South Bucks to Tottenham Hale

[7db]

My work has moved to the other side of London and so I am exploring commuting and terribly confused by ticketing, season tickets and all.

I have several options to leave from:
- Langley (Berks), Gerrards Cross or Moor Park (lift with wife to her office)

I commute 190ish days a year, I estimate. Mostly I clip morning peak as it is a good 90 mins from home and getting in at 11 is a bit late.

At the moment I just tap in on contactless credit card. Convenient. Pick any route and time... but I am wondering if a network rail card and/or a season ticket makes sense. The prices can be pretty high, so would be great to save a little.

At the moment I think I wouldn't use a season ticket as I don't guarantee to take enough identical enough journeys.

I thought the rail card would save money, but it looks like you get two singles rather than capping so not as obvious a saving.

What's more it looks like there is no way to tap in and out - I would have to buy a paper ticket each day I wanted to travel - Oyster only goes to West Drayton.

Am I missing something? What would you do?

Thanks for your help

 

[747292]

My work has moved to the other side of London and so I am exploring commuting and terribly confused by ticketing, season tickets and all.

I have several options to leave from:
- Langley (Berks), Gerrards Cross or Moor Park (lift with wife to her office)

I commute 190ish days a year, I estimate. Mostly I clip morning peak as it is a good 90 mins from home and getting in at 11 is a bit late.

At the moment I just tap in on contactless credit card. Convenient. Pick any route and time... but I am wondering if a network rail card and/or a season ticket makes sense. The prices can be pretty high, so would be great to save a little.

At the moment I think I wouldn't use a season ticket as I don't guarantee to take enough identical enough journeys.

I thought the rail card would save money, but it looks like you get two singles rather than capping so not as obvious a saving.

What's more it looks like there is no way to tap in and out - I would have to buy a paper ticket each day I wanted to travel - Oyster only goes to West Drayton.

Am I missing something? What would you do?

Thanks for your help

I would definitely recommend Moor Park to Tottenham Hale with a change at King’s Cross St Pancras as you could make the entire journey on Oyster PAYG. This will be WAY cheaper than from the other two stations. You can check ‘TfL single fare finder’ and compare your estimated number of journeys with the cost of a Zone 1-6 travelcard on ‘TfL Caps and Travelcard Prices’ (as Moor Park is within Zone 6 and Tottenham Hale is in Zone 3).

Also, buy a railcard and apply it to the Oyster at a TfL-managed station to save 1/3 off PAYG fares - note you CANNOT get this on contactless so you must obtain an Oyster card.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2024 ==

I would definitely recommend Moor Park to Tottenham Hale with a change at King’s Cross St Pancras as you could make the entire journey on Oyster PAYG. This will be WAY cheaper than from the other two stations. You can check ‘TfL single fare finder’ and compare your estimated number of journeys with the cost of a Zone 1-6 travelcard on ‘TfL Caps and Travelcard Prices’ (as Moor Park is within Zone 6 and Tottenham Hale is in Zone 3).

Also, buy a railcard and apply it to the Oyster at a TfL-managed station to save 1/3 off PAYG fares - note you CANNOT get this on contactless so you must obtain an Oyster card.

Also, check if you’re eligible for an Oyster card that entitles you to 1/3 off travelcard prices too if you do decide to buy a travelcard:

Free and discounted travel

You may be eligible for free and discounted travel with concessions or Zip Oyster cards

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Hadders]

I will try and do some detailed analysis later, although others will probably have some some suggestion before I get chance to do it

Also, buy a railcard and apply it to the Oyster at a TfL-managed station to save 1/3 off PAYG fares - note you CANNOT get this on contactless so you must obtain an Oyster card.

This will only works for Off Peak PAYG fares and unless the OP is under 30, over 60, or qualifies for a Disabled Persons railcard then this isn't going to be an option. A Network Railcard cannot be added to an Oyster card. There is a workaround if you have a cheap annual season ticket but detailed analysis is required to understand if this is an option.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

At the moment I think I wouldn't use a season ticket as I don't guarantee to take enough identical enough journeys.

If you had the Zones 1-6 season, could you use all routes with the add on of a ticket on the day from Gerrards Cross/Langley to the first station in the zone (or the other way round if heading home)?

Which is the quickest route?

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you use Contactless then there is weekly (Monday to Sunday) price capping as well as daily price capping.

