Tube driver filming himself whilst driving

[whoosh]

There's a similarity between the filming he's doing, and having a route learner or trainee doing front end turns. Operational things are being pointed out.
There's a difference though, in that a route learner or trainee will ask questions, or that conversation can drift into non-operational topics.

Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, this is less risky than someone having a cab pass and having a cab ride.

 

[Tube driver]

Whilst I can’t see why he‘d do this as the canteen ribbing must be off the scale I can’t really see the difference between this and having a member of P-way in my cab with a camera stuck to the window of the ‘m’ door filming the track which happens quite often.

 

[43066]

A lot of people replying here seem to not wish to acknowledge the fact that completing any secondary task increases risk. This is not some fringe view - it’s absolutely well studied and well known stuff across all safety critical industries. Why do you think that pilots aren’t allowed to have a natter during critical phases of flight? If it didn’t matter, there wouldn’t be any such rule about it.

Just because it feels relatable, like driving your car and talking to a passenger (which by the way also increases risk, whether you feel like it does for you personally or not), the fact is that it seems absolutely bizarre to me that *any* increased risk for no operational benefit should be allowed.

And this isn’t a negligible increase in risk either. There is significant evidence within the rail industry that conversation makes one less focused on the task at hand. I can’t give you the data on it, but I know it to be true from internal briefings, incident reports and also my own intuition when driving myself. I think any driver can recognise that it is easier to lose focus when talking or thinking about something else.

Usually, a professional driver will pull this back and nothing will come of it. Until they don’t, which often is not something within their control. I don’t see how this extra risk can be tolerable at all when the risk is both well known and also completely unnecessary.

So by your logic you’d ban any staff from travelling in cabs, other than instructors and managers and, on those rare occasions they were in the cab, you’d also ban them from having any kind of discussions with drivers beyond strict operational stuff?

I think a sense of proportion is needed. Why not simply accept that his employer are on board with these arrangements, and leave it at that?

 

[InkyScrolls]

So by your logic you’d ban any staff from travelling in cabs, other than instructors and managers and, on those rare occasions they were in the cab, you’d also ban them from having any kind of discussions with drivers beyond strict operational stuff?

I think a sense of proportion is needed. Why not simply accept that his employer are on board with these arrangements, and leave it at that?

Well at some companies that's exactly how it is. Strictly necessary persons, and strictly relevant conversation only.

 

[43066]

Well at some companies that's exactly how it is. Strictly necessary persons, and strictly relevant conversation only.

It would be interesting to know whether that actually translates to reduced incident statistics. Personally to me it seems a little knee jerk and OTT - a little like Cross Country requiring drivers to bring trains to a stand before using the GSMR, with the result that signallers are much less inclined to contact them on the move, which creates other risks (source: an experienced grade 9 signaller).

 

[Flange Squeal]

Those who were worried about this can sleep easy at night now. The latest video on this user’s channel announces that there will be no more Piccadilly Line videos. I’ve not had the chance to watch the full 43 minutes, but in the first few minutes they say “for the moment there will be no more, probably never”. The exact reasons are not discussed.

3 Nov 2024
Hello and welcome to a new video.

As always a huge thank you to all mt channel members for their ongoing support.

I have some news to talk about with you all.
So rather than chat from my sofa I take you for a ride in the car as I go to work.
I hope you enjoy listening to me chat rubbish as usual in this video.

...bad news um all I want to say is I can't say too much about it um well
2:53
certainly not at the moment anyway uh so I appreciate no questions uh you please don't ask me any questions cuz I'm not
2:59
I'm not going to be able to answer them so as of now at the moment there will be
3:06
no more padelli live videos um which is a shame cuz I've got
3:13
at least one edited and ready to go but um so for the moment there'll be no more
3:19
probably never so of course that leaves us with a
3:25
little bit of a dilemma what do we do with the channel
3:30
um I have videos that I filmed on my last few travels that I've not edited
3:36
yet IE planes and train videos but obviously not uh sort of driver point of
3:42
view videos but I know they're not quite as
3:48
popular as my train videos now I've got roughly one video I can put a video out
3:54
roughly once a week for the rest of 2024 we now at the time I'm we recording this first of November um assuming all the
4:01
footage is good and that my next trip still goes ahead uh that
4:07
is so there's a couple of things you can do to help me and it's it's not about
4:13
money so I appreciate some of you are only like the train videos and hopefully we you know I can
4:21
get probably not this year doing some train videos but different
4:27
sorts so what I need for you viewers as help is watch my videos even if it's not
4:34
particularly a video that you are interested in if you follow me I'd appreciate if you just watch it like it
4:40
leave a comment because the algorithm on YouTube is a bit all over the place I
4:45
can't say I really understand it but basically with my videos obviously my train videos because they get lots of
4:51
views lots of likes lots of comments um they appear higher in the search uh where my other videos although they do
4:57
more than they used to as as I build the channel up um they're harder to find ....

