New Stagecoach bus livery

[TheGrandWazoo]

North Western Road Car Co Ltd is a company name that is/was used by Arriva. I suspect the bus has been transferred in from them but the lettering not updated - which is breaking the law, unless there's a different provision under the GM franchising laws or there's a clear "on hire" sign displayed with the actual operator shown.

North Western Road Car hasn't been a company name since the early days of Arriva; they went through an early sweeping away of such names so it's been Arriva North WestI

There are, at any one time, a range of various “heritage liveries” in use across the country, mostly by the major operators as their various subsidiaries give a nod to their heritage. I don’t think that’s an issue, it’s pleasing to see big corporations willing to acknowledge their own heritage as well as the social history of an area.

Indeed, you do see quite a few of these. I have put this view forward before, but I really don't think heritage liveries are particularly important.

For instance, Stagecoach North East are rolling out a set of heritage liveries to celebrate 30 years since they hoovered up various firms like Busways (though I bet a Darlington livery ain't in the works). Now I guess it does no harm, and it may mean a bit to some longer serving staff and to the enthusiast contingent - let's face it, many managers are also enthusiasts too. However, does it really matter to the people of Biddick Hall to see that an e200 has a South Shields Busways livery - an identity that existed for barely 10 years?

I know it's probably indicative of a wider feeling of actually caring about the operation but in itself, it doesn't count for much with 99.9% of the population

I also think localised liveries are a good thing, especially on busy routes or tourist routes to aid wayfaring but also as publicity.

Individual route branding rarely works, but just corporate branding shows lack of attention to the local area. The middle is probably best, stagecoach lakes connection livery is a great example. Or even if they used local livery in Cambus colours for cambridge.

I do think it's a waste of time and money, as others have said. They are nearly finished rolling out the local livery. And many cities are looking at franchising.

I think the localisation of branding is a bit of a misnomer. It's the actual localisation of management that's the important bit, with local managers being able (within reason) to make decisions that reflect the different dynamics of the local market (e.g. the local customer base, attitude of local authority, etc). That was one of the things that Stagecoach was really good at doing - you had the stripes and then beachball, and a highly standardised fleet to help leverage purchasing power as well as reduce capital tied up in spares etc. However, they gave freedom to local teams to manage and innovate.

Cambus is an interesting one. Remember that when it was originally split from Eastern Counties, Cambus was adopted for all Cambs services but then the Peterborough, Ely and March operations were rebranded as a rather non-geographic Viscount.

However, I do agree that there should be the scope for specific operations to be branded so that they appeal to particular markets, especially leisure services. Stagecoach has done that with the Lake District and you see it with the Peak Sightseer routes. However, a decent corporate livery is fine for most operations; beachball was a practical and well designed livery. However, the 2020 ones were difficult to apply and maintain (as was said at the time by various managers when it was unveiled). Dark blue may seem eminently practical but really, they should have got Ray Stenning in.

 

[Towers]

Attached are two examples of the local livery application of Enviro200 MMCs. (My photos) Stagecoach Yorkshire's 26021 that has had the black panel above the windows painted with the livery and Stagecoach East Midland's 26263 showing the less common application, leaving the panel black.

The East Midlands example I much prefer, as like you said it is better designed to the styling of the vehicle.

It’s an interesting comparison! And I think it’s clear that leaving out the black makes the livery detail much clearer? One of the failures of this particular scheme, in my view, is the deliberate oversizing of the beachball so that it intentionally doesn’t fit fully on the vehicle. Between the styling features like the black stripe, other bodywork features such as the emergency exit and filler caps, and the inevitable bent and replaced panel missing the livery all together, it appears as little more than a few random areas of colour. A very poor application.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2024 ==

In contrast to the new blue attempt by Stagecoach, here’s the same type of vehicle in a different allover blue scheme, Go Ahead’s Bluestar subsidiary down on the south coast. There is, in my opinion, no contest - this is a pleasing and well designed livery, hugely enhanced by the simple application of some vinyl detail.

