Lichfield - Burton reopening commissioned reports and appraisals

[jp4712]

I've had a search in the forums, but can't find anything so far...

Reopening Lichfield - Burton gets talked about from time to time, and seemingly at a relatively serious level. Can anyone please point me to a formal appraisal that might have been done by NR, or by someone that's not just a sheet of paper and a box of crayons; and ideally with a calculated BCR for the proposal? Many thanks.

 

[takno]

I've had a search in the forums, but can't find anything so far...

Reopening Lichfield - Burton gets talked about from time to time, and seemingly at a relatively serious level. Can anyone please point me to a formal appraisal that might have been done by NR, or by someone that's not just a sheet of paper and a box of crayons; and ideally with a calculated BCR for the proposal? Many thanks.

What do you mean by reopening in this context? The line is there and is fairly well-used, including quite regularly by cross-country trains.

There aren't any stations, and there isn't a timetabled passenger service from Lichfield to Burton, but it looks like Arlewas was the only long-term station on it anyway, so it's not really clear what flows it would serve.

 

[jp4712]

Reopening to regular passenger services, with a station at the National Arboretum, has been proposed many times. I've found many documents online saying 'hey yeah, that's a great idea' but nothing that goes beyond aspiration. What I'm wondering is whether a (publicly available) document exists that says 'building a station at the Arboretum would be X; rolling stock and staffing costs would be Y; passenger projections are Z; and the calculated BCR is 1.7' or similar.

 

[zwk500]

In the June 2022 Project update, Lichfield to Burton is listed as Unsuccessful in Ideas Fund 1 & 3.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62d6c9e6d3bf7f28583b0179/restoring-your-railway-programme-update.pdf

There was a high-level assessment carried out as part of the Ideas fund bid: https://arboretumline.uk/wp-content...Proposal-Lichfield-Alrewas-Burton-Final-1.pdf

The lack of anything else concrete might suggest it hasn't ever got as far as somebody willing to put up the 80-100k needed to go into the detail of costing and evaluating the proposal.

 

[jp4712]

This is just what I was looking for, thank you.

 

[thecrofter]

The Lichfield Rail Promotion Group (LRPG) has been campaigning for this for many years but they seem to have gone quiet since Covid. They started a petition back in 2014 (!) but little came of it. I don't think they were ever taken seriously as an organization that carried any weight.

Lichfield Rail Promotion Group

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Lichfield/Sutton Coldfield to the north is really the only significant flow that this would help - and you can do that by changing at Tamworth or New Street anyway.

Burton to Birmingham is always going to be quicker via the CrossCountry services than by extending the Cross-City. Burton people don't really want to go to Lichfield, and Lichfield people don't want to go to Burton. Having lived in Burton for several years, my sympathies are with Lichfield on this one.

Alrewas is a pleasant enough place but very small.

If Derby–Birmingham via Burton were electrified anyway you could maybe make a case for a bit of infill and extending the occasional CrossCity, but even then I'd be very surprised if it stacked up.

 

[zwk500]

The Lichfield Rail Promotion Group (LRPG) has been campaigning for this for many years but they seem to have gone quiet since Covid. They started a petition back in 2014 (!) but little came of it. I don't think they were ever taken seriously as an organization that carried any weight.

Lichfield Rail Promotion Group

can't think why.

 

[Bald Rick]

I‘ve never seen any work done on this.

 

[Nottingham59]

At the risk of drifting into speculative territory, I'm expecting the Birmingham-Derby corridor to receive a lot more focus over the next few years, when politicians realise that a 2km chord at Kingsbury would allow HS2 trains to reach the 125mph Birmingham-Derby line.

This would allow HS2 trains to reach Derby and Sheffield and would put Burton-on-Trent just 55 to 60 minutes journey time away from Old Oak Common.

Any analysis of the options would include how to get local services out of the way of perhaps 2tph to London and 2tph to Curzon St, which may include looking at sending Burton commuters on the slower route to Birmingham via Lichfield.

 

[The Planner]

At the risk of drifting into speculative territory, I'm expecting the Birmingham-Derby corridor to receive a lot more focus over the next few years, when politicians realise that a 2km chord at Kingsbury would allow HS2 trains to reach the 125mph Birmingham-Derby line.

This would allow HS2 trains to reach Derby and Sheffield and would put Burton-on-Trent just 55 to 60 minutes journey time away from Old Oak Common.

Any analysis of the options would include how to get local services out of the way of perhaps 2tph to London and 2tph to Curzon St, which may include looking at sending Burton commuters on the slower route to Birmingham via Lichfield.