In terms of cost, if you can regularly travel from Moor Park this will be the cheapest, as it is in the London zones. If occasionally you travel from Langley or Gerrards Cross this wouldn't distort things too much, the Contactless back office is clever enough to work out if a Z1-6 cap plus occasional Z6-Langley/Gerrards Cross singles is cheaper.

For comparison, the Langley to Zone1-6 price cap is £93.50 per week, the Z1-6 price cap (i.e. from Moor Park) is £78 per week.

The other (and possibly better) alternative would be a Z1-6 Travelcard, this is £78 for 7 days. For the days you don't travel from Moor Park then you could purchase paper tickets Boundary Zone 6 to/from Langley (£6 anytime day return) or Gerrards Cross (£11.40 anytime day return). You don't need to touch in and out with a Travelcard Oyster unless you are using the PAYG element, so you are free to take a non-stop train with a combination of paper BZ6 ticket and Oyster Travelcard. You can't use Oyster at Langley or Gerrards Cross.

 

[njr001]

I think you will find Langley to Moor Park then Tottenham Hale quite a long commute. Getting through Moor Park estate to the station can be slow particularly in term time, Met fast trains only in the peaks make off peak travel tediously slow.

 

[miklcct]

I think you will find Langley to Moor Park then Tottenham Hale quite a long commute. Getting through Moor Park estate to the station can be slow particularly in term time, Met fast trains only in the peaks make off peak travel tediously slow.

The cheapest way is to take the Metropolitan train from Moor Park to Finchley Road (if you are lucky enough to board a fast train, that's 3 stops only), change to the Overground to Highbury & Islington in order to avoid Zone 1, and onto Tottenham Hale from there. The fare is only £3.40 / £2.10. Using Oyster or contactless PAYG is the best on this route, no need for any season tickets.

It's difficult to avoid Zone 1 from the other two starting stations, and they are outside the London fare zones, so I don't recommend using them.

 

[Hadders]

Let's have a look at some detailed analysis. I'm going to confine this to fares, not to how long the journey takes. I'm assuming that you don't qualify for a railcard (ie you're over 30, under 60 and don't qualify for a Disabled Persons Railcard)

You can use contactless (but not Oyster) Langley and Gerrards Cross, or you can purchase traditional tickets.
From Gerrards Cross contactless goes live

Gerrards Cross
Anytime Day Return £30.80 (traditional ticket)
Contactless Peak £15.40 (touch in between 06:30-09:30 and 16:00-19:00)
Contactless Off Peak £12.50

Travelling peak in both directions costs £30.80
Peak one way and Off Peak the other is £27.90
Off Peak in both directions is £25.00

Langley
Anytime Day Return £23.60 (traditional ticket)
Contactless Peak £14.00 (touch in between 06:30-09:30 and 16:00-19:00)
Contactless Off Peak £9.40

Travelling peak in both directions costs £28.00
Peak one way and Off Peak the other is £23.40
Off Peak in both directions is £23.40

There are cheaper contactless fares if you avoid Zone 1 but I suspect this is too much of a time penalty to consider.
The contactless fares are poor value compared to the traditional Anytime Day Return

Moor Park
Anytime Day Return (Zone U1256 to Tottenham Hale) is £13.40 (traditional ticket)
Contactless Peak £5.60 (touch in between 06:30-09:30 and 16:00-19:00)
Contactless Off Peak £3.60

Travelling peak in both directions is £11.20
Peak one way and Off Peak the other is £9.20
Off Peak both ways is £7.20

Again, there are cheaper fares for avoiding Zone 1 which I have discounted.

Oyster is valid at Moor Park which opens up another possibility. If you purchase a Hatton to Lapworth Annual Season ticket which is the cheapest annual season ticket that qualifies for Gold Card status, you can add the Gold Card to an Oyster Card to obtain a discount on off peak fares. The Gold Card acts a 'souped-up' Network Railcard - unlike a Network Railcard you can add it to an Oyster Card, and there is no minimum discounted fare if buying traditional paper tickets. There are some other benefits as well which I won't go in to now. The Gold Card costs £204 per annum.

If you get the Gold Card discount added to your Oyster Card the fares from Moor Park become:

Peak £5.60 (touch in between 06:30-09:30 and 16:00-19:00)
Off Peak £2.35

Travelling in the peak in both directions costs £11.20
Peak one way and Off Peak the other costs £2.35
Off Peak both ways costs £4.70

If travelling home in the evening peak I would not use Oyster. I'd buy a Gold Card discounted Anytime Day Single (traditional paper ticket) from Tottenham Hale to Zone U1256 London which costs £4.40 (you can get Gold Card discounts on paper tickets in the evening peak, unlike the Network Railcard there is no minimum discounted fare with a Gold Card).

