Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

[Wivenswold]

Where do the 720s go overnight?

When it comes to commuter routes into London it makes sense to have most of your rolling stock stored away from the capital and in place to run into the city in the morning.

It not only reduces the need for ECS runs before the peak, but land is cheaper away from London and so are staff wages.
On the down side, if you get an issue that means units from (for example) Clacton are stuck there it can seriously impact the service downstream which is something that I find passengers can struggle to grasp. "Why are Chelmsford trains affected by a signal failure at a depot on a branch line 40 miles away?" sort of thing.

 

[GeoffS]

From what I’ve been told, yes. (Don’t shoot messenger if it’s only part of it)

Thanks - don't worry, I won't!

 

[720144]

720534 is at Longsight.

only 1 coach on its own without the other 4.

 

[800001]

720516

As I posted, 720534 is there! As confirmed by a member of the Alstom team who is responsible for commissioning the trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2024 ==

720516

720516 left Manchester April 18th heading south by road, so what does your message about 720516 mean?

 

[markglos]

Are there any updates? I have the following not in service
At Derby 104 139 141 143 144 502 503 504 505 510 511 515 516 519 520
At Worksop 537
At Ilford 137 140
At Longsight 534

 

[AC47461]

511, 519 and 520 are out and about. 140 has definitely been out on test, might even be in service.

 

[720144]

Are there any updates? I have the following not in service
At Derby 104 139 141 143 144 502 503 504 505 510 511 515 516 519 520
At Worksop 537
At Ilford 137 140
At Longsight 534

511, 515, 516, 519, 520 & 537 have been in service for sometime, 515 is at Worksop for major upgrades as of formerly 511 went there. 137 has gone back to derby for some fault occurring with the traction, 140 is at ilford awaiting for testing & ps which leaves 104 137 139 140 141 143 144 502 503 504 505 510 & 534 (13) units left to complete the formation delivery. Most recent units in service is 142, 138, 519, 101 & 102. The single front coach off 534 has recently been transported on a lorry from longsight possibly to derby for coupling up to the other 4 coaches & be ready for towing.

 

[800001]

511, 515, 516, 519, 520 & 537 have been in service for sometime, 515 is at Worksop for major upgrades as of formerly 511 went there. 137 has gone back to derby for some fault occurring with the traction, 140 is at ilford awaiting for testing & ps which leaves 104 137 139 140 141 143 144 502 503 504 505 510 & 534 (13) units left to complete the formation delivery. Most recent units in service is 142, 138, 519, 101 & 102. The single front coach off 534 has recently been transported on a lorry from longsight possibly to derby for coupling up to the other 4 coaches & be ready for towing.

720516 has not been in service, it is at Derby and has been there for about 2 years, it has also had a short visit to Longsight depot.
Last observed at Litchurch lane in the middle of the sheds.

 

[1D54]

720516 has not been in service, it is at Derby and has been there for about 2 years, it has also had a short visit to Longsight depot.
Last observed at Litchurch lane in the middle of the sheds.

You said it left Manchester on April 18th in post #2, 914.

 

[800001]

You said it left Manchester on April 18th in post #2, 914.

Reread what I wrote in post 2918!

 

[1D54]

Reread what I wrote in post 2918!

Indeed. My apologies.

 

[markglos]

thanks for the info

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

511, 515, 516, 519, 520 & 537 have been in service for sometime, 515 is at Worksop for major upgrades as of formerly 511 went there. 137 has gone back to derby for some fault occurring with the traction, 140 is at ilford awaiting for testing & ps which leaves 104 137 139 140 141 143 144 502 503 504 505 510 & 534 (13) units left to complete the formation delivery. Most recent units in service is 142, 138, 519, 101 & 102. The single front coach off 534 has recently been transported on a lorry from longsight possibly to derby for coupling up to the other 4 coaches & be ready for towing.

I was on 511 recently and the seats around the entrance are definitely better

 

[720144]

I was on 511 recently and the seats around the entrance are definitely better

hopefully the exact same configuration has happened to 515 as soon as it returns back to ilford.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

Are there any updates? I have the following not in service
At Derby 104 139 141 143 144 502 503 504 505 510 511 515 516 519 520
At Worksop 537
At Ilford 137 140
At Longsight 534

I was wondering what is going to happen to the 720s that is not in service.

 

[Covshire1]

I was wondering what is going to happen to the 720s that is not in service.

Believe that 720502 went to Willesden today on 5Q68...

 

[Peter Sarf]

Believe that 720502 went to Willesden today on 5Q68...

Confirmed with my own eyes this evening poking out of both ends of the shed on the road nearest to the WCML.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

I wonder if GA over-ordered on the 720s?

