ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

[Cletus]

Does this mean a "normal" service won't be reinstated any time soon?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Does this mean a "normal" service won't be reinstated any time soon?

At the moment they are short of resources to deliver a reliable service without o/t or RDW the pay rise won't help that although presumably if the offer is accepted accepted ASLEF will remove ASOS so may increase volunteers but I doubt all services will get reinstated now and this timetable will be the new norm until more resources come out of training.

 

[scotraildriver]

The temporary timetable is now is place until at least the 15th September, when the ballot is completed. Assuming the offer is accepted which it almost certainly will be the timetable may revert to "normal" but still relies on vast amounts of voluntary overtime to maintain. Bearing in mind there hasn't been any official industrial actual it still leaves the service vulnerable if people take their days off like most people in other industries do. The only solution is to recruit enough staff.

 

[John Bishop]

The temporary timetable is now is place until at least the 15th September, when the ballot is completed. Assuming the offer is accepted which it almost certainly will be the timetable may revert to "normal" but still relies on vast amounts of voluntary overtime to maintain. Bearing in mind there hasn't been any official industrial actual it still leaves the service vulnerable if people take their days off like most people in other industries do. The only solution is to recruit enough staff.

The ballot closes on 25th September, so timetable will be in place until (at the very earliest) a week after that, but well after that in all likelihood.

 

[Cletus]

The temporary timetable is now is place until at least the 15th September, when the ballot is completed. Assuming the offer is accepted which it almost certainly will be the timetable may revert to "normal" but still relies on vast amounts of voluntary overtime to maintain. Bearing in mind there hasn't been any official industrial actual it still leaves the service vulnerable if people take their days off like most people in other industries do. The only solution is to recruit enough staff.

That's a shame as I'm in Scotland from the 8th to the 16th. Included was a day doing Inverness-Kyle-Mallaig-Glasgow that is impossible under the current timetable.

 

[GordonT]

The ballot closes on 25th September, so timetable will be in place until (at the very earliest) a week after that, but well after that in all likelihood.

In which case maybe any change will await the "national" timetable changes on Sunday 15th December?

 

[chuff chuff]

They may not go back to the original timetable but they will have to get some more services back early and late.

 

[InvHst]

From tomorrow the following returns Monday to Saturday permanently no longer as and when they can cover
1041 Inverness - Wick
1600 Wick - Inverness

1335 Inverness - Kyle
1713 Kyle - Inverness

 

[Scotrail84]

In which case maybe any change will await the "national" timetable changes on Sunday 15th December?

A total waste of crews sitting about doing nothing if they don't go back to the original timetable until December.

 

[snookertam]

A total waste of crews sitting about doing nothing if they don't go back to the original timetable until December.

Hang on I thought spare crews were a good thing?

 

[380101]

At the moment they are short of resources to deliver a reliable service without o/t or RDW the pay rise won't help that although presumably if the offer is accepted accepted ASLEF will remove ASOS so may increase volunteers but I doubt all services will get reinstated now and this timetable will be the new norm until more resources come out of training.

ASLEF won't need to lift anything because, as has been repeatedly stated on this thread and on other social media platforms, there currently isn't any ASLEF industrial action taking place within ScotRail.

The ballot closes on 25th September, so timetable will be in place until (at the very earliest) a week after that, but well after that in all likelihood.

I predict that by the end of the week coming there will be a substantial increase in drivers available for rest day working, and that services will be increased.

 

[Scotrail84]

Hang on I thought spare crews were a good thing?

It is but theres an abundance of them with a reduced service.

 

[Number5]

I predict that by the end of the week coming there will be a substantial increase in drivers available for rest day working, and that services will be increased.

Would that not be at the end of the ballot and the result confirmed rather than next week?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

ASLEF won't need to lift anything because, as has been repeatedly stated on this thread and on other social media platforms, there currently isn't any ASLEF industrial action taking place within ScotRail.

So drivers have just decided individually not to make themselves available, which is absolutely their prerogative, without any direction from ASLEF?

 

[74A]

So drivers have just decided individually not to make themselves available, which is absolutely their prerogative, without any direction from ASLEF?

Correct. If ASLEF had told their members not to work overtime without a ballot that would be illegal.

Last time they tried to do that when they said to their Southern members not to drive 12 car trains they were sued and had to pay compensation. Somewhere about 250k I believe.

 

[Falcon1200]

Correct. If ASLEF had told their members not to work overtime without a ballot that would be illegal.

Fair enough, but it sounds a little like splitting hairs; ASLEF have not instructed their Scotrail members not to work overtime, instead their Scotrail members have decided en masse not to work overtime. The end result for the passenger, and the industry, is the same.

 

[najaB]

Fair enough, but it sounds a little like splitting hairs; ASLEF have not instructed their Scotrail members not to work overtime, instead their Scotrail members have decided en masse not to work overtime. The end result for the passenger, and the industry, is the same.