If outward and return travel is at peak times then I'd use Oyster for the outward journey and a Gold Card discounted paper ticket for the return. Total cost £10.00
If outward travel is at off peak and return at peak times then use Oyster for the outward journey and a Gold Card discounted paper ticket for the return. Total cost £6.75
If both outward and return travel is at off peak times then use Oyster both ways. Total cost £4.70

It's significantly cheaper to travel from Moor Park, especially if you can touch in before 06:30 and if you make use of the Gold Card. Although you've got to weigh this up against the increase in journey time. On the other hand I suspect the service to Moor Park is more frequent than to Gerrards Cross or Langley.

 

[miklcct]

A fast train from Moor Park needs 21 minutes to Finchley Road and 34 minutes to Kings Cross. There are 4 of them every hour in the morning peak, and another 2 semi-fast service which takes 5 minutes longer.

If you want to avoid Zone 1, the Overground journey is 16 minutes so it takes slightly longer than staying on the Met to Kings Cross.

A train from Langley needs 31 to 35 minutes to Bond Street. Get off at the front of the train for out of station interchange to Oxford Circus. So, on paper, it is no worse than a commute from Moor Park.

Gerrards Cross is really a bad place to start the commute because it takes you to Marylebone. It needs 24 to 31 minutes in peak hours but there are faster trains off-peak down to 21 minutes. From there it is two trains away from Tottenham Hale.

 

[30907]

The cheapest way is to take the Metropolitan train from Moor Park to Finchley Road (if you are lucky enough to board a fast train, that's 3 stops only), change to the Overground to Highbury & Islington in order to avoid Zone 1, and onto Tottenham Hale from there.

Just for completeness, the Overground station is Finchley Road and Frognal, which is a 5-6min straightforward walk from the Met station.

 

[7db]

Thank-you all for very generous sharing of knowledge. Particularly Hadders for the comprehensive analysis. I have a masters in mathematics but I'm going to have to sit down make myself another cup of tea, wrap a wet towel around my head and try to understand it all and ask a question or two.

Time doesn't matter between the routes -- it's already horrific so I have plenty of email, reading pods to entertain me. I slightly favour the air con and 5g on the Lizzie and Stansted Express. I can only go via Moor Park if my wife will drop me in the car when she goes to work (so I'm out of luck if wrong time or she's going elsewhere that day) - so realistically I need to go some of the other ways sometimes (if not all times).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2024 ==

I do not qualify for a railcard (and amazingly only heard of the Network Railcard about two weeks ago and the Gold Card even more recently)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2024 ==

Reading Hadders analysis now...I can only do morning and it's in morning peak from Moor Park (I can't get a lift home), so I don't think Network Rail / Gold Card gives me any savings on the Moor Park route as it's always peak am and back on something else.
Is there any Gold/Network rail benefit to the Langley Route? I'm just too far out to use Oyster (West Drayton last Oyster PAYG stop) but if I had Gold/Network would that make the journey cheaper on buying a non-PAYG ticket? Can that sort of ticket be loaded to a smartcard or is it purely paper/barcode (which is a pain to collect and when changing)>

 

[Hadders]

If going from Moor Park the Metropolitan Line has air con. The Victoria Line from Kings Cross St Pancras is a sweatbox but that would only be for about 10 minutes to Tottenham Hale. Alternatively you could stay on to Liverpool Street and pick up a Greater Anglia train but this is slower.

If you travel out from Moor Park but return to Langley then a Peak PAYG fare from Moor Park would cost £5.60
Travelling back to Langley would cost either £14.00 Peak or £9.40 Off Peak so either £19.60 or £15.00 if you can touch in at Tottenham Hale at an Off Peak time

A Network Railcard or Gold Card doesn't really help, except for one exception:

If the return journey from Tottenham Hale to Langley is going to be at peak time then a Gold Card discounted paper ticket from Zone U123 London to Langley is £9.15, which is a saving of £4.85 over the peak contactless fare. But it would cost £204 to buy the Gold Card (a Network Railcard doesn't work because there is a £13 minimum discounted fare on weekdays). So travelling out from Moor Park in the morning Peak would cost £5.60, travelling back to Langley at Peak times would cost £9.15. Total £14.75

 

[redreni]

If going from Moor Park the Metropolitan Line has air con. The Victoria Line from Kings Cross St Pancras is a sweatbox but that would only be for about 10 minutes to Tottenham Hale. Alternatively you could stay on to Liverpool Street and pick up a Greater Anglia train but this is slower.

