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Reading Buses and Thames Valley

Non Multi

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It takes 40 minutes from town by train.
Until 2022, Thames Valley 15 service used to run a limited (4 buses per day) service from Maidenhead to Slough via Eton Wick and Eton. That bus journey was via the A4, then through Dorney and Eton Wick taking just 27 minutes to Eton.

Very easy to get to/from Windsor that way just by crossing Windsor bridge at Eton, a 1 minute walk.

This RBWM tendered route exists mainly to serve Eton and Eton Wick. Those communities wanted to return to a simpler hourly Slough - Eton - Eton Wick shuttle, so that's why the service through to Maidenhead was axed.
 
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Roger1973

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A few disconnected thoughts on Maidenhead -

The 'bus passenger journeys per head of population' figure is published - Windsor + Maidenhead Borough tends to be fairly close to the bottom of the list for a whole host of reasons.

As with most places, bus use has been on a steady decline since the 1950s. Maidenhead is a relatively affluent area, and suffered from a fairly poor bus service (from what I gather) in the 1960s and 70s because of major staff shortage at (the original) Thames Valley / Alder Valley which meant there weren't enough operating staff to crew the buses, and not enough engineering staff to provide buses to be crewed. These things tend to spiral.

I think some of the town services were operated by Beeline as Slough - Maidenhead - Maidenhead suburb, I can't remember the detail now, or how much of it was commercial, but think the current network of hourly circular routes started some time in the mid 2000's and was tendered to (then independent) Courtney Coaches.

These are clearly designed to do as much as possible (in terms of geographic coverage) with as few buses, for as little cost as possible - reflecting the political priorities and / or budget of the Council. A 'service of last resort' will gradually carry fewer and fewer passengers and is at risk of further cuts. Getting lost passengers back is never easy, and is likely to require someone to take a financial risk. Some services will never become commercially viable.

Having bus services that work for London train commuters is something that is an issue across much of the 'home counties' / ever expanding London travel to work region (although people moving out of London can have unrealistic expectations of the deregulated bus market outside London.)

There are a lot of practical issues with providing this, and few places in the home counties have enough critical mass of commuters to make it remotely commercially viable or within what local authorities consider is worth supporting, and that was before the increase in work-from-home. At one time, London commuting was much more fixed to a '9 to 5' sort of pattern, but it's not as simple as that any more, and the commuting day is more drawn out, so potentially fewer passengers per bus.

The amount of local employment in the home counties town centres has (in many cases) dwindled, and there is hardly a viable commercial daytime network, and far less travel to the town centres in the evening for leisure / pub etc. Councils have tended to focus their dwindling budgets to keeping the 'lifeline' daytime services going.

Adding early morning and evening buses pushes the bus operating day beyond what is often done as a single (long) day shift for drivers and supervisors. Some operators sell 'no evening / Sunday work' in their recruitment advertising, and getting bus drivers in the home counties is increasingly difficult.

It can be done where there's a will and / or enough funding - the network based on Heathrow (which no longer reaches Maidenhead) is a 24/7 operation (or getting close to that) now on many routes. I'm not sure how much it all costs or where the funding is coming from.

Commuters are reluctant to depend on an hourly evening bus service which they may miss if the train is late (not a rare occurrence.)

I'm not sure the traffic commissioners have given a view on whether buses should wait for trains and end up running late as a result, but if the bus waits for the 8pm train which is late, should it be scheduled (on paper 'inefficiently') to have enough recovery time to meet the 9pm train that's on time, or will it be late for the rest of the evening? Too many evening / tendered routes are timetabled on the basis of 'we want the bus to do this much in an hourly cycle, that's what we'll put on paper, never mind how practical it is.'

Then there's the question of rail timetable changes in short or long term, and bus operators / local authorities getting the information and reacting to it within the timescales the traffic commissioners expect. And if a bus connects with two different railway stations, and one train timetable changes, then what?

And in the Thames Valley, there's some commuting to / from Reading and Oxford as well as to London - connecting neatly with the London trains might mean missing the trains from Reading.