Where are the wires coming from and where is the freight going? Midlands Rail Hub aren't providing them.

 

[dangie]

There is already a good half hourly bus service between Lichfield & Burton which takes 35-40 minutes from town centre to town centre with intermediate stops, so any rail service would have to compete with that.

 

[Nottingham59]

Where are the wires coming from and where is the freight going? Midlands Rail Hub aren't providing them.

Electrification of Birmingham to Derby would have to be included in any such scheme.

The line from Derby used to be four track all the way to Willington, and again from north Burton to Branston. So there's scope for more and longer passing loops for freight. Any analysis would look at sending more freight through Lichfield and perhaps grade separating both Stenson Junction and North Stafford junction (possible with a single viaduct).

I'm not saying this will happen. But I do expect that options to connect HS2 to Sheffield will be looked at some time in the next few years, which should include appraisal of this corridor. Which is the topic of this thread.

Midlands Connect's plans for the Midlands Rail Hub were predicated on the Integrated Rail Plan, and therefore need updating to reflect the new status of HS2.

 

[The Planner]

Electrification of Birmingham to Derby would have to be included in any such scheme.

The line from Derby used to be four track all the way to Willington, and again from north Burton to Branston. So there's scope for more and longer passing loops for freight. Any analysis would look at sending more freight through Lichfield and perhaps grade separating both Stenson Junction and North Stafford junction (possible with a single viaduct).

I'm not saying this will happen. But I do expect that options to connect HS2 to Sheffield will be looked at some time in the next few years, which should include appraisal of this corridor. Which is the topic of this thread.

Midlands Connect's plans for the Midlands Rail Hub were predicated on the Integrated Rail Plan, and therefore need updating to reflect the new status of HS2.

You won't get freight along the cross city and its not just as simple as saying HS2 can join at Kingsbury.

 

[185]

I'd say the good burghers of Burton would be made up with extra Lichfield trains given the generally more reliable service on the xcity... speak to many, fed up with long waits and terrible connection times at Tamworth coming off the WCML.

The big cost issue will be not only the electrification, also the removal / consolidation of the many level crossings.

 

[Russel]

There is already a good half hourly bus service between Lichfield & Burton which takes 35-40 minutes from town centre to town centre with intermediate stops, so any rail service would have to compete with that.

Agreed, the villages including Alrewas area also served by buses roughly every hour, many of which are lightly loaded.

I just can't see how passenger services would make any financial sense.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Burton to Birmingham is always going to be quicker via the CrossCountry services than by extending the Cross-City. Burton people don't really want to go to Lichfield, and Lichfield people don't want to go to Burton. Having lived in Burton for several years, my sympathies are with Lichfield on this one.

Surely you could price Brum commuters onto the extended CrossCity services by competitively priced advances, relieving capacity on XC a bit.

 

[MarkWiles]

Many (25+) years ago the old Highways Agency were interested in extending the Cross City north to a strategic park and ride near Fradley, where there was planned (and has been built) a major housing scheme alongside continued expansion of the logistics park on the old airfield. Not interested enough to fund anything, although I know the County Structure Plan did make developer contributions to "improved public transport" a condition of the housing development, much to the irritation of the builders. The A38 is seen as a major problem by the highways authorities and a substantial number of car commuters originate on the A38 from places like Barton under Needwood, so having a park and ride at Fradley would help reduce congestion on the A38 where lorries going to the logistics park have to fight for space with traffic for Birmingham. The car park at Lichfield TV has already been expanded, but if a park and ride for cross city customers could be put in at Fradley, it would reduce the competition for parking spaces at LTV for London bound traffic. Add in a turn back station at Alrewas for the National Arboretum, and you might be able to do that with a battery retrofitted Class 730, off the back of strategic park and ride, without electrification.

This isn't gum-flapping, it has been discussed a number of times but previous discussions were thwarted by the cost of wiring and the need for extra stock. Battery operation if possible and viable, might make it possible. I do agree though Burton to Lichfield isn't a major demand flow, nor is Burton to Birmingham, but expanded villages like Alrewas, Barton and Fradley, do throw a lot of commuters onto the A38 for whom a bus is not an option, but might be tempted by a secure park and ride by electric train.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Many (25+) years ago the old Highways Agency were interested in extending the Cross City north to a strategic park and ride near Fradley, where there was planned (and has been built) a major housing scheme alongside continued expansion of the logistics park on the old airfield. Not interested enough to fund anything, although I know the County Structure Plan did make developer contributions to "improved public transport" a condition of the housing development, much to the irritation of the builders. The A38 is seen as a major problem by the highways authorities and a substantial number of car commuters originate on the A38 from places like Barton under Needwood, so having a park and ride at Fradley would help reduce congestion on the A38 where lorries going to the logistics park have to fight for space with traffic for Birmingham. The car park at Lichfield TV has already been expanded, but if a park and ride for cross city customers could be put in at Fradley, it would reduce the competition for parking spaces at LTV for London bound traffic. Add in a turn back station at Alrewas for the National Arboretum, and you might be able to do that with a battery retrofitted Class 730, off the back of strategic park and ride, without electrification.