 

[_toommm_]

Those who were worried about this can sleep easy at night now. The latest video on this user’s channel announces that there will be no more Piccadilly Line videos. I’ve not had the chance to watch the full 43 minutes, but in the first few minutes they say “for the moment there will be no more, probably never”. The exact reasons are not discussed.

I was just about to post this - whilst I've not yet watched the video, I could tell straight away it would be about this.

It's a massive shame as the videos were incredibly enjoyable. The risk of him having an incident, I just can't see. I'm sure drivers already talk to themselves whilst they're in the cab, so what's the harm with him setting up a camera and recording those thoughts?

 

[Trainguy34]

That's a shame, just watching the video now. At least he's got other content to cover the rest of the year hopefully, I'm just hoping he isn't made to take down his current Piccadilly line videos, I'm still catching up on them as someone who only found this gem a few weeks ago.

 

[danielnez1]

I am not surprised it has happened. While his videos are enjoyable, recording such things "while on the job" does in my opinion raise issues over publicly providing footage of operational incidents, personal opinions, other people in the cab (possibly without informed consent to have their audio/video footage included in the published videos, and the additional complexity of monetisation of such videos.

These sorts of videos are very beneficial to enthusiasts and the general public in demystifying and explaining what happens from a driver's POV and why, but is probably best done as a proper TfL endeavour, a bit like what LNER have dabbled with.

 

[TheTallOne]

I've been enjoying these videos too, it's a shame it's been stopped.

One thing I noticed in the comments was someone saying they're going to contact TFL to complain, but Dale asked them not to - I guess in case it makes it worse.

I can't copy and paste from the YouTube app, but screenshot below.


Not sure yet if the existing videos will be removed either.

There's a statement from TFL online apparently, will see if I can find it.

Edit - struggling to find it, but have screenshot what was said on YouTube comments (on the video mentioned above) - BUT obviously can't guarantee it's accuracy.

 

[507 001]

I have filmed whilst driving in the past. Some of you may have even watched said videos through a certain YouTube channel.

I found having to stay completely quiet was more of a distraction than if I’d been able to speak and make noise.

 

[Dstock7080]

There's a statement from TFL online apparently, will see if I can find it.

Edit - struggling to find it, but have screenshot what was said on YouTube comments (on the video mentioned above) - BUT obviously can't guarantee it's accuracy.

View attachment 168429

I doubt ‘labor’ would be used in a TfL statement.

 

[TheTallOne]

I doubt ‘labor’ would be used in a TfL statement.

I think, but not sure, that the first paragraph might be the alleged statement and the second paragraph the person's own opinion, not clear though.

 

[Kay_M]

Those who were worried about this can sleep easy at night now. The latest video on this user’s channel announces that there will be no more Piccadilly Line videos. I’ve not had the chance to watch the full 43 minutes, but in the first few minutes they say “for the moment there will be no more, probably never”. The exact reasons are not discussed.

I know some are doing backflips on this now.

 

[contrex]

I am sorry to see a source of interesting videos stopped. I hope it was not entirely due to 'armchair operators' on here.

 

[announcements]

I was just about to post this - whilst I've not yet watched the video, I could tell straight away it would be about this.

Yes I was going to post this early evening yesterday but this discussion thread was locked!

 

[Edsmith]

Great shame, I've watched most of his videos and I found them very interesting. And surely it's no more dangerous than him driving his car doing the same thing, all quite legally?

 

[contrex]

Great shame, I've watched most of his videos and I found them very interesting. And surely it's no more dangerous than him driving his car doing the same thing, all quite legally?

I am very fond of the video of the 2005 Southern record run from London Bridge to Brighton in which the driver, Peter Mantel, calls off the braking points and speeds to someone standing just behind him with a clipboard. From time to tine they discuss other things, such as where Peter goes shooting. All the driving seems to be of the utmost high standard, as does that of the LU driver who is the subject of this thread.