If you travel out from Moor Park but return to Langley then a Peak PAYG fare from Moor Park would cost £5.60
Travelling back to Langley would cost either £14.00 Peak or £9.40 Off Peak so either £19.60 or £15.00 if you can touch in at Tottenham Hale at an Off Peak time

A Network Railcard or Gold Card doesn't really help, except for one exception:

If the return journey from Tottenham Hale to Langley is going to be at peak time then a Gold Card discounted paper ticket from Zone U123 London to Langley is £9.15, which is a saving of £4.85 over the peak contactless fare. But it would cost £204 to buy the Gold Card (a Network Railcard doesn't work because there is a £13 minimum discounted fare on weekdays). So travelling out from Moor Park in the morning Peak would cost £5.60, travelling back to Langley at Peak times would cost £9.15. Total £14.75

£204 / £4.85 is 42 and a bit, so for somebody commuting 190 days a year a saving of £4.85 a day is going to outweigh the cost of the season ticket by over £700.

Sometimes taking the Tottenham Hale to Gerrards Cross route in the evening peak wouldn't be a problem either: Contactless Peak fare is £15.40 and Anytime Single U123 to Gerrards Cross with Annual Gold Card is £10.70 - a saving of £4.70.

 

[7db]

Amazing. Thank you once again.

Assume with the Gold Card there's also a saving to be had if I do offpeak in from Langley and on off-peak Oyster journeys outside of commuting if I load to my Oyster? You mentioned other benefits - what are those? I am giddy. Is that buying discounted rail tickets when travelling with others?

Is there any way to put the Langley/Tottenham journey on any sort of smart card or is it always going to the machine and buying a paper ticket? Online purchase amd load to smartcard?

How does one actually buy the Gold Card? I have a Chiltern card and an Oyster. (And where are Hatton and Lapworth?)

 

[redreni]

Hatton and Lapworth are stops on the Chiltern line just south of Dorridge. Lapworth has quite a picturesque canal junction not far from the station and has a couple of National Trust sites within walking distance, but it is pretty much out in the sticks.

I was just thinking about the question of where you would buy the single tickets for your return journeys to Langley or Gerrards Cross. It's probably fair to say the tickets from Zones U123 are a bit less widely available - I don't think you'd get them on a Smartcard (though happy to be corrected) and I wasn't sure if you'd be able to get them from the TVMs at Tottenham Hale. There is a small price difference between the U123 to Langley fare and the Tottenham Hale to Langley fare.

Come to think of it, while I'm confident the U123 to Langley fare is valid on a route such as

• Victoria Line to Green Park;
• Jubilee Line to Bond Street;
• Elizabeth Line to Langley

I'm less certain it is valid to go

• National Rail to Liverpool Street
• Elizabeth Line to Langley?

Unless there's some LU/NR interavailability that I don't know about, I'm not sure it's valid for the leg into Liverpool Street, is it?

I don't think the route using London Underground to get to the Elizabeth Line is any slower, mind. In fact it's probably faster, despite the extra change (the single change at Liverpool Street involves rather a lengthy walk).

I'm sure you'd quickly work out the best place to buy these tickets. For the first few times you do it I'd suggest buying online from a retailer that sells tickets from London U123 (for example the forum's site - put 'London Underground and DLR Zones 1-3' in the 'from' box) and collecting from a National Rail TVM. Then once you've found a convenient TVM or ticket office that will sell you the ticket without you having to queue or pre-order it online, start doing that. The London Underground ticket machines at Tottenham Hale might well sell it, I'm not sure. I'm sure you'll quickly settle on the most efficient way to do it!

The one nice thing about the fact very few commuters buy tickets from the TVMs these days is, if you do need to do so, you'll be one of the only people doing it so there's unlikely to be a queue.

 

[Hadders]

Oyster isn't valid at Langley - it's contactless only.

I don't think there's a way of putting a Langley to Tottenham Hale onto a smartcard. The easiest way is probably to buy from a ticket machine, especially if you're unsure whether or not you could start your return journey before 16:00 (use contactless) or later (when you'd use a paper ticket with Gold Card discount).

