It's Not Just Trains-Now Stations Are Too Congested

[HST Power]

According to a report in the RAIL Magazine, NR now believe that it's not just trains that are overly congested, it's stations too.

One of the major stations that cropped up in this report was Manchester Victoria. A vast number of other stations are also in need of maintenance, with concerns over safety, security and access for the disabled.

In total, 118 stations have been placed on the hit list (with 2,520 on the UK network). Current projects at Kings Cross and Birmingham New Street will also address the issue.

There are fears that if the problems are not tackled, rail travel will become increasingly unpopular.

A brief lowdown of the report:

STATION DEMANDS

Work needed by 2019
Basingstoke, Bristol Parkway, Liverpool Central, Lime Street, Preston, Clapham Junction, Earlsfield, Surbiton, Wimbledon, London Charing Cross, London Fenchurch Street, London Victoria.

Better plans needed
Bristol Temple Meads, Glasgow Queen Street, Leeds, Manchester Piccadily, Manchester Victoria, Barking, London Euston, Finsbury Park, Tottenham Hale.

Work needed by 2031
Birmingham Moor Street, Bradford Foster Square, Bradford Interchange, Coventry, Glasgow Central, Halifax, Huddersfield, Lichfield City, Lincoln, Liverpool James Street, Nuneaton, Princess Risborough, Salford Central, Solihull, Tamworth, Walsall, Woking, Balham, London Marleybone.

Inadequate Plans
Birmingham Snow Hill, Peterborough, Bromley South, Herne Hill, Lewisham, Orpington, London St Pancras, Seven Sisters, Waterloo East, Watford Junction.

Interesting to see that Birmingham cropped up quite a lot.

Thoughts on the report?

 

[Greenback]

This title seems very familiar - has it been used before?

 

[OxtedL]

This will be based on the Network Rail Stations RUS...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...t=\RUS Documents\Route Utilisation Strategies

 

[OxtedL]

It's a no-brainer. Stations are going to get congested with the increase in rail usage. Some kind of strategy is required. Network Rail have made some kind of strategy. End of. Simples.

 

[wintonian]

According to a report in the RAIL Magazine, NR now believe that it's not just trains that are overly congested, it's stations too.

One of the major stations that cropped up in this report was Manchester Victoria. A vast number of other stations are also in need of maintenance, with concerns over safety, security and access for the disabled.

In total, 118 stations have been placed on the hit list (with 2,520 on the UK network). Current projects at Kings Cross and Birmingham New Street will also address the issue.

There are fears that if the problems are not tackled, rail travel will become increasingly unpopular.

A brief lowdown of the report:

STATION DEMANDS

Work needed by 2019
Basingstoke, Bristol Parkway, Liverpool Central, Lime Street, Preston, Clapham Junction, Earlsfield, Surbiton, Wimbledon, London Charing Cross, London Fenchurch Street, London Victoria.

Better plans needed
Bristol Temple Meads, Glasgow Queen Street, Leeds, Manchester Piccadily, Manchester Victoria, Barking, London Euston, Finsbury Park, Tottenham Hale.

Work needed by 2031
Birmingham Moor Street, Bradford Foster Square, Bradford Interchange, Coventry, Glasgow Central, Halifax, Huddersfield, Lichfield City, Lincoln, Liverpool James Street, Nuneaton, Princess Risborough, Salford Central, Solihull, Tamworth, Walsall, Woking, Balham, London Marleybone.

Inadequate Plans
Birmingham Snow Hill, Peterborough, Bromley South, Herne Hill, Lewisham, Orpington, London St Pancras, Seven Sisters, Waterloo East, Watford Junction.

Interesting to see that Birmingham cropped up quite a lot.

Thoughts on the report?

So where are Waterloo and Clapham Junction which if I remember featured quite heavily/ high up the list in the Network Rail report?

Basingstoke is having a sort of extension built at the front later this year (I think).

 

[MidnightFlyer]

To be honest I think anyone could have told you that more overcrowded trains will evetually mean more overcrowded stations. I just think expand concourses, clear away furnature (empty buildings etc), get more compact benches etc on stations, and scale down stupidly large retail units.

 

[Max]

I've deleted a few posts here, no need for the bickering thankyou.

 

[OxtedL]

Perhaps I should very quickly explain to anyone reading this late that we concluded the thread title has been quoted from RAIL itself, there was a little scuffle, and two of my posts have consequently ended up right next to each other...

Matt is spot on, and I think that is pretty much what the strategy is.

 

[williamn]

Interesting that the newly completed St Pancras has 'inadequate plans'.

I suspect that the Thameslink station is going to get very overcrowded once the service frequency increases. Already if two trains arrive at the station at once long queues can build up at the gates and escalators.

The station as a whole remains badly signed - everything is signed to different train operators which means little to most customers. Additionally the departures board is split into operators, again with nothing to tell you this, its probably baffling to the average person who doesn't know about different operators.

 

[SS4]

It goes without saying really, we've already started to see the effects of station overcrowding on the tube in London, it wouldn't hurt NR to ask LU for some pointers about station management.

