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Lichfield - Burton reopening commissioned reports and appraisals

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lachlan

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Now add on 10 minutes walking time at either end to and from the train stations into the town centres and the journey time compared to the bus isn't too different.
Burton granted, but Lichfield City station appears to be around where the bus starts.

From Trent Valley Google already suggests the train (with a 12min change) is quicker than the bus so chances are anyone without a bus pass is already making this journey by train...
 
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Russel

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Burton granted, but Lichfield City station appears to be around where the bus starts.

From Trent Valley Google already suggests the train (with a 12min change) is quicker than the bus so chances are anyone without a bus pass is already making this journey by train...

You'd be relying on a connection at Trent Valley being under 5 minutes for the journey to be any quicker than the bus.

Regarding your second point about people already making the journey by train, a quick look on National Rail suggests the journey time is 1hr 5min with 2 changes at Trent Valley and Tamworth with an anytime ticket price of £18 upwards, do you really think this is tempting people away from a 35 minute bus journey that costs £2?
 

Sniffingmoose

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the Lichfield to Burton bus service is taking a lot longer at the moment because of a new weight limit at Branston Railway Bridge so busses are diverted and the A38 northbound slip road closure because of HS2 work meaning another long diversion so as a Burton Resident I would like a direct rail service.
 

Russel

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the Lichfield to Burton bus service is taking a lot longer at the moment because of a new weight limit at Branston Railway Bridge so busses are diverted and the A38 northbound slip road closure because of HS2 work meaning another long diversion so as a Burton Resident I would like a direct rail service.

Yes, the HS2 work is a pain at the moment, I remember when the X12 took 30 minutes max.

As much as I'd like a direct service, given the state of the countrys and railways finances, I just can't see how it would be in any way a viable proposal.
 

lachlan

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You'd be relying on a connection at Trent Valley being under 5 minutes for the journey to be any quicker than the bus.

Regarding your second point about people already making the journey by train, a quick look on National Rail suggests the journey time is 1hr 5min with 2 changes at Trent Valley and Tamworth with an anytime ticket price of £18 upwards, do you really think this is tempting people away from a 35 minute bus journey that costs £2?
Per my post, I was looking at journeys from the Trent Valley area
 

Russel

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Per my post, I was looking at journeys from the Trent Valley area

Again, I disagree, the X12 bus passes close to Trent Valley station with a journey time of around 30 minutes and a £2 flat fare, £4 return...

The train, from Trent Valley, 30 minute journey with a change at Tamworth, fare around £8 return, off peak...

Overall the journey times may be comparable, but in every other aspect, the train has no advantage, it's double the price with a change of train onto what is usually a full and standing Cross-country 3 car 170 service that isn't exactly famous for it's punctuality.

So, on what grounds are you coming to the conclusion that "anyone without a bus pass is already making this journey by train"?

As someone from the local area, I'm clearly missing something.
 

LLivery

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Many (25+) years ago the old Highways Agency were interested in extending the Cross City north to a strategic park and ride near Fradley, where there was planned (and has been built) a major housing scheme alongside continued expansion of the logistics park on the old airfield. Not interested enough to fund anything, although I know the County Structure Plan did make developer contributions to "improved public transport" a condition of the housing development, much to the irritation of the builders. The A38 is seen as a major problem by the highways authorities and a substantial number of car commuters originate on the A38 from places like Barton under Needwood, so having a park and ride at Fradley would help reduce congestion on the A38 where lorries going to the logistics park have to fight for space with traffic for Birmingham. The car park at Lichfield TV has already been expanded, but if a park and ride for cross city customers could be put in at Fradley, it would reduce the competition for parking spaces at LTV for London bound traffic. Add in a turn back station at Alrewas for the National Arboretum, and you might be able to do that with a battery retrofitted Class 730, off the back of strategic park and ride, without electrification.

This isn't gum-flapping, it has been discussed a number of times but previous discussions were thwarted by the cost of wiring and the need for extra stock. Battery operation if possible and viable, might make it possible. I do agree though Burton to Lichfield isn't a major demand flow, nor is Burton to Birmingham, but expanded villages like Alrewas, Barton and Fradley, do throw a lot of commuters onto the A38 for whom a bus is not an option, but might be tempted by a secure park and ride by electric train.

I wouldn't be surprised if this comes back up. Considering the housing plans to be announced, housing expansion in and around Lichfield, Pelsall, Hammerwich, Aldridge (acknowledging there is green belt) seems like a no brainer, especially if you can couple it with rail investment. Getting the Walsall to Lichfield via Brownhills route reopened, along with Lichfield to Burton could get a lot of housing built. In that case you could extend Walsall terminators via Brownhills, through Lichfield to Burton and extend Cross City to a new Pkwy station with several platforms.
 

The Planner

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I wouldn't be surprised if this comes back up. Considering the housing plans to be announced, housing expansion in and around Lichfield, Pelsall, Hammerwich, Aldridge (acknowledging there is green belt) seems like a no brainer, especially if you can couple it with rail investment. Getting the Walsall to Lichfield via Brownhills route reopened, along with Lichfield to Burton could get a lot of housing built. In that case you could extend Walsall terminators via Brownhills, through Lichfield to Burton and extend Cross City to a new Pkwy station with several platforms.
Aldridge is the only plan with any future. You are also falling into the "just" need to do or "easy" to deliver hole. If it was such a no brainer, why aren't Midlands Rail Hub delivering it?
 

Meerkat

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Any extension of the Cross City would make for a long slow journey!
For new connectivity how about rebuilding the Brownhills line and running Burton-Lichfield-Walsall-Wolverhampton?
If there is space on the line south of BuRoth I would think there are better uses for it though.
 