Bluestar 1679 is parked up on Castle Way. Bluestar recently received 3 more E400MMC's which entered service earlier this week. - HF69 CRU - 8th January 2020

Make/Model - ADL Enviro400MMC

flic.kr

Flickr image shows Bluestar 1679, HF69 CRU, when new on 8th January 2020 wearing its current livery.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s an interesting comparison! And I think it’s clear that leaving out the black makes the livery detail much clearer? One of the failures of this particular scheme, in my view, is the deliberate oversizing of the beachball so that it intentionally doesn’t fit fully on the vehicle

I think that works as a concept but only if the beachball is faded and not full-brightness. The green "eco" livery does that, and the Oxford Bus Company is well known (if you pay attention to liveries) for the large "Ox" onto the wheelarch which is a variant of that concept and looks quite good in my view.

 

[Towers]

I think that works as a concept but only if the beachball is faded and not full-brightness. The green "eco" livery does that, and the Oxford Bus Company is well known (if you pay attention to liveries) for the large "Ox" onto the wheelarch which is a variant of that concept and looks quite good in my view.

True, agree with both of those!

 

[GusB]

Who in Devon cares that their bus is part of a group that also runs in Scotland?

Someone holidaying from Scotland, or vice versa?

I really don't think that anyone who is on holiday in Devon from Scotland is going to give a monkey's about the livery that the buses carry - how is anyone going to know which operator runs services until they get there? Passengers care about timekeeping and they care about internal presentation. Anyone who does notice liveries is also going to note the lack of consistency in the liveries that their local buses have carried over the last few years, so it won't make a any difference when they venture further afield. The only time it's likely to be an issue is when there are competing services on a particular route; if you're visiting an area where there's only one operator it doesn't matter what colour the buses are.

Thinking back to early privatisation days, my local bus could turn up in any one of the old Northern Scottish liveries (there were a few), Stagecoach stripes, or Scottish Citylink; was my journey adversely affected by the paint job that the vehicle carried??

I rather like the dark colour, although I think it needs some other colours to provide some relief. Having said that, I wouldn't have any confidence that such relief would be applied consistently; we've seen how the current "local" livery has been applied in different ways, despite the fact that vehicle bodies are more or less standard these days. It's not like the old days when there were so many different vehicle types that it was difficult to make one livery look good on all of them.

If anything, I'd quite like to see the old orange, red and blue re-introduced; I think they'd contrast quite well with the dark base.

 

[Tim33160]

North Western Road Car hasn't been a company name since the early days of Arriva; they went through an early sweeping away of such names so it's been Arriva North West

The original North Western Road Car Co based at Stockport ended in 1972 when it was split up between SELNEC Cheshire, Trent and Crosville. North Western kept hold of its Manchester depot for its remaining express coach services, but the company was renamed as National Travel (North West) Limited in 1974.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Western_Road_Car_Company_(1986)
In 1986 the government stipulated that the larger business units be split to boost competition. Thus Ribble Motor Services whose operations stretched across North West England from Cumbria to the East Lancashire/West Yorkshire borders and Greater Manchester to West Lancashire/North Merseyside was one such company, and in the summer of 1986 its Merseyside - Aintree and Bootle, West Lancashire - Skelmersdale and Greater Manchester - Wigan depots were transferred to a new company, North Western Road Car Company.

The new North Western was based in Bootle, later moving to Aintree with a new livery of red and blue separated by a grey diamond stripe replacing NBC's poppy red. This company passed through several owners as shown in the wikipedia link above.

