UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety concerns

[ainsworth74]

I don’t think Hendy can reasonably be criticised for wanting to protect his organisation’s reputation in his capacity of head of NR.

He's done a pretty terrible job of that! The reputational damage done by sending the letter far outweighs any done by the quote Dennis gave to the Indy (and I'm not convinced that any actual reputational damage was caused by that)!

 

[James H]

I wonder if this 2022 tweet had come to Hendy's attention and got up his nose? Might go some way to explain why he reacted so strongly to GD's very mild comments about Euston.

https://x.com/GarethDennis/status/1553293375281004544

Oh crumbs - this could not be (a) more wrong and (b) more misjudged from SPH. How incredibly disappointing to read this from a former busman and someone with which I agree on quite a bit.

It's so sad to see Haines and Hendy become yes-men for this dismal government and its intention to shrink the rail industry and demolish workers rights in the process.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I wonder if this 2022 tweet had come to Hendy's attention and got up his nose? Might go some way to explain why he reacted so strongly to GD's very mild comments about Euston.

https://x.com/GarethDennis/status/1553293375281004544

To be fair if you want to play "find a tweet that could cause an issue" you'd find plenty with him. He is outspoken and opinionated, but has been for a long time and Systra knew that when they hired him - again to make a point of saying this - they have boasted about specitically that on their own website! If they were just going to capitulate and sack him at the first sign of any issue then they probably shouldn't have hired him to begin with!

 

[Wolfie]

He's done a pretty terrible job of that! The reputational damage done by sending the letter far outweighs any done by the quote Dennis gave to the Indy (and I'm not convinced that any actual reputational damage was caused by that)!

Hendy's own reputation has suffered even more. He comes over as an arrogant pompous control freak with zero idea about propriety. Given the recent outcry about standards in public life his behaviour means that he is unfit for public office.

 

[87electric]

The thought police are out for Dennis. How dare he raise concerns about the Euston issue and think out loud in print.
If the Euston Overcrowding discussion thread gets closed down, I claim a conspiracy is afoot.

 

[43096]

Hendy's own reputation has suffered even more.

That’s only because Dennis’s reputation was already at zero.

Given the recent outcry about standards in public life his behaviour means that he is unfit for public office.

Hyperbole.

 

[Starmill]

I don’t think Hendy can reasonably be criticised for wanting to protect his organisation’s reputation in his capacity of head of NR.

Of course. Nobody has been making that criticism though, have they?

The criticism is that he abused his office by threatening to withhold public money - i.e. your and my and everyone else's money, for personal gains to himself.

 

[Goldfish62]

GD’s engineering career won’t be finished by this but I suspect that subsequent employers might not entertain his parallel universe.

Who's going to employ him? He's a loose cannon.

 

[Starmill]

Hendy's own reputation has suffered even more. He comes over as an arrogant pompous control freak with zero idea about propriety. Given the recent outcry about standards in public life his behaviour means that he is unfit for public office.

Indeed.

Many of us have spent the last fifteen years criticising Conservative Parliamentarians for absuing conflicts of interest in their role in Parliament or Government, or giving the appearance of abuse. If, now, we see exactly the same behaviour from a Labour Parliamentarian and we don't criticise it then clearly that'd make us hypocrites.

 

[jfowkes]

Who's going to employ him? He's a loose cannon.

Hardly. He has platforms on which he offers his fairly mild opinions about the rail industry, such as "level boarding is good", "electrification is good" and "Euston shouldn't be so crowded". He wants the rail industry to be better and do better, as I would hope all of us do. This is hardly cause to fire someone.

 

[Wolfie]

Indeed.

Many of us have spent the last fifteen years criticising Conservative Parliamentarians for absuing conflicts of interest in their role in Parliament or Government, or giving the appearance of abuse. If, now, we see exactly the same behaviour from a Labour Parliamentarian and we don't criticise it then clearly that'd make us hypocrites.

Exactly where l am at.

 

[JamesT]

Of course. Nobody has been making that criticism though, have they?

The criticism is that he abused his office by threatening to withhold public money - i.e. your and my and everyone else's money, for personal gains to himself.

In what way was Hendy going to personally gain from Dennis being sacked?

 

[Sealink]

Was this about engineering or passengers? (Playing catch up here.)
I recall this thread about dangerous boarding procedures at Euston.

Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

Whilst waiting for my train, the 16:46 from Euston to Crewe, passengers were told not to wait around the platform entrances and were to told to wait in the concourse, by the third party security officers. At around 16:40, the platform was announced and hurds of people immediately started...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

Hardly. He has platforms on which he offers his fairly mild opinions about the rail industry, such as "level boarding is good", "electrification is good" and "Euston shouldn't be so crowded". He wants the rail industry to be better and do better, as I would hope all of us do. This is hardly cause to fire someone.