As for the Gold Card benefits see here:

Annual Gold Card | National Rail

Get great discounts on your leisure travel in the south of England with an Annual Gold Card

www.nationalrail.co.uk

To summarise:
- Third off fares when travelling after 09:30 on weekdays and anytime at weekends and Bank Holidays throughout the Gold Card area (which is larger than the Network Railcard area)
- Discount available for you and up to 3 additional adults and 4 children travelling with you
- Discount available on First Class fares but not Advance fares (in any class)
- You can buy a discounted railcard for yourself or a friend for £10
- You can add the Gold Card discount to an Oyster PAYG card for discounted Off Peak fares and discounted Off Peak Daily Caps

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2024 ==

Unless there's some LU/NR interavailability that I don't know about, I'm not sure it's valid for the leg into Liverpool Street, is it?

This is the internal guidance on inter-availability.

LU/DLR tickets valid on National Rail services​

LU and DLR single & return paper tickets (including National Rail issued U-zone tickets), for which the appropriate zonal fare has been paid, are also valid on National Rail services between the following stations:

• Abbey Wood and Paddington (Elizabeth line)
• Amersham and Marylebone
• Finsbury Park and Kings Cross/Moorgate
• Harrow & Wealdstone and Queens Park
• Richmond and Gunnersbury
• Seven Sisters / Tottenham Hale / Walthamstow Central, and Liverpool Street
• Stratford and Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale
• Stratford and Liverpool Street
• Upminster and Fenchurch Street / Liverpool Street but not at Forest Gate or Maryland.
• West Ruislip and South Ruislip
• West Hampstead Thameslink and Elephant & Castle / London Bridge

Langley to Zone U123 London is essentially a Langley to London Terminals (ie Paddington) ticket with an Underground-on to any Underground satation in Zones 1,2 or 3. National Rail ticketing applies west of Paddington so you're using the Langley to London Terminals bit west of Paddington then the U Zone add-on from Paddington to Tottenham Hale.

 

[redreni]

This is the internal guidance on inter-availability.

Langley to Zone U123 London is essentially a Langley to London Terminals (ie Paddington) ticket with an Underground-on to any Underground satation in Zones 1,2 or 3. National Rail ticketing applies west of Paddington so you're using the Langley to London Terminals bit west of Paddington then the U Zone add-on from Paddington to Tottenham Hale.

Good to know, thanks!

 

[7db]

Amazing, thank-you. Have signed up to LNER (10% Amex offer) and ordered a smartcard. Will get photocard on next commute. Assume I need to carry both with me when using the gold discount on papercard (and even if loaded to Oyster for off-peak incidental travel?).

Not sure I fully understand why I wouldn't always use gold+papercard as it seems cheaper peak and off-peak (if only a little bit). Hadders' excellent analysis suggests I would not use it off-peak?

Amazed by the U123-LNY being significantly cheaper than TOM-LNY. Seems unfair somehow if they are functionally identical? Astounded that LNER, Chiltern and Trainline apps do not offer LNY - U123 as an option to buy a ticket. Seems I will be buying exclusively from this site...

My normal route would be Tottenham - Oxford Circus. Walk to Bond St Lizzie and to Langley.

Can I do that sort of break on the U123 paper ticket? Indeed can I sup a half and have some dinner on Regent Street and then continue my journey?

 

[redreni]

Can I do that sort of break on the U123 paper ticket? Indeed can I sup a half and have some dinner on Regent Street and then continue my journey?

Yes, because you're making one continuous journey and it's a recognised Out of Station Interchange. If using Oyster there's a maximum interchange time of 20 minutes, which if exceeded you'd be charged for two separate journeys, but the maximum interchange time doesn't apply when using a paper ticket.

Whether gateline staff know that and are prepared to let you in at Bond Street is another matter - personally unless I had business to attend to on Oxford Street I would probably avoid the possibility of issues by not exiting the system - either interchange at Oxford Circus and Bond Street or Green Park and Bond Street.

Oh, and I would strongly suggest reading this thread before buying from LNER. You'll want to be satisfied that the delay in issuing the Gold Record Card (during which time you can't benefit from the Gold Card discounts) will not outweigh the 10% cashback saving. You may want to consider going to Kings Cross to see if you can buy the season ticket and get the Gold Record card issued on the spot at the LNER ticket office.