ChrisC

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Reopening to regular passenger services, with a station at the National Arboretum, has been proposed many times. I've found many documents online saying 'hey yeah, that's a great idea' but nothing that goes beyond aspiration. What I'm wondering is whether a (publicly available) document exists that says 'building a station at the Arboretum would be X; rolling stock and staffing costs would be Y; passenger projections are Z; and the calculated BCR is 1.7' or similar.
If a regular passenger service were to be introduced between Lichfield and Burton upon Trent at some point in the future I wonder if a station at the National Memorial Arboretum would be viable. Currently it’s only practical to visit there by car as there isn‘t even a bus service. I’ve been intending to visit the arboretum for some time now but it will have to be a drive down the A38 from home. I looked at staying for a couple of nights in a Lichfield hotel and going by bus but the walk from the nearest bus stop in Alrewas does not look very pleasant. Apparently it’s a walk of around 30 minutes along main roads including negotiating the A38 slip roads and roundabout.
 

gg1

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Any extension of the Cross City would make for a long slow journey!
For new connectivity how about rebuilding the Brownhills line and running Burton-Lichfield-Walsall-Wolverhampton?
A more sensible idea than extending the Cross City to Burton.

Such a service would be a better option for people travelling between Walsall/Wolverhampton (and possibly Shropshire & mid Wales too) to the East Midlands and NE England than changing at New Street, admittedly these passenger numbers wouldn't be massive but would surely be higher than those wanting to travel between Sutton Coldfield and points north. Also a better use of resources, it's hard to envision any service on the Wolves-Walsall-Lichfield corridor being greater than 3 cars in length, extend the cross city to Burton and you'd have very lightly loaded 6 car trains between Lichfield and Burton.
 

Fidelis

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Part of the original proposal was DMUs running onwards through to Derby via Burton thus relieving the dependency on the poor XC services.
 

LLivery

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Aldridge is the only plan with any future. You are also falling into the "just" need to do or "easy" to deliver hole. If it was such a no brainer, why aren't Midlands Rail Hub delivering it?

Because I said the housing is a no brainer, not the railway. The infrastructure should be implemented based on supporting housing targets. I'm fully aware it's not easy, and we need quite a bit of reform in the planning system. Having said that, Walsall to Lichfield has decent merit without very significant numbers of housing. Long term, I do believe both routes will reopen fully, just not now.
 

duffield

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If a regular passenger service were to be introduced between Lichfield and Burton upon Trent at some point in the future I wonder if a station at the National Memorial Arboretum would be viable. Currently it’s only practical to visit there by car as there isn‘t even a bus service. I’ve been intending to visit the arboretum for some time now but it will have to be a drive down the A38 from home. I looked at staying for a couple of nights in a Lichfield hotel and going by bus but the walk from the nearest bus stop in Alrewas does not look very pleasant. Apparently it’s a walk of around 30 minutes along main roads including negotiating the A38 slip roads and roundabout.
The A38 does look nasty to cross, true (there is a marked crossing point with refuges) but apart from that, the nearest bus stop (on Main Street just before it meets the A38, served by the No. 12 from Burton to Lichfield) is actually only half a mile from the Arboretum entrance and once over the A38, the walk is down the (presumably pretty quiet) dead end Croxall Road, over Alrewas Station level crossing. There is a pavement so you're not walking in the road. Shouldn't take more than ten minutes.
 

ChrisC

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The A38 does look nasty to cross, true (there is a marked crossing point with refuges) but apart from that, the nearest bus stop (on Main Street just before it meets the A38, served by the No. 12 from Burton to Lichfield) is actually only half a mile from the Arboretum entrance and once over the A38, the walk is down the (presumably pretty quiet) dead end Croxall Road, over Alrewas Station level crossing. There is a pavement so you're not walking in the road. Shouldn't take more than ten minutes.
That’s interesting but certainly not the route suggested on the National Memorial Arboretum Website. The website directs you from the bus stop near the Alrewas Royal British Legion close to the A513 junction and then crossing over the bridges at the junction and walking a footpath adjacent to the southbound carriageway of the A38 until you reach Croxhall Road. This they state is a walk of 20-30 minutes. Perhaps the crossing of the A38 you refer to is considered too dangerous although I agree it wouldn’t take more than 10 minutes to walk. I still think I might give it a miss and drive from home as it will only take about 1hr 15 minutes.

Returning to the subject of the thread and a station at the National Memorial. I wonder if there is enough demand if it doesn’t even currently have a bus service.
 

Russel

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Returning to the subject of the thread and a station at the National Memorial. I wonder if there is enough demand if it doesn’t even currently have a bus service.

If somewhere doesn't justify a direct bus service, even discussing train services is pointless.

I get that the Arboretum is a significant place for many, but emotion doesn't pay for an eye wateringly expensive train station.
 

DynamicSpirit

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If somewhere doesn't justify a direct bus service, even discussing train services is pointless.

By that logic, I guess Wanborough station in Surrey is pointless? ;)

I don't know anything about the specific case of the Arboretum but I'm not sure you can rule out the utility of rail purely because there are no bus services. There are a few places where the geography/road layout means it's more convenient for a train than a bus to serve them.
 

Russel

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By that logic, I guess Wanborough station in Surrey is pointless? ;)

I don't know anything about the specific case of the Arboretum but I'm not sure you can rule out the utility of rail purely because there are no bus services. There are a few places where the geography/road layout means it's more convenient for a train than a bus to serve them.

I disagree, if there isn't the passenger numbers to justify a local bus service which compared to rail cost very little to run, constructing and operating a train station would be a huge waste tax payers money.
 
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