I was talking about future employment. He's shown that he's more than happy to share his opinions in public and throws a complete hissy fit when caught out. Stuff like editing Hendy's wiki entry before the tribunal is a measure of his character. If he'd kept quiet and handled this matter in an adult manner it may have been a different matter.

As regards what he actually said to the press, yes totally agree (notwithstanding that is the ORR have stated that NR addressed issues to their satisfaction before Davis decided to go to the press).

However, I don't see anywhere where Hendy said he should be sacked. He called for disciplinary action. "Disciplinary action" can be as little as a formal written warning. Clearly Systra had their own reasons to conclude that Davis was guilty of gross misconduct, so I suspect there was a lot more going on than Davis is admitting to. It'll all come out at the employment tribunal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

Exactly where l am at.

Except Hendy was not in parliament then.

 

[James H]

Except Hendy was not in parliament then.

He was in Parliament as a cross-bench peer, but was not at that point a member of the Government. (But rather was the chair of a state-owned body.)

 

[yorkie]

Hardly. He has platforms on which he offers his fairly mild opinions about the rail industry, such as "level boarding is good", "electrification is good" and "Euston shouldn't be so crowded". He wants the rail industry to be better and do better, as I would hope all of us do. This is hardly cause to fire someone.

Really? I would not describe his opinions as "mild"! He is well known for having some more extreme views, and being militant/combative.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

Agreed. Several people I speak to have noted that as well. When he started doing his Youtube stuff, his style was tolerable, but as he's become more popular he does seem to have become more arrogant and belligerent. Shame really. Other railway podcasters e.g. Green Signals seem to generally strike the balance between having the expertise and being a little bit humble with it.

I completely agree.

What Dennis did wouldn't be covered under any form of whistleblowing policy.

Indeed; whistleblowing has nothing to do with this and anyone who thinks it does has completely misunderstood this matter.

I watch Gareth's livestreams and despite agreeing with a lot of what he says; he has a way of being rather annoying about it and he seems to have a bit of a large ego. I'm not surprised it was him that got into a dispute like this.

Again, I agree and yes it's no surprise.

To be fair if you want to play "find a tweet that could cause an issue" you'd find plenty with him. He is outspoken and opinionated...

Agreed....

but has been for a long time and Systra knew that when they hired him - again to make a point of saying this - they have boasted about specitically that on their own website! If they were just going to capitulate and sack him at the first sign of any issue then

...however that doesn't mean he has carte blanche to say anything he likes!

they probably shouldn't have hired him to begin with!

I agree with that, and the company no doubt now realises their mistake, with hindsight.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Hendy's own reputation has suffered even more. He comes over as an arrogant pompous control freak with zero idea about propriety

He’s always had that reputation. He was like that at First Bus and he was definitely like that at TfL.

Just another one in the industry who fails upwards.

 

[SussexSeagull]

I think Gareth Dennis speaks a lot of sense on Rail Matters (slight pun on his YouTube channel) and I used to contribute to his Patreon before he annoyed me by commenting on non rail issues and I stopped. For what it's worth he is correct about Euston.

However, he seemingly gave an unauthorised interview to the press. Like it or hate it this is a disciplinary matter.

He can't be an on-line critic of the rail industry and expect it to pay his mortgage. That might not be fair but it is how the real world works.

 

[Horizon22]

I don't see Dennis being the kind of person to accept constraints on what he can do. To be honest this seems like a case of two massive egos clashing given Dennis reaction since the news broke e.g. releasing merchandise about the incident. I still think a sacking was extreme but, given Dennis' personality, it doesn't surprise me that it got to that situation.

No neither. But yeah that's partly why its gone this far. All a bit of a mess for everyone involved (although Dennis probably comes off best!)

 

[Wolfie]

He was in Parliament as a cross-bench peer, but was not at that point a member of the Government. (But rather was the chair of a state-owned body.)

True but such behaviour shows him to be unfit to be appointed as a Government minister.

 

[Horizon22]

True but such behaviour shows him to be unfit to be appointed as a Government minister.

I think you'd be surprised what several senior MPs (of all parties, with some digging!) have done in the past - there would be a lot of people "unfit to be appointed" on these standards!

 

[Wolfie]

I think you'd be surprised what several senior MPs (of all parties, with some digging!) have done in the past - there would be a lot of people "unfit to be appointed" on these standards!

Having spent my whole working career in the "national security" space l bet that l wouldn't...

 

[Horizon22]

Having spent my whole working career in the "national security" space l bet that l wouldn't...

Fair enough! Maybe we've just had our standards lowered by recent (and seemingly unending) Tory scandals. There's obvious a large scale to these things from "highly illegal" to "I would have advised against that".

 

[James H]

However, he seemingly gave an unauthorised interview to the press. Like it or hate it this is a disciplinary matter.