I hope you're not suggesting that employees should lose the right to choose not to work more than their contracted hours?

 

[Iamanoob]

Fair enough, but it sounds a little like splitting hairs; ASLEF have not instructed their Scotrail members not to work overtime, instead their Scotrail members have decided en masse not to work overtime. The end result for the passenger, and the industry, is the same.

I was talking to a train driver a few weeks back (before ASLEF balloting and 4.5% pay offer), he said quite a few of his buddies were going start working O/T again as they were taking to big a hit on their wages. Quite a few of them relied on O/T to make ends meet.

 

[najaB]

Quite a few of them relied on O/T to make ends meet.

Which just goes to show that their salaries are too low (or they've been living above their station). You shouldn't be forced to do overtime just to get by.

 

[Southsider]

Which just goes to show that their salaries are too low (or they've been living above their station). You shouldn't be forced to do overtime just to get by.

Not forced, just shaped their lifestyle around overtime?

 

[Iamanoob]

Which just goes to show that their salaries are too low (or they've been living above their station). You shouldn't be forced to do overtime just to get by.

Champange lifestyle on a lemonade wage for most people living beyond their means but drivers are on a champagne wage but they now buy the more expensive ones.

 

[InOban]

I guess that they have large mortgages which have become more expensive.

 

[Falcon1200]

I hope you're not suggesting that employees should lose the right to choose not to work more than their contracted hours?

Where did I suggest that?

 

[VioletEclipse]

The reduced timetable combined with the reintroduction of peak fares coming soon (which will be perceived as a significant fare increase) is surely doing wonders for encouraging more rail travel (sarcasm). It's honestly saddening.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The reduced timetable combined with the reintroduction of peak fares coming soon (which will be perceived as a significant fare increase) is surely doing wonders for encouraging more rail travel (sarcasm). It's honestly saddening.

I don’t think it’s ‘saddening’. ScotRail hasn’t recovered from covid and to be honest, it probably never fully will.

Seeing it first hand, the fares trial didn’t work. The trains are barely any busier and opposition politicians will make you believe it’s a total disaster to get rid of it, but really that’s just political point scoring. The truth is, it didn’t make any meaningful benefit. Most of what it did was reduce fares for existing users which in turn left ScotRail even shorter of money. Many of the same people that want these cheaper fares also want a Net Zero by 2035 fleet. Again, is that feasible? You can’t have both without massive subsidy. Electrification is expensive, new trains the same. For me it’s only a matter of time before that 2035 target is pushed back. It has little to no chance of happening.

The reduced timetable meanwhile is very much temporary, at least until recruitment picks up again and the dispute for all parties is resolved.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I don’t think it’s ‘saddening’. ScotRail hasn’t recovered from covid and to be honest, it probably never fully will.

Seeing it first hand, the fares trial didn’t work. The trains are barely any busier and opposition politicians will make you believe it’s a total disaster to get rid of it, but really that’s just political point scoring. The truth is, it didn’t make any meaningful benefit. Most of what it did was reduce fares for existing users which in turn left ScotRail even shorter of money. Many of the same people that want these cheaper fares also want a Net Zero by 2035 fleet. Again, is that feasible? You can’t have both without massive subsidy. Electrification is expensive, new trains the same. For me it’s only a matter of time before that 2035 target is pushed back. It has little to no chance of happening.

The reduced timetable meanwhile is very much temporary, at least until recruitment picks up again and the dispute for all parties is resolved.

SNP have an election coming and need to prioritise what matters to most Scottish voters ie Health, Education and Roads. They've already rowed back on oli & gas so the 2035 target will become as aspiration with 2050 as the backstop.

 

[najaB]

Where did I suggest that?

You seemed to have an issue with drivers choosing not to work overtime, as contrasted to industrial action.

 

[Falcon1200]

You seemed to have an issue with drivers choosing not to work overtime, as contrasted to industrial action.

No I do not, in fact during my long railway career I worked overtime when it suited me and refused to when it did not. The issue discussed is the status of the current, clearly concerted, action.

What I do most certainly have an issue with is the disruption being caused to the travelling public and the possible effect on the future of Scotland's railways.

 

[David M]

Whatever the truth, the perception is that some form of industrial action has taken place.
Whatever the rights and wrongs on both sides, it's very difficult not to conclude that there has been some organisation (as in planning) behind it.

 

[GordonT]

Although there is nothing in law to prevent workers en masse deciding not to work hours that they are not contracted to work it is a bit silly to pretend, as some do, that there is no intention to use the collective refusal as a bargaining chip.
Equally the employer has little grounds for complaint as they have been instrumental in presiding over a regime which potentially will lead to exactly the outcome which it has!