HS2 trains - Interior design

[Nottingham59]

I see that Alstom have released mock-ups of the HS2 train interiors.

‘Best-in-class’ seats and no bog-standard loos: first look at HS2 train interiors

Carriages for controversial high-speed line focus on passenger comfort, innovations and headroom, mock-ups reveal

www.theguardian.com

The trains won’t be built until 2026 – but in a dedicated room in the manufacturer Alstom’s factory in Derby, full-size wooden mock-ups of the train interiors to the contracted specifications have been constructed for diverse user groups to test.

 

[Transilien]

I hope the lights aren’t as bright in the production trains! It reminds of the IET’s interior with it’s blindingly light LED’s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Disappointed they've gone with the FISA LEAN seat. It's an awful design that wastes space, leads to poor legroom and isn't particularly comfortable. Really should do a lot better for a premium high speed train.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Disappointed they've gone with the FISA LEAN seat. It's an awful design that wastes space, leads to poor legroom and isn't particularly comfortable. Really should do a lot better for a premium high speed train.

Which current trains use them?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Mock-ups don't always reflect the actual turn out on train interiors, once the bean-counters have got involved.
I note they have Avanti people involved, as part of the original West Coast Partnership franchise scope.
That might well change when GBR takes over.

 

[DanNCL]

They say they want the most comfortable train and then they pick an existing seat that, whilst not an ironing board, isn’t great…

Interesting that even the standard class seats are to recline though.

Edit: just seen that whilst it’s the FISA LEAN in the mock-up, that’s not what’ll be in the final interior and that a new seat is being developed. The Yahoo article also has an image of what appears to be a wooden mock-up of a new seat, one that looks considerably nicer than the FISA LEAN. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/hs2-unvei...VGVk9qyHbvTla3InCJjNrHBFSJ57lS4U4C5uDZUbqjrSf

Which current trains use them?

196s, 745s and 755s

 

[RUK]

I note they have Avanti people involved, as part of the original West Coast Partnership franchise scope.

People seem to like the refurbished Pendolino’s seats, from what I’ve read, so hopefully that will bode well.

 

[gordonthemoron]

People seem to like the refurbished Pendolino’s seats, from what I’ve read, so hopefully that will bode well.

Really? I prefer the original seats

 

[stuu]

It's very dull. It would be good if they could do something similar to the ICE Neos which have a lot of wood and very comfortable seats

 

[800001]

It's very dull. It would be good if they could do something similar to the ICE Neos which have a lot of wood and very comfortable seats

View attachment 167586

I highly doubt that is the final colour scheme, if it’s just a mock up it won’t have the colours that the operator has/will chosen?

 

[Rick1984]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/976/cpsprodpb/864b/live/811d5aa0-8e05-11ef-acbd-1d9352407901.jpg.webp

This image from BBC shows seat back with a central spine and a niche either side.

Regarding the toilets. It would be good if the sink fatalities weren't hidden behind a panel making you have to guess where to put hand's

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

196s, 745s and 755s

The 755 seats are pretty good

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which current trains use them?

WMT 196s and Greater Anglia FLIRTs. And they're (stupidly, given how tight the legroom is) being fitted to Voyagers. They were also slated for Northern 195s but plans were changed, presumably because the already tight airline seating would have been uselessly tight.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2024 ==

The 755 seats are pretty good

To sit on they are sort of OK. But the thick seat back means poorer legroom than necessary.

 

[Akela]

Can’t really say that screams “first class” to me - very spartan design.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Edit: just seen that whilst it’s the FISA LEAN in the mock-up, that’s not what’ll be in the final interior and that a new seat is being developed. The Yahoo article also has an image of what appears to be a wooden mock-up of a new seat, one that looks considerably nicer than the FISA LEAN. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/hs2-unvei...VGVk9qyHbvTla3InCJjNrHBFSJ57lS4U4C5uDZUbqjrSf

That looks considerably better, respecting that a central niche is not a good design because tall people are usually men, and the male anatomy doesn't lend itself to sitting with knees pressed together.

 

[Transilien]

I get the feeling that the HS2 trains will just be faster IETs really considering they are basically Hitachi trains built in a joint venture with Bombardier (now Alstom).

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

To sit on they are sort of OK. But the thick seat back means poorer legroom than necessary.

Yeah I can agree with that. I'm only 5ft 8 as I'm still a kid, but the legroom is getting kinda small now

 

[RUK]

I get the feeling that the HS2 trains will just be faster IETs really considering they are basically Hitachi trains built in a joint venture with Bombardier (now Alstom).