This isn't gum-flapping, it has been discussed a number of times but previous discussions were thwarted by the cost of wiring and the need for extra stock. Battery operation if possible and viable, might make it possible. I do agree though Burton to Lichfield isn't a major demand flow, nor is Burton to Birmingham, but expanded villages like Alrewas, Barton and Fradley, do throw a lot of commuters onto the A38 for whom a bus is not an option, but might be tempted by a secure park and ride by electric train.

Interesting proposal. Why do you think Burton is too far?

 

[GingerSte]

... Burton people don't really want to go to Lichfield, and Lichfield people don't want to go to Burton. ...

I would have thought that it's not just about those trips. You also have all points north/east of Burton: Derby, Nottingham, etc. Yes, you can go via Brum, but it's a long way round on a commute. You can also change at Tamworth, assuming XC have deigned to call there at the time.

There isn't a huge amount of infrastructure work that needs doing. The single unelectrified line is already there, and would only need doubling/electrifying if the service usage demanded it.

I would also argue that some of these places would really benefit from just having another service (or two) per hour, so these new services wouldn't exactly be empty.

If someone were to start a service going that way, though, I would consider limited stops on the X City Line (eg Aston, Sutton Coldfield, Litchfield, Alrewas*), and then stopping at Barton Under Needwood*, Branston*, Burton, Stretton (north Burton)*, Sinfin (south Derby)*, Peartree and Derby. Maybe extend to Nottingham.

(* new stations)

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Wouldn’t it be better to incorporate a Burton/Lichfield service into a Lichfield/Brownhills/Walsall service?

I believe the track bed has been protected from development and the idea of reopening has been floated a few times in recent years.

 

[GingerSte]

Wouldn’t it be better to incorporate a Burton/Lichfield service into a Lichfield/Brownhills/Walsall service?

I believe the track bed has been protected from development and the idea of reopening has been floated a few times in recent years.

Instead of? I'd prefer not. Sutton Coldfield wouldn't benefit from those connections I mentioned above.

As well as? I'd prefer that. You could have 1 TPH going via Sutton Coldfield plus 1 TPH going via Walsall and Brownhills. Obviously both of those could increase as demand requires.

 

[Bald Rick]

If someone were to start a service going that way, though, I would consider limited stops on the X City Line (eg Aston, Sutton Coldfield, Litchfield, Alrewas*), and then stopping at Barton Under Needwood*, Branston*, Burton, Stretton (north Burton)*, Sinfin (south Derby)*, Peartree and Derby. Maybe extend to Nottingham.

Limited stop won’t fit in the timetable without a lot of pathing time which extends the journey time.

 

[The Planner]

I would have thought that it's not just about those trips. You also have all points north/east of Burton: Derby, Nottingham, etc. Yes, you can go via Brum, but it's a long way round on a commute. You can also change at Tamworth, assuming XC have deigned to call there at the time.

There isn't a huge amount of infrastructure work that needs doing. The single unelectrified line is already there, and would only need doubling/electrifying if the service usage demanded it.

I would also argue that some of these places would really benefit from just having another service (or two) per hour, so these new services wouldn't exactly be empty.

If someone were to start a service going that way, though, I would consider limited stops on the X City Line (eg Aston, Sutton Coldfield, Litchfield, Alrewas*), and then stopping at Barton Under Needwood*, Branston*, Burton, Stretton (north Burton)*, Sinfin (south Derby)*, Peartree and Derby. Maybe extend to Nottingham.

(* new stations)

Is this above the expected 6tph Cross City or as a part of it? As for not a lot needing doing. there is a big question over whether you leave Wichnor and Alrewas as they are with the single leads as you may end up rewriting the entire Cross City to Bromsgrove if you have that constraint as the fixed point to save money, and also the issues of Fine Lane and Roddidge level crossings which are manually operated via a crossing keeper. In terms of electrification, are the overbridges clear etc etc

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I would have thought that it's not just about those trips. You also have all points north/east of Burton: Derby, Nottingham, etc. Yes, you can go via Brum, but it's a long way round on a commute. You can also change at Tamworth, assuming XC have deigned to call there at the time.

