Greater Anglia fraud investigation

[sam999]

Hi all, hoping for some advice around an email I received on Thursday:

Greater Anglia's fraud team wrote they have been 'investigating industry data and believe you are potentially not paying full fares... a number of incorrectly purchased tickets showing on (trainline account) that are a breach of our terms and considered fraudulent activity'.

I haven't been caught by a ticket inspector, but the mention of fraud is naturally worrying. They state they 'view this as a serious issue and to contact them with an Outlook to resolve this matter with efficiently'. Is it wishful thinking to read that as their wish to settle this with me by just imposing penalties, since I am keen to do to avoid courts? I am also anxious they may simply view my attempt to do so as a confession/evidence for them to use for a court conviction instead.

Any advice or tips would be really appreciated, incl. for any possible free legal advice since I can ill-afford that. Lastly, they expect a response within a week - does that need to be my full/detailed response, or can I send an acknowledgment to buy me some time to figure things out first?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@sam999. Welcome to the forum. So, just why do you reckon that you've come to Greater Anglia's attention?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We could do with knowing some more information to be able to advise properly. Clearly, Greater Anglia believe there is something not right with you ticket purchasing habits and we could do with knowing what you'be been doing. For example, this could include:

- Doughutting - i.e. buying short distance tickets at either end of your journey to get through the barriers leaving an unticketed gap int he middle
- Applying a railcard discount that you're not entitled to - eg. there is no record of you owning the railcard or you're not entitled to that railcard eg too old, not old enough etc.
- Purchasing off-peak or railcard tickets but travelling at a time when they're not valid
- Refunding a high volume of tickets
- Claiming high levels of delay repay which might not match ticket scan data

There are probably more reasoms that I've not listed.

Greater Anglia will prpbably offer you an out of court settlement if you co-operate with them but we need to know why they think there is something suspicious, how often you've been doing it and for how long.

 

[Starmill]

I think it goes without saying but just for the avoidance of any doubt here, please please please take great care to ensure you have the correct ticket before you board the train from now on.

 

[sam999]

Welcome to the forum!

We could do with knowing some more information to be able to advise properly. Clearly, Greater Anglia believe there is something not right with you ticket purchasing habits and we could do with knowing what you'be been doing. For example, this could include:

- Doughutting - i.e. buying short distance tickets at either end of your journey to get through the barriers leaving an unticketed gap int he middle
- Applying a railcard discount that you're not entitled to - eg. there is no record of you owning the railcard or you're not entitled to that railcard eg too old, not old enough etc.
- Purchasing off-peak or railcard tickets but travelling at a time when they're not valid
- Refunding a high volume of tickets
- Claiming high levels of delay repay which might not match ticket scan data

There are probably more reasoms that I've not listed.

Greater Anglia will prpbably offer you an out of court settlement if you co-operate with them but we need to know why they think there is something suspicious, how often you've been doing it and for how long.

@Hadders Thank you for the response. I believe it has to do with doughnutting, and I am now trying to resolve the matter with them for an out of court settlement. However, I am worried because some journeys involve multiple train operators. Do you know if they would be likely to share that information on to the other operators? Of course I am now being transparent with them, but would ideally want to avoid going through this process again with another operator.

 

[Titfield]

You will only have to deal with Greater Anglia as they are the TOC who is investigating all your journeys / booking activity.

 

[sam999]

You will only have to deal with Greater Anglia as they are the TOC who is investigating all your journeys / booking activity.

And they don't ever inform other TOC's about their investigations, if they find out it involves the other TOC's?

 

[Hadders]

@Hadders Thank you for the response. I believe it has to do with doughnutting, and I am now trying to resolve the matter with them for an out of court settlement. However, I am worried because some journeys involve multiple train operators. Do you know if they would be likely to share that information on to the other operators? Of course I am now being transparent with them, but would ideally want to avoid going through this process again with another operator.

We'd really need to know more details to be able to give a comprehensive answer.

My initial view is that if the journey involves two train companies and you settle with Greater Anglia and that settlement amount is based on fares avoided for the full journey, involving both train operators) then you shouldn't be penalised twice.

If the settlement amount is based on the part of the journey made with Greater Anglia only then the other train company might want to contact you about their part.

 

[John R]

And they don't ever inform other TOC's about their investigations, if they find out it involves the other TOC's?

I think you should work on the assumption that if they suspect you of committing fraudulent travel across the network, they will address it in its entirety.

To take a maybe extreme example, if you commute from Ipswich to Reading, and as well as seeing short fares at the Ipswich end, they see equivalent short fares from Twyford to Reading, they will calculate the amount due from Ipswich to Reading if minded to offer a settlement.

 

[AlterEgo]

And they don't ever inform other TOC's about their investigations, if they find out it involves the other TOC's?

They don't. Greater Anglia will typically address all of the offending in its entirety anyway, regardless of which train company was involved.

 

[Hadders]

They don't. Greater Anglia will typically address all of the offending in its entirety anyway, regardless of which train company was involved.

That's fine but if, at some point in the future, GWR became aware of irregularities then my view is it would be wrong for them to seek a further out of court settlement.

 

[HARRYDOTCOM]

Hi all, hoping for some advice around an email I received on Thursday:

Greater Anglia's fraud team wrote they have been 'investigating industry data and believe you are potentially not paying full fares... a number of incorrectly purchased tickets showing on (trainline account) that are a breach of our terms and considered fraudulent activity'.

I haven't been caught by a ticket inspector, but the mention of fraud is naturally worrying. They state they 'view this as a serious issue and to contact them with an Outlook to resolve this matter with efficiently'. Is it wishful thinking to read that as their wish to settle this with me by just imposing penalties, since I am keen to do to avoid courts? I am also anxious they may simply view my attempt to do so as a confession/evidence for them to use for a court conviction instead.

Any advice or tips would be really appreciated, incl. for any possible free legal advice since I can ill-afford that. Lastly, they expect a response within a week - does that need to be my full/detailed response, or can I send an acknowledgment to buy me some time to figure things out first?

Hello, Have you been able to resolve this issue?

 

[Gloster]

Hello, Have you been able to resolve this issue?

If you have a problem please start your own thread. No two problems are exactly the same and good advice for one can be bad for another.