Snow Hill is a poor station because it is bottlenecked around the escalators although when the Metro moves to it's own platform it will gain another exit (which will need to be barriered)

The problems in central Birmingham comes down largely to space since only Moor Street is really at street level and even that lies on a hill (the main entrance is ok but the secondary and tertiary entrances have stairs). If Moor Street is expanded though some local stoppers could terminate there which would ease pressure between Moor St and Snow Hill, Moor Street in particular depends on what Chiltern plan to do with their services to London.

For New Street I have my reservations about the Gateway Plus project (mainly the eyesore of a John Lewis above it) since it doesn't appear to be doing much for capacity purposes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To be honest I think anyone could have told you that more overcrowded trains will evetually mean more overcrowded stations. I just think expand concourses, clear away furnature (empty buildings etc), get more compact benches etc on stations, and scale down stupidly large retail units.

I can see that happening too although I would argue that a serious method of moving people around will be more effective to ease congestion, especially in the short term, if you set one set of doors for entry and one for exit (better yet certain entrances to be exit/enter only) and segregate traffic entering and exiting

 

[swt_passenger]

So where are Waterloo and Clapham Junction which if I remember featured quite heavily/ high up the list in the Network Rail report?

That list just seems to be Rail magazine's summary - which does list Clapham Junction in the first group - 'by 2019'.

But Waterloo is discussed at length in the NR source document (as linked to earlier)...

 

[Squaddie]

One solution would be to remove ticket barriers from stations (and I realise that this is unthinkable because NR has just spent and is still spending a huge amount of money installing them). The queue to get out of some stations - Cardiff Central comes to mind - can be horrendous at peak time because of the gates.

If there were sufficient staff on trains to inspect tickets (and if the existing staff made a bit of an effort to do so instead of sitting in first class chatting, as they do on FGW) then barriers would not be necessary.

 

[Deerfold]

According to a report in the RAIL Magazine, NR now believe that it's not just trains that are overly congested, it's stations too.

...

In total, 118 stations have been placed on the hit list (with 2,520 on the UK network). Current projects at Kings Cross and Birmingham New Street will also address the issue.

I do hope so, as the current project at Kings X has so far resulted in far worse overcrowding since the barriers went in.

 

[bAzTNM]

Bellgrove Station in Glasgow is just about impossible to get to if somebody is in a wheelchair. No wheelchair access, just very big stairs to the platform. You'd think they'd want to upgrade that.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The same can be said for about 50 other stations in addition to Bellgraove though: Dumpton Park, Mill Hill (Lancs), Pontypool & New Inn...

 

[Class172]

I'm suprised Worcester Forgate St doesn't feature. At peak time there is little room to move through - people find it difficult to get off trains (even when a gap is lest at the doors), yet alone on! It's nigh on impossible for a wheelchair to move freely

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Trouble is is that with Clapham Jn, peterborough, preston etc you can make room. try doing that at Foregate St!

 

[bAzTNM]

I'm suprised Worcester Forgate St doesn't feature

Not a big name station, but I'm a bit surprised Airdrie isn't there. Everytime I am there, the crowds are generally full on the platform.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Manchester Victoria is mentioned in the early stages of this thread. There were proposals that this station share a large capital sum with other stations, which was later rescinded. There is now some tentative discussion concerning the use of the station ofices for commercial useage.

The Northern Hub document talks in general terms of an improvement to services, but not in any great depth, even though there is mention of the station as being a major hub of the Ordsall Chord project. The only project with capital funding is the replacement of the roof over the old Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway terminal platforms.

Would it not have been possible to have stated exactly what new infrastructure rail-related works are envisaged.

 

[HST Power]

Manchester Victoria is mentioned in the early stages of this thread. There were proposals that this station share a large capital sum with other stations, which was later rescinded. There is now some tentative discussion concerning the use of the station ofices for commercial useage.

Plans were recently announced to redo the roof at Manchester Victoria. Its passenger numbers are expected to double by 2019. The work should be done by 2014.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Plans were recently announced to redo the roof at Manchester Victoria. Its passenger numbers are expected to double by 2019. The work should be done by 2014.

If you were to read my posting, the roof had been referred to as having capital funding already agreed. My final point asked (besides the matter of the roof already clarified) what were the new rail-related infrastructure works referred to in the document. I was not asking about projected passenger numbers,

I thought that my posting had been worded sufficiantly well enough.

 

[HST Power]

If you were to read my posting, the roof had been referred to as having capital funding already agreed.

I thought that my posting had been worded sufficiantly well.

Apologies. Didn't see it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Apologies. Didn't see it.

Apology accepted. Perhaps a case of "Monday-morning" syndrome.:cry:

 

[HST Power]

Apology accepted. Perhaps a case of "Monday-morning" syndrome.:cry:

Certainly!