 

[Mawkie]

As I understand it, local management were happy for Dale to make the videos, but a fellow driver was unhappy about the situation and eventually made an FOI. which then drew the attention of the "higher-ups" who were not so happy. I believe that LU have requested he remove all previous videos.

I wonder if the issue is not so much Dale's content per se, but once permission is given for one person then you have to give permission for all, and not everyone is as responsible as Dale in their content.

(Edited to fix link)

 

[J-2739]

As I understand it, local management were happy for Dale to make the videos, but a fellow driver was unhappy about the situation and eventually made an FOI, which then drew the attention of the "higher-ups" who were not so happy. I believe that LU have requested he remove all previous videos.

I wonder if the issue is not so much Dale's content per se, but once permission is given for one person then you have to give permission for all, and not everyone is as responsible as Dale in their content.

What a snitch.

 

[Mawkie]

What a snitch.

Or maybe had different beliefs and concerns.

 

[Vespa]

I suspect Tfl managers must have been reading comments on here and decided to put a stop to it.

Personally I hate threads going down forum rabbit holes into endless hyperboles and it spoils the fun, I found the video educational and it would help potential tube driver consider making an application to become one once they see what the job entails.

 

[Intermodal]

What a snitch.

If someone posts a sign on a busy street saying: “My name is <someone> and I committed <some crime>”, and then someone notices it and tells the police about it, are they a “snitch”?

I don’t want to see Dale get into any bother (and my view would be that if he had permission to film that it would be wrong if he did), but he is the one who posted the videos and it was absolutely inevitable that someone high up at TfL would see them at some point, no matter how that came about.

I suspect Tfl managers must have been reading comments on here and decided to put a stop to it.

I suspect that TfL managers do not take advice from Rail Forums posters, and if they’ve put a stop to it then this will be because they see a problem with it, whether that be safety, reputation, or a combination of both.

 

[66701GBRF]

If someone posts a sign on a busy street saying: “My name is <someone> and I committed <some crime>”, and then someone notices it and tells the police about it, are they a “snitch”?

One is potentially criminal, one is not. Therefore apples and oranges.

 

[bluegoblin7]

The above FOI link is broken, so for reference: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transp.../foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-2144-2425

I would also say that I think many are understating the challenges associated with this situation, particularly those around non-consenting parties having their voices uploaded to the Internet. In my role I make lots of broadcasts and radio messages to train drivers - I'd be extremely annoyed if they were making their way into the public domain without any prior knowledge. They are in the moment operational comms for a reason.

As some will be aware, I have been involved, and no doubt will be again, in filming in my role and the checks and balances put in place are significant. I have no personal view on this situation (and I don't watch YouTube so don't really have any idea what's been posted or not beyond what's been said here) but knowing the hoops I've had to jump through simply to allow others to film me in operational locations I am genuinely amazed that this was ever signed off in the first place.

 

[Intermodal]

One is potentially criminal, one is not. Therefore apples and oranges.

No, you've completely misconstrued my point.

You can't "snitch" on someone who has purposefully put something in the public domain with the intention of as many people as possible seeing it. To me, to "snitch" implies you've told someone something that they didn't want someone else to know. Dale wanted as many people as possible to see his videos - as any YouTuber would.

 

[stuart81]

There is another driver who has also had their authority to film withdrawn so appears to be a complete tube / TFL decision.

The FOI request does have the tone of someone just looking to stir trouble

 

[Intermodal]

The FOI request does have the tone of someone just looking to stir trouble

On the other hand, take a moment to consider that the reply TfL gave indicates that, at some level, someone has authorised tube drivers to film in cabs without ever giving any consideration to whether it might affect the safety of passengers. Let that mull around in your head. I find it quite astounding, honestly.

 

[Western Sunset]

There was a freight driver on WCML container trains who created really interesting YouTube videos, who "disappeared" a few months ago. Though he never filmed whilst the train was moving; just at the start/end of the journey and at extended signal stops.

Maybe there has been an edict from high up to crack down on all such material.

 

[Vespa]

On the other hand, take a moment to consider that the reply TfL gave indicates that, at some level, someone has authorised tube drivers to film in cabs without ever giving any consideration to whether it might affect the safety of passengers. Let that mull around in your head. I find it quite astounding, honestly.

From I can see and I have said before, there is no safety issues as he's focused on the job, in fact it's useful to run a commentary to yourself so you can note danger or signals on the journey.

Very much like the Japanese "Shisa Kanko" pointing and calling out signals and points.

I do it sometimes to talk myself through complicated routes.