SWT_USER
Member
Will the current diagram then stick to Windsor all day? Presumably with a 458/4 or 450 going to the Hounslow loop service?
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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates
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TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
From what source sorry?
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Is this as in a second diagram or as an afternoon "fill in" on the existing diagram?
lxfe_mxtterz
Member
It was on a Traction & Traincrew Bulletin sent out today, but the wording is a bit vague and only says that the 701s "can run in passenger service between Earlsfield and Shepperton from 30th September."
The current diagram will change to run Windsor all day. Then Shepperton will be an additional diagram. I'm not sure if these two changes are planned on the same date.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Thank you.
Just seen this on a train crew bulletin in the sign on room, so it’s definitely true
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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Excellent news.
The plan for the 701 diagram next week, but don't shoot the messenger if it doesn't happen;
2U09 0633 Waterloo to Windsor
2U16 0751 Windsor to Waterloo
2U19 0903 Waterloo to Windsor
2U26 1021 Windsor to Waterloo
2U29 1133 Waterloo to Windsor
2U36 1251 Windsor to Waterloo
2U39 1403 Waterloo to Windsor
2U46 1521 Windsor to Waterloo
2U49 1633 Waterloo to Windsor
2U56 1751 Windsor to Waterloo
2U59 1903 Waterloo to Windsor
2U66 2021 Windsor to Waterloo
2U69 2133 Waterloo to Windsor
2U76 2251 Windsor to Waterloo
2U09 0633 Waterloo to Windsor
2U16 0751 Windsor to Waterloo
2U19 0903 Waterloo to Windsor
2U26 1021 Windsor to Waterloo
2U29 1133 Waterloo to Windsor
2U36 1251 Windsor to Waterloo
2U39 1403 Waterloo to Windsor
2U46 1521 Windsor to Waterloo
2U49 1633 Waterloo to Windsor
2U56 1751 Windsor to Waterloo
2U59 1903 Waterloo to Windsor
2U66 2021 Windsor to Waterloo
2U69 2133 Waterloo to Windsor
2U76 2251 Windsor to Waterloo
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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Thanks for the info.
SWT_USER
Member
Good news, and if the diagram posted is right then it will be my train home! 
My one moan would be that they are avoiding the busiest period of both peak travel directions with this diagram - and SWR should be concentrating the few remaining 10 carriage trains on the busiest services. 10 carriages would benefit more people on the 06:56 or 07:26 from Windsor - although presumably not as operationally convenient for SWR.
My one moan would be that they are avoiding the busiest period of both peak travel directions with this diagram - and SWR should be concentrating the few remaining 10 carriage trains on the busiest services. 10 carriages would benefit more people on the 06:56 or 07:26 from Windsor - although presumably not as operationally convenient for SWR.
Seems like a fairly gentle ramp up after so many previous failures. Makes sense to me.Good news, and if the diagram posted is right then it will be my train home!
My one moan would be that they are avoiding the busiest period of both peak travel directions with this diagram - and SWR should be concentrating the few remaining 10 carriage trains on the busiest services. 10 carriages would benefit more people on the 06:56 or 07:26 from Windsor - although presumably not as operationally convenient for SWR.
The change to the current diagram from next week doesn't release any additional stock. It might not feel like it but with the current diagram despite only being three services it is covering an entire diagram. That's why it switched from the 3 AM Windsor round trips.
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
That is the nature of diagrams and 'new' stock to service. In the early days of passenger running, new stock (ie 701) will more than likely be required to start from/finish at the relevant maintenance depot (Wombleland in this case I suspect?) and the very nature of such diagrams often means that they miss one (or both) core peak hours in the main flow direction. To start swapping/switching such diagrams (and related crew diagrams) in the peak periods for what might only be a few weeks - to match busiest services from day one - will put undue risk in to the plan. The more units come 'on line' over the coming weeks, the faster the roll out will happen, allowing a greater number of services to regain 10 car format over coming months, but to mix and match diagrams during this very early stage of the roll out, could cause more problems than it solves.
I had this very discussion with one or two senior people in relation to the 458/5 rollout plans over a decade ago (in relation to one train in particular), but after explaining a number of pertinent facts relating to the diagram in question, they came to understand that the train concerned, although % wise was top of the most overcrowded of the Windsor side services due to gain 458/5, it had to wait its spot in the overall plan, if that plan was to roll out as smoothly as wished. As it was this was about half way through said plan, and was partly reliant on additional stabling space coming on line.
SWT_USER
Member
Thanks. I do get the reasons for it, and hopefully things will ramp up more quickly now anyway. Out of interest is that the only Windsor diagram that starts and ends at Wimbledon Park? Or could they have chosen another (not that it would necessarily have made any difference to my point).
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
Can't comment, as I'm long out of the industry, but that is how previous new stock roll outs have commenced. Was just basing my comments on the diagram posted above, and assuming it is a Wimbledon start/finish? My thinking that one wouldn't want the first few diagrams of new stock starting and ending at outlying locations where there is no access to maintenance facilities. That is asking for failure. After the first few are up and running with regular reliability then I suspect over night stabling elsewhere will start to happen, albeit this has to happen so that unit numbers are 'balanced' each night at each location, which in itself, can also lead to some diagrams working trains that are perhaps not the most critical in loading terms. If I were a betting man, Clapham Yard may well also take a major roll initially, due in part to its proximity to Wimbledon, whereby any failures can be tripped between the two without too much headache. But I speak from past events, so I may be wide of the mark?
NSEWonderer
Established Member
Pretty sure it was around 5 - 6 units passenger ready(tested) and then in addition to those a few specfically for driver training use.
43096
On Moderation
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So that begs the question of what progress is being made with unit commissioning.
It would be so very, very SWR to start having trained crews available but then find there’s no trains for them to work because commissioning hadn’t been done.
According to ASLEF, only 3 are deemed useable in passenger service currently
SWT_USER
Member
From an ASLEF perspective what is stopping the units used for driver training from entering passenger service?
I can't imagine they could care less about the passenger areas.
I’m not sure if it’s an ASLEF thing unfortunately
GW43125
Established Member
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- 2,313
What happened to the other 2 which ran in service at the tail end of last year?
NSEWonderer
Established Member
SWT_USER
Member
I misunderstood your post as meaning ASLEF had only agreed 3 were fit for passenger service.
Pretty poor so few are ready but given the fiasco it's been so far I guess we shouldn't be surprised. Given how long some of the units have been in storage I hope there's not any major work required or problems with damp/ mould.