In August 1996, North Western's parent British Bus, was acquired by the Cowie Group.[11]
In November 1997, the Cowie Group was renamed Arriva, with North Western rebranded in 1998. North Western Road Car Company became Arriva North West,[1] the Bee Line operation becoming Arriva Manchester[8] and Liverline became Arriva Merseyside.[12]

Companies House lists several NWRCC companies - some of which still exist

• NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY LTD​

  13873091 - Incorporated on 26 January 2022
  24 Hazel Avenue, Runcorn, Cheshire, England, WA7 4BL

• NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY LTD​

  12111204 - Dissolved on 10 August 2021
  110 Denton Road, Audenshaw, Lancashire, England, M34 5BD

• NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY LTD​

  Matching previous names:
  GORILLA BUS COMPANY
  07668133 - Dissolved on 3 June 2014
  39 St Johns Road, Waterloo, Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom, L22 9QB

• NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY LIMITED​

  00439260 - Dissolved on 8 April 2013
  11 Clifton Moor Business Village, James Nicolson Link Clifton Moor, York, YO30 4XG

• ARRIVA NORTH WEST LIMITED​

  Matching previous names:
  NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY · MEXBOROUGH AND SWINTON TRACTION COMPANY LIMITED(THE)
  00523376 - Incorporated on 5 September 1953
  1 Admiral Way Doxford, International Business Park, Sunderland, Tyne & Wear, SR3 3XP

• THE NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY LIMITED​

  09967374 - Dissolved on 27 March 2018
  Ebenezer House, Ryecroft, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, United Kingdom, ST5 2BE

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The original North Western Road Car Co based at Stockport ended in 1972 when it was split up between SELNEC Cheshire, Trent and Crosville. North Western kept hold of its Manchester depot for its remaining express coach services, but the company was renamed as National Travel (North West) Limited in 1974.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Western_Road_Car_Company_(1986)
In 1986 the government stipulated that the larger business units be split to boost competition. Thus Ribble Motor Services whose operations stretched across North West England from Cumbria to the East Lancashire/West Yorkshire borders and Greater Manchester to West Lancashire/North Merseyside was one such company, and in the summer of 1986 its Merseyside - Aintree and Bootle, West Lancashire - Skelmersdale and Greater Manchester - Wigan depots were transferred to a new company, North Western Road Car Company.

The new North Western was based in Bootle, later moving to Aintree with a new livery of red and blue separated by a grey diamond stripe replacing NBC's poppy red. This company passed through several owners as shown in the wikipedia link above.

In August 1996, North Western's parent British Bus, was acquired by the Cowie Group.[11]
In November 1997, the Cowie Group was renamed Arriva, with North Western rebranded in 1998. North Western Road Car Company became Arriva North West,[1] the Bee Line operation becoming Arriva Manchester[8] and Liverline became Arriva Merseyside.[12]

Companies House lists several NWRCC companies - some of which still exist

• NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY LTD​

  13873091 - Incorporated on 26 January 2022
  24 Hazel Avenue, Runcorn, Cheshire, England, WA7 4BL

• NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY LTD​

  12111204 - Dissolved on 10 August 2021
  110 Denton Road, Audenshaw, Lancashire, England, M34 5BD

• NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY LTD​

  Matching previous names:
  GORILLA BUS COMPANY
  07668133 - Dissolved on 3 June 2014
  39 St Johns Road, Waterloo, Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom, L22 9QB

• NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY LIMITED​

  00439260 - Dissolved on 8 April 2013
  11 Clifton Moor Business Village, James Nicolson Link Clifton Moor, York, YO30 4XG

• ARRIVA NORTH WEST LIMITED​

  Matching previous names:
  NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY · MEXBOROUGH AND SWINTON TRACTION COMPANY LIMITED(THE)
  00523376 - Incorporated on 5 September 1953
  1 Admiral Way Doxford, International Business Park, Sunderland, Tyne & Wear, SR3 3XP

• THE NORTH WESTERN ROAD CAR COMPANY LIMITED​

  09967374 - Dissolved on 27 March 2018
  Ebenezer House, Ryecroft, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, United Kingdom, ST5 2BE

They may "exist" but none are trading and, in terms of the 1986 creation, that is now Arriva North West. As you can see, it was a resurrection of the dormant Mexborough and Swinton, much as Northumbria was the old Southern National (1929) company. The one registered at Clifton Moor in York - there's loads of dormant ones with old established names registered there; some connection with Arriva but not certain what the reasoning is.

