening......(2 in 9 chance the set will have a 317/6 in, and 50/50 that it will be the back half
).Hell, I might even get to be on a 379 'down' for the very first time......:eek:
87015
Established Member
Cambridge, Ely and King Lynn diagrams from next week I'm told, including an all day Cambridge circuit. Be interesting to see if its a four car on its own or an eight.
Tottenham Flyer
Member
I take back everything I said about the 379's not working Cambridge services until December:
The plan is:
To London:
0618 from Kings Lynn (4 car from Kings Lynn, 8 car from Cambridge)
0748 from Cambridge
0802 from Ely (4 car only)
1132 from Cambridge
1432 from Cambridge
1451 from Cambridge
1751 from Cambridge
1951 from Cambridge
Towards Cambridge (all times from Liverpool St)
0558, 0928, 0958, 1258, 1558, 1628, 1813, 1928
Also 0722 & 1824 Cambridge to Ely services.
This plan is subject to change.
Nothing is being withdrawn, all the units will be staying with NXEA.
I think the plan is the 317/8 will stay on the WA side to strengthen services, plus 379s doing Cambridge circuits will free up other 317s too.
I believe the May timetable has seen a number of existing WA services strengthened and a few moved over from 315 operation to 317. December will see a recast of the timetable and hopefully should support some 12 car running.
However I think the plan for the 9x 317/7 is for them to move over to the GE side and be used on things like the 17.02 Norwich relief service, the Stowmarket morning starters and Harwich Boat Trains.
That should free up 321 and 360 for even more strengthening on the GE side.
The Romford - Upminster shuttle is now diagrammed to be a 317/5 as standard
tbtc
Veteran Member
Thanks for this, very informative
Cheers for that. The 1558 from Liverpool Street- as that goes forward to Waterbeach and Ely, will it remain 4 car?
Tottenham Flyer
Member
Yeah. Continues to Ely, ECS back to Cambridge and does the 1822 to Ely and ECS back to Cambridge again.
Tottenham Flyer
Member
379's today on Stansted Express services:
379011 & 012
379007 & 014
379010 & 018
379005 & 013
379016 & 025
4 sets of 317's too:
317710 & 664
317719 & 732
317729 (4 car only at the moment)
317708 & 714
379011 & 012
379007 & 014
379010 & 018
379005 & 013
379016 & 025
4 sets of 317's too:
317710 & 664
317719 & 732
317729 (4 car only at the moment)
317708 & 714
Tottenham Flyer
Member
379026 & 027 out today on Stansted Express services- first workings are 1B14 0625 London- Stansted, and 1B15 0730 Stansted- London.
Kingfisher200262
Member
This is probably a silly question, but if there are nine diagrams and the assumption is that at some stage, 379s will be formed into 12-car trains, how (when there are only 30 x 4-car units) will there ever be enough 379s to operate Stansteds and Cambridge services?
I know that they will probably only run 12-cars in the peaks, but do the "learned ones" here, think that 30 units is enough and if not, is there a provision in the contract with Bombardier for a follow-on order?
Tottenham Flyer
Member
I believe the 12 cars will be on Cambridge services only, and at that there will only be a couple of them as there won't be enough units. 18 units are required for the Stansted Express, which leaves 12, there's a couple left for maintenance, so I would imagine there may only be 1 or 2 12 car sets and the others will run in 8 car formation.
Tottenham Flyer
Member
The plan is (from what I've found):
12 car services only to/from Cambridge using class 379's on the following peak services:
0648 from Cambridge
0718 from Cambridge (4 coaches from Kings Lynn- 8 coaches added at Cambridge)
0748 from Cambridge
1707 to Kings Lynn
1737 to Cambridge
1807 to Kings Lynn
The 317's are not planned to be used in 12 car formation on the West Anglia route.
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