My understanding of demand responsive routes is that you can't have 'buses will leave town centre at these times and go anywhere within this area' - passengers need to pre-book. Which gets messy, especially if the train gets delayed. More use of flexible route registrations is something that might make a difference, but not many places seem to do this.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but have a feeling it's going to take more ongoing revenue funding than most of the home counties transport authorities currently have available...
 

AlastairFraser

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For a fit person with no luggage and no delays at all to the first train. Otherwise, add an extra 20 minutes. Certainly no journey planner would give you that itinerary
It's not a massive trek. 3 mins is easily do able. If you had a desire to decrease journey time and thus increase the layover at Slough, the potential upcoming battery units for the Thames Valley branches would help with that. An express bus Maidenhead to Windsor, on the other hand, is absurd.
Start the 7 from Braywick then do the town centre loop. RBWM would ideally put in a new stop closer to the leisure centre. There's a large empty tarmac island leading to the entrance road of the Leisure Centre that looks suitable for a bus bay.
It's a bit of a long way for passengers to travel from Woodlands Park and the other suburbs to the leisure centre, but it should nonetheless be trialled.
I consider myself fairly fit, and I know Slough station. I'd not even attempt a three minute connection from one side to the other...Even if both train doors were next to the footbridge (and the Windsor train never will be).
It's not the longest time, but it is possible with services being on time. If you wanted a more relaxed connection, there is e.g. the 1512 out of Maidenhead, arrives in Slough at 15.22, and then catch 15.30 to Windsor, arriving at 15.36. That's still only 24 mins, which an express bus would be very hard pressed to beat.
 

Mgameing123

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????
How do you come to that conclusion?
Example itinerary:
Maidenhead 14.59 -> Slough 15.07. Change for Windsor, leaving 15.10. Arrive at Windsor 15.16.

How do you make that 40 mins?


Perhaps the 3 would be more appropriate then. The leisure centre at Braywick is already on through route 53, perhaps it could do with a frequency increase.
3 minutes layover? No wonder you got it to 20 minutes when you didn’t give the minimum 10 minutes change time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

????
How do you come to that conclusion?
Example itinerary:
Maidenhead 14.59 -> Slough 15.07. Change for Windsor, leaving 15.10. Arrive at Windsor 15.16.

How do you make that 40 mins?


Perhaps the 3 would be more appropriate then. The leisure centre at Braywick is already on through route 53, perhaps it could do with a frequency increase.
All I mainly want to be honest is 16 to have buses later than 18:45 perhaps only using 1 vehicle with service ending at around let’s say with a last bus at 10pm. It will help people get home from a late shift regardless of demand. There also might be a need for an additional early morning run at around 5am as London commuters need to get the station early and some people in general have early shifts.
 
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Trainman40083

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It's not a massive trek. 3 mins is easily do able. If you had a desire to decrease journey time and thus increase the layover at Slough, the potential upcoming battery units for the Thames Valley branches would help with that. An express bus Maidenhead to Windsor, on the other hand, is absurd.

It's a bit of a long way for passengers to travel from Woodlands Park and the other suburbs to the leisure centre, but it should nonetheless be trialled.

It's not the longest time, but it is possible with services being on time. If you wanted a more relaxed connection, there is e.g. the 1512 out of Maidenhead, arrives in Slough at 15.22, and then catch 15.30 to Windsor, arriving at 15.36. That's still only 24 mins, which an express bus would be very hard pressed to beat.
8 minutes is far more leisurely. I guess you have to time your departure ex Maidenhead just right.
 

AlastairFraser

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3 minutes layover? No wonder you got it to 20 minutes when you didn’t give the minimum 10 minutes change time.
Slough doesn't require 10 mins to change at.
5 mins perhaps, but 3 mins is definitely do able.
All I mainly want to be honest is 16 to have buses later than 18:45 perhaps only using 1 vehicle with service ending at around let’s say with a last bus at 10pm. It will help people get home from a late shift regardless of demand. There also might be a need for an additional early morning run at around 5am as London commuters need to get the station early and some people in general have early shifts.
That's fair. The Thames Valley has many lovely rural pubs and events at village halls that are hard to access, because of no/limited public transport, and of course earlier/later services would be useful for those living in the villages.
8 minutes is far more leisurely. I guess you have to time your departure ex Maidenhead just right.
Fair point.
 