It is not clear that this was the case. GD has said that Systra had agreed he was able to do his industry commentator stuff.

The problem only arose when Hendy explicitly threatened Systra's eligbility for future NR work. That was a very foolish thing to do.

(And I'm generally sympathetic to Hendy and was pleased he was appointed to the DfT)

 

[noddingdonkey]

The not particularly veiled threat in the letter seems to be unwise to me. Contracts of the kind of size I assume this is have to go to tender and who gets appointed has to be transparent and process driven.

Threatening to subvert that process out of spite seems like it should be career ending for a minister

 

[WelshBluebird]

However, I don't see anywhere where Hendy said he should be sacked. He called for disciplinary action. "Disciplinary action" can be as little as a formal written warning. Clearly Systra had their own reasons to conclude that Davis was guilty of gross misconduct, so I suspect there was a lot more going on than Davis is admitting to.

I mean of course the letter doesn't specifically state he should be sacked, but you have to be pretty naive to not read between the lines! Plus maybe have a look at some of the internal emails that have come out as part of the FOI request too. Very much words that suggest he should be sacked.

It'll all come out at the employment tribunal.

Unless I have missed something, there isn't going to be a tribunal. He was working there for less than 2 years so can be sacked for pretty much any reason without being able to claim unfair dismissal. There are a limited number of narrowly defined reasons which would mean he could claim it, but from his comments yesterday it didn't sound like the situation slotted into any of them.

 

[RJ]

My prediction is this will all blow over.

Business have free will over who they will, or won't transact with. Businesses don't have to work with suppliers whose representatives criticise them in the media. It doesn't matter whether or not the criticism is correct or backed up, why does it have to be that specific person that comes out with it in that manner? There are appropriate ways to formally raise safety concerns.

I worked on the concourse at Euston for a period and it never crossed my mind to run to the media to talk about it. Doing that sort of thing seems like asking for trouble even for a front liner, let alone someone in a senior position who other senior people will take notice of - there are other ways to raise safety concerns.

As for rehashing old stories about Peter Hendy's personal life, it's all been heard before and nobody really cares.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Balancing your professional and personal positions is sometimes difficult. For me, I’ve had to add in a third dimension, my political life and you have to establish boundaries, which you do not cross. When you start to blur those lines, it can become difficult for those around you, as well as yourself.

The higher up in an organisation you go, the more aware you become of the egos and sharp elbows of those at the top. People in power rarely get there because they are “nice” people. You may be flavour of the month one day and gone the next. It’s one of the reasons I’m still in a union, even at my effective grade!

I really haven’t followed Gareth’s career that much but I have, as an M&EE man of several years experience, found some of his comments odd and was tempted to engage but got warned off it by colleagues who had tried and found that he wasn’t receptive to critical discussion. Some of those colleagues found that the conversation became abusive in tone and some also found themselves barred for expressing an opinion which didn’t suit his preferred narrative.

I actually find it incredible that as Head of Track for a NR contractor, he was allowed to opine on NR matters in the manner he has. He has justified it by saying that as an engineer he had a higher duty than to his employment, which I find bizarre and self-serving. You speak to a mainstream journalist, slag off your client and expect no reaction? Really?

He has seen a market in commenting on rail and gone for it. With so many commentators now becoming long in the tooth or going stale, I don’t blame him but you have to balance your professional life with your wish to comment and if you want to be primarily a campaigning journo, with hot takes on all things rail, you may have to do that full time.

When you play with the big boys, you play by their rules and if you have a senior role in the industry and they don’t like you, you’re gone. That’s why you establish those boundaries between the various parts of your life and you stick to them. You don’t have to be silent but you have to be careful.

I have seen those kind of letters before so it isn’t anything odd that Hendy has done but it has been done with the usual NR heavy handiness that we have all come to expect from that organisation. I suspect there was some interesting discussions at the top levels within Systra on receipt of the letter as to how this situation was ever allowed to occur!

 

[Starmill]

In what way was Hendy going to personally gain from Dennis being sacked?

By silencing a voice he disliked for personal reasons, and making himself seem like a better leader.

 

[AlterEgo]

But surely there's a difference in just confidently stating something is unsafe because you believe that to be true, and evidencing that statement based on specific expertise and facts.

Unfortunately Gareth's whole thing is stating what he believes with utmost confidence as if it is gospel and he must know best.

My point isn't to debate if Euston is or isn't safe. I just think there's definitely an angle here of Gareth being the boy who cried wolf (not always about safety) and finally got caught out.

Undoubtedly he bit off more than he could chew and has a reputation for speaking on topics outside of his expertise. But Hendy’s conduct is naive and unethical and Hendy ought to be held to a higher standard than Dennis.

What Dennis did wouldn't be covered under any form of whistleblowing policy.

Indeed. He was reiterating publicly available information, not a privileged matter.