As I said:

Lichfield/Sutton Coldfield to the north is really the only significant flow that this would help - and you can do that by changing at Tamworth or New Street anyway.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Instead of? I'd prefer not. Sutton Coldfield wouldn't benefit from those connections I mentioned above.

I would think that depends on what the Cross-City line timetable is like. For some reason that line still seems to be running the Covid timetable with 20 minute gaps in service and only 2tph to Lichfield. If - ideally, that line could be returned to the previous every-10-minutes timetable and also have every train run through to Lichfield, then good connections at Lichfield would be pretty much guaranteed, so it would become easy to travel between Sutton Coldfield and Burton (or Walsall) via Lichfield.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2024 ==

Limited stop won’t fit in the timetable without a lot of pathing time which extends the journey time.

That would certainly be true if the cross-city line was running the pre-Covid 10-minute frequency. But it seems an odd thing to say today when there are 20-minute gaps in the service. Looking at the current Mon-Fri daytime timetable, if a fast train left New Street for Lichfield/Burton at say 03 and 33 past the hour then it would be 17 minutes behind the previous stopper to Sutton Coldfield/Four Oaks, and 27 minutes behind the previous stopper to Lichfield. That seems to provide ample scope to run fast (once it was past Aston and out of the way of the Walsall service). (Having said all that, I think it would be more beneficial to increase the frequency of the stoppers rather than use those gaps for fast trains).

 

[Bald Rick]

That would certainly be true if the cross-city line was running the pre-Covid 10-minute frequency. But it seems an odd thing to say today when there are 20-minute gaps in the service. Looking at the current Mon-Fri daytime timetable, if a fast train left New Street for Lichfield/Burton at say 03 and 33 past the hour then it would be 17 minutes behind the previous stopper to Sutton Coldfield/Four Oaks, and 27 minutes behind the previous stopper to Lichfield. That seems to provide ample scope to run fast (once it was past Aston and out of the way of the Walsall service). (Having said all that, I think it would be more beneficial to increase the frequency of the stoppers rather than use those gaps for fast trains).

The timetable is more than just this line.

It cant leave New St at 03 as that is the Cross Country path on the Derby side

Neither can it leave at xx00 as that is the Walsall

Nor xx57 as that is the former Cross City path but now the Camp Hill path

With some tweaking it could, possibly, fit at xx54, but that would then be up behind the Four Oaks by Aston.


The only way to provide such a service (all day) would be to extend the existing Lichfield terminators.

 

[Russel]

I would think that depends on what the Cross-City line timetable is like. For some reason that line still seems to be running the Covid timetable with 20 minute gaps in service and only 2tph to Lichfield. If - ideally, that line could be returned to the previous every-10-minutes timetable and also have every train run through to Lichfield, then good connections at Lichfield would be pretty much guaranteed, so it would become easy to travel between Sutton Coldfield and Burton (or Walsall) via Lichfield.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2024 ==



That would certainly be true if the cross-city line was running the pre-Covid 10-minute frequency. But it seems an odd thing to say today when there are 20-minute gaps in the service. Looking at the current Mon-Fri daytime timetable, if a fast train left New Street for Lichfield/Burton at say 03 and 33 past the hour then it would be 17 minutes behind the previous stopper to Sutton Coldfield/Four Oaks, and 27 minutes behind the previous stopper to Lichfield. That seems to provide ample scope to run fast (once it was past Aston and out of the way of the Walsall service). (Having said all that, I think it would be more beneficial to increase the frequency of the stoppers rather than use those gaps for fast trains).

During the day time, the current 20 and 30 minute timetable is enough, I use it a lot and yes, some trains get quite busy, but I can't remember the last time I didn't get a seat.

 

[Sunil_P]

There is already a good half hourly bus service between Lichfield & Burton which takes 35-40 minutes from town centre to town centre with intermediate stops, so any rail service would have to compete with that.

It took us 11 minutes (or so) to do Lichfield TV to Burton on Saturday's diversionary XC service. Here is Alrewas level crossing in super-blurro-vision:

 

[Russel]

It took us 11 minutes (or so) to do Lichfield TV to Burton on Saturday's diversionary XC service. Here is Alrewas level crossing in super-blurro-vision:

Now add on 10 minutes walking time at either end to and from the train stations into the town centres and the journey time compared to the bus isn't too different.