It's sort of pleasant that Stagecoach have kept some old company names like East Kent - I doubt most folks notice though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's sort of pleasant that Stagecoach have kept some old company names like East Kent - I doubt most folks notice though.

Must admit I was quite sad when the "United Counties Omnibus Co Ltd" legal entity gave way to Cambus Ltd around here. Think they kept the wrong one. But yes most people probably didn't notice.

 

[Ghostbus]

I really don't think that anyone who is on holiday in Devon from Scotland is going to give a monkey's about the livery that the buses carry - how is anyone going to know which operator runs services until they get there? Passengers care about timekeeping and they care about internal presentation. Anyone who does notice liveries is also going to note the lack of consistency in the liveries that their local buses have carried over the last few years, so it won't make a any difference when they venture further afield. The only time it's likely to be an issue is when there are competing services on a particular route; if you're visiting an area where there's only one operator it doesn't matter what colour the buses are.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but my point was precisely that it is the livery that tells someone from Scotland that the buses in Devon are operated by Stagecoach, and therefore they can expect a level of service they are familiar with and are hopefully already enjoying in Scotland.

Hopefully that then helps them make the choice to take the bus over walking or a taxi, or wait for a Stagecoach bus instead of some random local operator they've never used before, if, as might be likely in this scenario, their journey is on a well served tourist trail where competition is rife and every advantage counts. Brand recognition is an advantage.

 

[ClydeCoaster]

I can't link to the image as it's on Facebook, but Plaxton Elite 53719 was out and about in Blairgowrie today in what is a basic version of the 2020 Local Livery. It's application is slightly different in that the logo placement is the same as the distance livery, but it's white with a large coloured logo.

EDIT: It's on Flickr (not my image)

Stagecoach East Scotland 53719 SV11FSF

Stagecoach Blairgowrie

flic.kr

 

[jp4712]

Don't overthink the North Western thing - it was the centenary of the original North Western company in April last year, and given that several very senior executives at Stagecoach started at North Western or garages that had been North Western, it was very pleasant for us (us being the Museum of Transport Greater Manchester) to work with Stagecoach to paint two of their buses in NWRCC commemorative livery. I took the photo below, you can click on it for a bigger version. We also supplied graphics for the GMT and GMS buses.

North Western? Nope - Stagecoach, Museum of Transport Greater Manchester, April 2023 by Paul Williams, on Flickr

 

[johnw]

Must admit I was quite sad when the "United Counties Omnibus Co Ltd" legal entity gave way to Cambus Ltd around here. Think they kept the wrong one. But yes most people probably didn't notice.

I felt the same when the Northamptonshire depots of UCOC merged with Midland Red South to form Stagecoach Midlands as eventually the legal entity “Midland Red (South) Ltd” replaced “United Counties Omnibus Co. Ltd”. UCOC being more historic than a company set up in 1981! Bedford always seemed better managed by Northampton than Cambridge.

 

[Bungle965]

Let’s keep this on topic, remember this is for discuss of the new Stagecoach livery, anything else please feel free to create a new thread.

 

[Russel]

I can't link to the image as it's on Facebook, but Plaxton Elite 53719 was out and about in Blairgowrie today in what is a basic version of the 2020 Local Livery. It's application is slightly different in that the logo placement is the same as the distance livery, but it's white with a large coloured logo.

EDIT: It's on Flickr (not my image)

Stagecoach East Scotland 53719 SV11FSF

Stagecoach Blairgowrie

flic.kr

This looks a lot better than the actual 2020 local livery, smart and simple.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This looks a lot better than the actual 2020 local livery, smart and simple.