Anyway, before this goes off topic and I have another 500 Private Messages titled 'Post Deleted', one of the stations that I felt suprised had been listed was St Pancras. Even though work has been completed on the station NR still feel that it's 'inadequate.' I haven't been there for some time but I'd be interested to see some other opinions. In my view, St Pancras is quite good.

 

[Failed Unit]

The crowding takes place in 2 forms, at Kings Cross the barriers have made it much worse, on Thursday evening the 1700 was announced about 10 minutes before departure and they just openned all the barriers up to let passengers board quickly, the 1703 was also annonce at about 1650 so the concourse was very overcrowded upto this point.

The other problem is of course much more difficult to solve platform capacity. At place like Darlington delays frequently occur because of this.

I always find it amazing the small platforms on the Glasgow subway cope with peak demands!

 

[junglejames]

One solution would be to remove ticket barriers from stations (and I realise that this is unthinkable because NR has just spent and is still spending a huge amount of money installing them). The queue to get out of some stations - Cardiff Central comes to mind - can be horrendous at peak time because of the gates.

If there were sufficient staff on trains to inspect tickets (and if the existing staff made a bit of an effort to do so instead of sitting in first class chatting, as they do on FGW) then barriers would not be necessary.

But this is too obvious a solution!! So it wont be done!
The only time ive seen annoyingly busy crowds of people at St Pancras, was waiting at the EMT area, waiting for trains to be announced.
This area is too small, and this is mainly because of the barriers. Either the barriers should be taken out, or another set of departure boards put on every platform, so people can escape the crowds and wait on the platform.
St Pancras is good with the different operators having different areas, and all the different eateries and large spaces mean people are dispersed well, but the small waiting areas for EMT, SET and Thameslink needs to be addressed. The easy and cheap solution is to remove the barriers, which for EMT and SET should be no brainers. Neither have a need for barriers. Only Thameslink has a need for barriers.

 

[Drsatan]

I'm surprised neither Southampton Central nor Salisbury stations have been mentioned.

The ticket barriers at Salisbury station either need to be relocated or removed since the station's small concourse becomes very overcrowded due to lots of people trying to pass through the barriers in either direction. An easy way of increasing capacity at the station would be to reopen Platform 1 to passengers, although this would require track circuits to be installed on the running line.

Southampton Central suffers from similar congestion problems, especially at the Platform 4 entrance. The footbridge is also rather narrow because there is partition dividing it in half. Behind the partition are the lift doors. Demolishing this partition would widen the footbridge making it less congested.

Platform 5 at Southampton Central should also be reopened to passenger trains, although this would necessitate installing a proper signal rather than a shunting signal at the platform end. I'd guess that Southampton to Westbury and Great Malvern services would use this platform.

 

[northwichcat]

Stations being classed as overcrowded isn't something new. Liverpool Central station was reported as being too crowded a few years ago.

 

[swt_passenger]

The ticket barriers at Salisbury station either need to be relocated or removed since the station's small concourse becomes very overcrowded due to lots of people trying to pass through the barriers in either direction. An easy way of increasing capacity at the station would be to reopen Platform 1 to passengers, although this would require track circuits to be installed on the running line.

Southampton Central suffers from similar congestion problems, especially at the Platform 4 entrance. The footbridge is also rather narrow because there is partition dividing it in half. Behind the partition are the lift doors. Demolishing this partition would widen the footbridge making it less congested.

Platform 5 at Southampton Central should also be reopened to passenger trains, although this would necessitate installing a proper signal rather than a shunting signal at the platform end. I'd guess that Southampton to Westbury and Great Malvern services would use this platform.

Salisbury Platform 1 reopening for passenger use was in the route plans for the last few years, last April it was at Grip stage 3, but this April's version (which is an addendum to April 2010 version for some reason) reports it as undated and 'Project Closed' - which sounds like it is no longer happening to me.

Southampton P4 entrance is about to be fully rebuilt - as this has been in planning for a while now it might explain why it isn't mentioned.

I think you might be right about the footbridge - of course the dividing wall might be structural, so it could also need a new roof. I'd be tempted to add extra stairs to the other side of the footbridge as well - especially on the island platform. This wouldn't be too difficult if a floor was built surrounding the lift shaft - the sort of thing they've done at Clapham Jn to get the new lifts in.

Similarly to Salisbury, bringing Southampton P5 into passenger use has been appearing in NR's plans for quite a while - it's surprising it wasn't included in the recent signalling renewals, which you might have thought was the obvious time to do it? However it is only listed as a NR Discretionary Fund candidate scheme for 2009-14 - it has no Grip stage associated with it yet.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documents/About us/12394_Route C - Wessex 2011 Update.pdf

 

[GNERman]

I've heard of this with Leeds before.

Whilst Leeds 1st gave huge improvements, it has been quoted many times that the Station is yet again full. Whilst this is unsuprising, one suggestion has been put in place.

The main idea is to build a 7th through Platform, knocking through Platforms 13 and 14 (the latter little used) to provide more capacity. Having been on the station many times, it looks as though this has been planned, with both aligned and ample Platform space between Platform 12 and 15.