 

[Hadders]

Amazing, thank-you. Have signed up to LNER (10% Amex offer) and ordered a smartcard. Will get photocard on next commute. Assume I need to carry both with me when using the gold discount on papercard (and even if loaded to Oyster for off-peak incidental travel?).

If you want to take advantage of the AMEX 10% cash back then buy the Gold Card at Kings Cross ticket office. They will issue you with the Gold Record card there and then.
You can purchase the seaosn ticket online through LNER but we've had reports of them not sending out the Gold Record Card until several weeks later.

You'll need to carry the photocard, smartcard that actually holds the season ticket and the Gold Record card when you travel.

Not sure I fully understand why I wouldn't always use gold+papercard as it seems cheaper peak and off-peak (if only a little bit). Hadders' excellent analysis suggests I would not use it off-peak?

On checking it again Zone U123 London to Langley with a Gold Card discount is £9.15
Tottenham Hale to Langley Off Peak using contactless is £9.40

So you're better off using the paper ticket.

Amazed by the U123-LNY being significantly cheaper than TOM-LNY. Seems unfair somehow if they are functionally identical? Astounded that LNER, Chiltern and Trainline apps do not offer LNY - U123 as an option to buy a ticket. Seems I will be buying exclusively from this site...

It's probably something historical going back to the days before the Victoria Line served Tottenham Hale.

My normal route would be Tottenham - Oxford Circus. Walk to Bond St Lizzie and to Langley.

Can I do that sort of break on the U123 paper ticket? Indeed can I sup a half and have some dinner on Regent Street and then continue my journey?

There's an Out of Station Interchange for contactless between Bond Street and Oxford Circus which was introduced when the Elizabeth Line opened to enable interchange between the Victoria Line and Elizabeth Lines. The interchange time is 20 minutes.

The situation with paper tickets is less clear. TfL call paper tickets magnetic tickets and their list of out of station interchanges for magnetic tickets is more restrictive and Bond Street to Oxford Circus isn't on it. Before the Elizabeth Line was opened this interchange wouldn't have been needed but it really should be on the list now - it might be worth asking TfL if they will add it. It's certainly reasonable as there should be an interchange available to magnetic ticket holders between the Elizabeth Line and Victoria Lines.

Out-of-station interchanges

Full list of Out-of-Station Interchanges and the maximum times allowed

tfl.gov.uk

I can't say whether or not the ticket will work the barriers to enter the Elizabeth Line at Bond Street. I'd use the Hanover Square entrance (which is closest to Oxford Circus anyway) rather than the traditional tube ticket hall, the chances are the staff will probably let you through anyway but if you find that the ticket doesn't work then consider taking the Central Line from Oxford Circus to Bond Street. There probably won't be much time in it compared to the walk between Oxford Circus and Bond Street.

 

[Watershed]

I'm less certain it is valid to go

• National Rail to Liverpool Street
• Elizabeth Line to Langley?

Unless there's some LU/NR interavailability that I don't know about, I'm not sure it's valid for the leg into Liverpool Street, is it?

There is, and (AFAIK) always has been, interavailability between LU and NR for tickets issued between Tottenham Hale and Underground Zone 1. Tottenham Hale is also a recognised cross-London transfer station, again due to the Victoria line.

 

[Taunton]

A fast train from Moor Park needs 21 minutes to Finchley Road and 34 minutes to Kings Cross. There are 4 of them every hour in the morning peak, and another 2 semi-fast service which takes 5 minutes longer.

What are the chances of getting a seat by Moor Park on these fast trains which have come through from Amersham?

 

[njr001]

Not great seat availability people are creatures of habit and certain cars are busier than others usually not so busy that you can’t walk through and find a seat, some days are however less busy than others.

 

[redreni]

Not great seat availability people are creatures of habit and certain cars are busier than others usually not so busy that you can’t walk through and find a seat, some days are however less busy than others.

Matches my experience of post-pandemic commuting. Difficult to predict. Some days one has to check one hasn't forgotten it's a bank holiday.

 

[miklcct]

What are the chances of getting a seat by Moor Park on these fast trains which have come through from Amersham?

I haven't taken such train in the morning, but I can tell you that it's rare to have a seat in the evening commute back on the fast train to Amersham / Chesham (or indeed any Metropolitan line train which runs through from the City).

21 minutes isn't a long time to stand for though, just barely exceeding the standard (20 minutes) for which standing space is counted into the train loading statistics.