The colours are still Fisher Price, but that's much better than the originals, particularly the horrible "school bus yellow" that they allegedly think is premium.

Even the font is childlike.

 

[hdennis13]

Cambus is an interesting one. Remember that when it was originally split from Eastern Counties, Cambus was adopted for all Cambs services but then the Peterborough, Ely and March operations were rebranded as a rather non-geographic Viscount

SN66 WAA has been repainted into heritage Cambus livery.
Photo not mine, linked below.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/markp...hzS9e-2oaF5ev-2o9cSCA-2oa2s3h-2ohsNnC-2nNyJxU

 

[Leyland Bus]

SN66 WAA has been repainted into heritage Cambus livery

Now that's superb!

It's so nice to see all these liveries out and about and every single one is better than the allover blue/black scheme why they can't take some inspiration from all these and actually apply some effort to a decent colour scheme is beyond me...

 

[LUYMun]

Andover’s 47924 has been rolled out wearing Stagecoach’s 2020 Local livery, so it might be safe to say that the experimental black navy blue will stay as an experiment.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Andover’s 47924 has been rolled out wearing Stagecoach’s 2020 Local livery, so it might be safe to say that the experimental black navy blue will stay as an experiment.

Don't speak too soon! You'll jinx it!

 

[GoneSouth]

Andover’s 47924 has been rolled out wearing Stagecoach’s 2020 Local livery, so it might be safe to say that the experimental black navy blue will stay as an experiment.

To be fair almost anything would look better than the 2020 local nonsense. Just horrible, it devalues the brand, always looks patched up with slightly different shades of white and looks like some kids have been let loose with some crayons. What an abomination

 

[scosutsut]

I can't link to the image as it's on Facebook, but Plaxton Elite 53719 was out and about in Blairgowrie today in what is a basic version of the 2020 Local Livery. It's application is slightly different in that the logo placement is the same as the distance livery, but it's white with a large coloured logo.

EDIT: It's on Flickr (not my image)

Stagecoach East Scotland 53719 SV11FSF

Stagecoach Blairgowrie

flic.kr

That's the least awful thing I've seen from them in the post beachball era. It would appear to tick their "be simple" box, and I'd personally back anything that kills off the schoolbus express colours should that be the intent.

 

[GWVillager]

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but this has been a really interesting thread to read.

I think part of the problem is that the new branding is trying to go for a "plain and simple" style, whilst also retaining the bright array of colours in the Local rebrand. If they're going to go for a huge, solid plain, they need to drop some aspects of the logo - probably the orange if they're going with a navy livery. I made a (rough) photoshop of the livery with the orange replaced by the same dark blue and, whilst I can't share it as I don't have the permission of the original photographer, it definitely looks much better. This is also what made the Distance version of the 2020 rebrand the best of the lot, in my opinion.

As for the new slogan(s), if they are real, I don't see what they're doing. "We're here for you" doesn't really land when they've withdrawn your route or cut the running hours that you relied upon. "Proud to serve" was actually quite good, it reinforced the idea of a benevolent public service, and was probably targeted at local authorities eyeing up franchising just as much as passengers.

 

[Mollman]

I think part of the problem is that the new branding is trying to go for a "plain and simple" style, whilst also retaining the bright array of colours in the Local rebrand. If they're going to go for a huge, solid plain, they need to drop some aspects of the logo - probably the orange if they're going with a navy livery. I made a (rough) photoshop of the livery with the orange replaced by the same dark blue and, whilst I can't share it as I don't have the permission of the original photographer, it definitely looks much better. This is also what made the Distance version of the 2020 rebrand the best of the lot, in my opinion.

I sort of know what you mean. The distance livery was let down by the colour used for it which really didn't make it look professional. However the Ribble red and similar single colour with large beach ball liveries do look way better to me. There again I think they should have just adapted the Stagecoach Gold livery.