 

[Trainbike46]

I wonder if GA over-ordered on the 720s?

in 2019 I believe the view was that they ordered about the right number of 720s, and not enough 745s. Then COVID happened, and views have changed somewhat, but I think in the long-term they got about the right number of 720s (and too few 745s)

 

[Kite159]

I wonder if GA over-ordered on the 720s?

Based on the expected timetable in 2019 before Covid stuck and timetables cut. Especially some of the peak time extra services which have been cut (ie Ely - Kings Lynn).

 

[47421]

As things have turned out they have

• many too many 720s as planned service uplifts not delivered (in fact have been some minor service reductions compared with pre-covid), and some services originally planned for 10 car can get by with 5 car in post covid world
• too few 745s as order was based on speeded up Norwich Liv St timetable with 1hr40/45 standard journey time and units cycling every 4 hours
• too many 755s as order was based on service uplift to Yarmouth (1 extra diagram), extension of some Lowestoft Ipswich to Liv St (2 extra diagrams) and Ipswich Peterborough going hourly (1 or 2 extra diagrams)

In practice the spare 755s are being used to cover for 745s on Liv St Norwich. But looks like there will be many spare 720s for the forseeable future, as timetable enhancements not happening, and long distance commuting well down still so for example some Camb services look like they can stay 5 car in medium term

 

[NSEWonderer]

Having too many 720s isn't too bad to be honest, plus I would assume there is the option of using some of those to replace some of C2Cs 357s if the time ever came for that.

 

[Mikey C]

Having too many 720s isn't too bad to be honest, plus I would assume there is the option of using some of those to replace some of C2Cs 357s if the time ever came for that.

It is a waste of money though, when other parts of the network don't have enough stock.

Indeed we do seem to have situation where the mega orders placed before Covid have not only given an excess of new units, but also of displaced mid life units. Resulting in some operators having the luxury of generous fleets of common stock, while others have to make do with very tight fleets or fleets made up of incompatible stock...

 

[Trainbike46]

As things have turned out they have

• many too many 720s as planned service uplifts not delivered (in fact have been some minor service reductions compared with pre-covid), and some services originally planned for 10 car can get by with 5 car in post covid world
• too few 745s as order was based on speeded up Norwich Liv St timetable with 1hr40/45 standard journey time and units cycling every 4 hours
• too many 755s as order was based on service uplift to Yarmouth (1 extra diagram), extension of some Lowestoft Ipswich to Liv St (2 extra diagrams) and Ipswich Peterborough going hourly (1 or 2 extra diagrams)

In practice the spare 755s are being used to cover for 745s on Liv St Norwich. But looks like there will be many spare 720s for the forseeable future, as timetable enhancements not happening, and long distance commuting well down still so for example some Camb services look like they can stay 5 car in medium term

I do hope some of the timetable improvements do get implemented, though delayed. I know there are restrictions on the timetable that mean not all are possible without infrastructure works, but I do hope those that are possible get implemented

 

[NSEWonderer]

It is a waste of money though, when other parts of the network don't have enough stock.

Indeed we do seem to have situation where the mega orders placed before Covid have not only given an excess of new units, but also of displaced mid life units. Resulting in some operators having the luxury of generous fleets of common stock, while others have to make do with very tight fleets or fleets made up of incompatible stock...

Agreed to some level but then there is nothing stopping units being moved around to these said TOCs if and when its really and truly determined that said TOC will have a surplus for an unhealthy amount of Time. Could be interesting to see nonetheless what happens with them.

 

[Class15]

Agreed to some level but then there is nothing stopping units being moved around to these said TOCs if and when its really and truly determined that said TOC will have a surplus for an unhealthy amount of Time. Could be interesting to see nonetheless what happens with them.

Do the Class 720 units have passive provision for third rail operation?

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

As things have turned out they have

• many too many 720s as planned service uplifts not delivered (in fact have been some minor service reductions compared with pre-covid), and some services originally planned for 10 car can get by with 5 car in post covid world
• too few 745s as order was based on speeded up Norwich Liv St timetable with 1hr40/45 standard journey time and units cycling every 4 hours
• too many 755s as order was based on service uplift to Yarmouth (1 extra diagram), extension of some Lowestoft Ipswich to Liv St (2 extra diagrams) and Ipswich Peterborough going hourly (1 or 2 extra diagrams)

In practice the spare 755s are being used to cover for 745s on Liv St Norwich. But looks like there will be many spare 720s for the forseeable future, as timetable enhancements not happening, and long distance commuting well down still so for example some Camb services look like they can stay 5 car in medium term

Well if you have the spare trains, you may as well use them to double to 10 cars

 

[robert west]

Well if you have the spare trains, you may as well use them to double to 10 cars

there was a 5q30 derby to ilford today was that a 720 being delivered

 

[800001]

there was a 5q30 derby to ilford today was that a 720 being delivered

720515 back again

 

[robert west]

720515 back again

thanks