 

[7db]

What are the chances of getting a seat by Moor Park on these fast trains which have come through from Amersham?

I've had a seat every day I've tried this. 0800ish trains.

 

[7db]

A quick note of thanks to advice from this thread.

I went today to KX and felt like some kind of ninja monk as I ordered my Lapworth Season ticket with an Amex discount in person (knowing nod to the counter staff who I expected to recognise a fellow traveller with the season ticket d'or but he completely didn't know where Hatton was and had to ask me to spell it) and went upstairs to add my goldcard to my Oyster. And then sliding into Tottenham Hale station ("oh it's you again asking about the L123-LNY ticket instead of the TOM-LNY ticket") and getting my ride home. Frankly today's entertainment was worth 180 quid of anyone's money - the 4 quid saved on the journey home was a bonus.

I still have no idea how to calculate whether an anytime day return is cheaper than a single plus gold card single, and the reluctance of anyone other than my friendly Tottenham kiosk crew to sell me a ticket baffles me but despite my great unease at the sheer complexity of this system, I'm happy so thanks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Sep 2024 ==

One potential downside appears to be that the barriers at Liverpool St don't accept the paper ticket...but will see how that works.

 

[redreni]

A single contactless PAYG journey from Langley to Tottenham Hale in the morning peak is £14. The Gold Card-discounted single for the return journey in the evening peak is £9.25, as you know.

The Anytime Day Return Langley to U123 is £27.10.

So the single plus a Gold Card single is cheaper even on days when you're taking the same route in the morning and in the evening.

I presume it's the National Rail gateline that doesn't open with the U123 to Langley ticket? Could become annoying, but as long as the staff know about the inter-availability (which I'm sure they do) then it should be fine. You may even get to the stage where they know you and just wave you through!

 

[Hadders]

Good that you managed to get the Gold Card and get the Oyster discount added without any hassle. Was the season ticket issued on a LNER smartcard?

As for the barriers at Liverpool Street it might be something as simple as them routinely rejecting railcard discounted tickets. My local station does this supposedly so that the staff can check you have a valid railcard. Thing is so many tickets get rejected that you just end up being waved through without the railcard being checked.

 

[7db]

A single contactless PAYG journey from Langley to Tottenham Hale in the morning peak is £14. The Gold Card-discounted single for the return journey in the evening peak is £9.25, as you know.

The Anytime Day Return Langley to U123 is £27.10.

So the single plus a Gold Card single is cheaper even on days when you're taking the same route in the morning and in the evening.

Agree on peak day return. No benefit there. Two paper singles is best (13.90 vs 14.00 for paper vs contactless on the peak outbound, easy win for Gold paper on return).
I think an off peak return might be worth it if I can go after 0930 (I have a certain amount of work flexibility).
2 x Contactless = 18.80 (can't figure out cap assume above this, second contactless might be TFL peak hours so perhaps 23.40?)
2 x Gold Anytime Singles = 18.50
1 x Gold Offpeak Return = 13.30
Seems a significant saving.

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Good that you managed to get the Gold Card and get the Oyster discount added without any hassle. Was the season ticket issued on a LNER smartcard?

As for the barriers at Liverpool Street it might be something as simple as them routinely rejecting railcard discounted tickets. My local station does this supposedly so that the staff can check you have a valid railcard. Thing is so many tickets get rejected that you just end up being waved through without the railcard being checked.

Yes -- season ticket on my brand new shiny LNER smartcard. I expect never to use it except to prove the Gold Card.
Lady on the gateline was delightful and checked nothing. Probably annoyed the three people behind me as I tried to get through the automated gate several times before going to see her. Their unlucky day, I guess.
I suppose checking the railcard validity is a fair revenue strategy but given the number of people I see tailgating and barging the gates at Tottenham Hale on a daily basis, I can't help thinking there's lower-hanging fruit than people with the wrong ticket...
Have not yet tried changing / breaking at Oxford Circus.

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I bought a ticket using this site's ticket page. Left work so late it was off-peak but still 10p cheaper so thought would experiment.

The checkout concerned me showing Paddington to Langley as my purchase but I think that was just the itinerary - the ticket printed as LU123-LNY. Other feedback is that would be nice to buy again easily.

Collection is a bit of a pfaff with an 8 digit code to type. Assume that is a necessary evil with online sales. Would be nice if the TVM sold the cheap fare.