They’re said to be based more on the Italian Frecciarossa (Red Arrow) / ETR 1000 / Zefiro 300, built by AnsaldoBreda (now Hitachi Rail Italy) and Bombardier (now Alstom): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zefiro_(train)

An evolution of the Zefiro 300 platform was also offered by a joint venture between Bombardier (later Alstom) and Hitachi Rail for the HS2 rolling stocktender for its first phase, for which it was awarded the contract for 54 trainsets.[26]

 

[Richard Scott]

They’re said to be based more on the Italian Frecciarossa (Red Arrow) / ETR 1000 / Zefiro 300, built by AnsaldoBreda (now Hitachi Rail Italy) and Bombardier (now Alstom): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zefiro_(train)

Which, to be fair, isn't a bad train but still think ICE interiors are hard to beat.

 

[Goldfish62]

Which, to be fair, isn't a bad train but still think ICE interiors are hard to beat.

Have you been on the ICE3 Neo with the new interior look that was introduced part-way through production? They really are lovely.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2024 ==

196s, 745s and 755s

Refurbished 458/4s use the Fisa LEAN2 which is a considerable upgrade from the original and very comfy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Refurbished 458/4s use the Fisa LEAN2 which is a considerable upgrade from the original and very comfy.

Still bad legroom due to the badly designed thick back. The niches need to be at the sides.

 

[signed]

Why do they need to make a whole new seat? Surely there are perfectly good seats in Alstom's line-up that could be reused for cheaper than making a whole new seat design.

The new TGV Euroduplex Océane refurb could have been used, the Omnéo Premium config on Bombardier Regio 2N...

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.laviedurail.com%2Frp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F3%2F2022%2F02%2Fespace-de-1re-classe-avec-cloisons-et-bagagerie-de-l-Omneo-n-609-XL-de-Normandie.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4bef9e14734c070b66acc24218f040d7926bfb78527aab9877e5b020684ef363&ipo=images

The above is the Omnéo Premium seating layout in 1st, used on most TER services in Normandy.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fp9.storage.canalblog.com%2F91%2F10%2F1336636%2F127959612_o.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=3cbbb2789ff1f465fa5862bfe3a7d127095de121ad929c51ef901f766c71b3c2&ipo=images

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.lanouvellerepublique.fr%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Ft_1020w%2Ff_auto%2F58c2d04e469a456f618b49f8.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=9194fcd1d4d621d3c42f4d0dff339de36832fa30f82addf54df1bcdbd42d03d8&ipo=images

Second and first class on the newest TGVs

 

[trebor79]

Still bad legroom due to the badly designed thick back. The niches need to be at the sides.

I quite like the Fisa Lean seats, at least they are alright for Norwich to London 2 hours. I find leg room issues are caused by the enormous support bar on the window seats rather than the seat back.

 

[Nottingham59]

Why do they need to make a whole new seat?

It's HS2. Why does every viaduct on the route have a different design, construction methodology and maintenance regime?

 

[Goldfish62]

I quite like the Fisa Lean seats, at least they are alright for Norwich to London 2 hours. I find leg room issues are caused by the enormous support bar on the window seats rather than the seat back.

The ones in the 458/4s lean back so you're not sat bolt upright (a posture surely only loved by the DfT) and have softer cushions.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2024 ==

It's HS2. Why does every viaduct on the route have a different design, construction methodology and maintenance regime?

Judging by the comfort (lack of) of off-the-shelf designs over the past decade or so I think it has merit. Get the design right and it can be adopted as the standard long-distance seat design and rolled out for Class 80x refurbishment.

 

[AJDesiro]

Still bad legroom due to the badly designed thick back. The niches need to be at the sides.

The legroom on the 458/4s is incredible, to the point where the position of the niches doesn't matter, the legroom is more than you get at the carriage ends on a 350/1.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The legroom on the 458/4s is incredible, to the point where the position of the niches doesn't matter, the legroom is more than you get at the carriage ends on a 350/1.

It's less than it would be with a better designed seat. It might be that they've been generous with spacing, but then you have the opposite issue - too few seats. A well designed seat back maximises both legroom and capacity, as evidenced by the extra 2" or so you get on the new Pendolino seats compared to the old ones with the high density layout completely unchanged.

 

[Richard Scott]

Have you been on the ICE3 Neo with the new interior look that was introduced part-way through production? They really are lovely.

I've been on one but was a shortish journey so didn't really take much notice. Will have to look out for one.
Always found ICE interiors to be about as good as it gets.

 

[Skie]

Regarding the toilets. It would be good if the sink fatalities weren't hidden behind a panel making you have to guess where to put hand's

I second this. Nothing worse than playing a guessing game, or having sensors so bad you need to scrabble round with wet hands touching mysterious nozzles until you find the Goldilocks zone.

Or receiving a giant dollop of goopy soap which you can’t possibly get off your hands with the thimble of water allotted to you. Which the anemic dryer can’t even evaporate.

The 390s are actually good in this regard, Virgin got the sink setup spot on towards the end of their run.

 

[greyman42]

Still bad legroom due to the badly designed thick back. The niches need to be at the sides.

It depends what you call bad legroom and what you are expecting. If you are expecting to stretch out like you might at home then you are probably going to be disappointed.