 

[Leyland Bus]

I sort of know what you mean. The distance livery was let down by the colour used for it which really didn't make it look professional. However the Ribble red and similar single colour with large beach ball liveries do look way better to me. There again I think they should have just adapted the Stagecoach Gold livery.

The Gold livery is/was a really nice colour scheme but not every opco has a spray booth (you can't brush paint metallic colours) so it's understandable how it didn't gain traction to be a main livery.

Local liveries in the style of the RIBBLE livery as mentioned would have been quite nice!

 

[GoneSouth]

The Gold livery is/was a really nice colour scheme but not every opco has a spray booth (you can't brush paint metallic colours) so it's understandable how it didn't gain traction to be a main livery.

Ah interesting. It did look very classy with the metallic paint, shame they couldn’t adopt it nationally. The flat bright blue, green and yellow on the other hand look like a complete botched job in comparison. Still can’t understand the thinking that signed that off

 

[fgwrich]

Andover’s 47924 has been rolled out wearing Stagecoach’s 2020 Local livery, so it might be safe to say that the experimental black navy blue will stay as an experiment.

It’s not the only one as ex PULSE 27680 (GX60PDZ) has also gone Local within the last week. Or the South does what it wants to again!

 

[DGP]

If I've understood it correctly, then the point of the potential new livery is to have something which is more easily maintainable - which I interpret as more paint, less vinyl. I can understand why us bus "fans" are not going to be happy with whatever that turns out to be if it's rolled out across the entire fleet - familiarity breeds contempt and all that, but I guess there are good corporate and logistical reasons for that and as long as the buses looks smart and cared for then passengers will be happy to use them and that I think is a win.

 

[Man of Kent]

If I've understood it correctly, then the point of the potential new livery is to have something which is more easily maintainable - which I interpret as more paint, less vinyl. I can understand why us bus "fans" are not going to be happy with whatever that turns out to be if it's rolled out across the entire fleet - familiarity breeds contempt and all that, but I guess there are good corporate and logistical reasons for that and as long as the buses looks smart and cared for then passengers will be happy to use them and that I think is a win.

The current Stagecoach livery is painted, which is why there is so much variation on what should be standard designs. I believe when it was introduced, designs were only provided to OpCos on a very limited number of vehicle types, hence widespread local interpretation to adapt it to other makes and models.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Gold livery is/was a really nice colour scheme but not every opco has a spray booth (you can't brush paint metallic colours) so it's understandable how it didn't gain traction to be a main livery.

Local liveries in the style of the RIBBLE livery as mentioned would have been quite nice!

The profusion of local variations of the livery (e.g. Devon General red, Interconnect purple, green eco-hybrid, green Lakes, green Sussex, Warwick Unibus, North Devon Wave blue, blue Sussex Coastliner) was one reason cited for having new three new liveries (though we still have a defined Lakes livery and a variation for Coastliner). It became an increasing hassle when moving vehicles around.

The main "local" livery was not well received by the Stagecoach managers I know, mainly as it would be difficult to apply, and to maintain with large areas of white skirt being prone to damage and road film. One of the benefits of beachball was it was stylish and practical.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The profusion of local variations of the livery (e.g. Devon General red, Interconnect purple, green eco-hybrid, green Lakes, green Sussex, Warwick Unibus, North Devon Wave blue, blue Sussex Coastliner) was one reason cited for having new three new liveries (though we still have a defined Lakes livery and a variation for Coastliner). It became an increasing hassle when moving vehicles around.

I suppose it's a credit to the quality of the original livery that it always looked good whichever colour palette was used. I always particularly liked the red in Devon, a good mix of the corporate identity with a local identity. It was obviously and at first glance Stagecoach but was also obviously Devonian.

But you'd think that if the primary objection was that there were too many local variations then the obvious solution would be just to tell the local OpCo managers to stop it.

They're still chasing something which they already had.