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Slough doesn't require 10 mins to change at.
5 mins perhaps, but 3 mins is definitely do able.

It depends where the stops are. With the continued closure of the BBQ'd Bus Station, if the bus stops are adjoining on Wellington Street it should be ok, but if you've got to shift round to the front of the train station it does take a little longer to go round the block as the bus station site is totally fenced off not allowing any access through even pedestrians.
 

AlastairFraser

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It depends where the stops are. With the continued closure of the BBQ'd Bus Station, if the bus stops are adjoining on Wellington Street it should be ok, but if you've got to shift round to the front of the train station it does take a little longer to go round the block as the bus station site is totally fenced off not allowing any access through even pedestrians.
Oh I'd agree were you changing bus to bus, or bus to train (done train to bus route 81 towards Hounslow, which is a faff since the "bust" station burnt down), but this is relating to the Maidenhead to Windsor train journey. Which just requires changing the platform. Not a major problem
 

Mgameing123

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Oh I'd agree were you changing bus to bus, or bus to train (done train to bus route 81 towards Hounslow, which is a faff since the "bust" station burnt down), but this is relating to the Maidenhead to Windsor train journey. Which just requires changing the platform. Not a major problem
Yeah train is definitely much faster but it just can't beat the convenience of the Windsor to Maidenhead bus (depending on where you going) because Dedworth to Maidenhead is much easier by bus and same with some parts of Maidenhead.

The issue with the 16 is that its basically just 2 town routes merged into 1 so it takes quite a long route into Windsor. I think the issue could be solved by sending the route via the routeing the current 2 uses then let the 2 take over the current 16 routeing within Windsor. Not sure how much time it would save on the 16 but it will be a good amount.
 
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AlastairFraser

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Yeah train is definitely much faster but it just can't beat the convenience of the Windsor to Maidenhead bus (depending on where you going) because Dedworth to Maidenhead is much easier by bus and same with some parts of Maidenhead.

The issue with the 16 is that its basically just 2 town routes merged into 1 so it takes quite a long route into Windsor. I think the issue could be solved by sending the route via the routeing the current 2 uses then let the 2 take over the current 16 routeing within Windsor. Not sure how much time it would save on the 16 but it will be a good amount.
It's a possibility. If there are any future route consultations, it may be wise to email your ideas in. You clearly seem engaged with topic and, in my experience, Reading Buses/Thames Valley Buses are very good with listening to and considering ideas from public feedback. Good luck!
 

Mgameing123

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It's a possibility. If there are any future route consultations, it may be wise to email your ideas in. You clearly seem engaged with topic and, in my experience, Reading Buses/Thames Valley Buses are very good with listening to and considering ideas from public feedback. Good luck!
When do those consultations come?
 

Flange Squeal

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The Hants and Surrey Bus Blog Facebook page has posted a link to a Facebook event created by Reading Buses' Chief Executive Officer, Robert Williams, about a running day taking place on Saturday 26 October to mark 20 years of the Scania Omnidekkas delivered for the flagship route 17. It will also feature some of the former Nottingham vehicles and some visitors. The post reads:

The Saturday after next (26th October) will see a running day take place in Reading to mark the 20th anniversary of the fleet of 90-seater East Lancs-bodied Scania OmniDekkas delivered in 2004, for what would become the purple coloured route 17 and begin the colour coding of routes that continues to this day. A Facebook event has been created for this, which tells us that full timings and vehicle details will be revealed over the coming week. What has been revealed so far (subject to availability) is:-

- Survivors 805/6 (YN54 AEW/X) to be in normal service over their original stomping ground of Purple route 17 (Tilehurst Water Tower to Wokingham Road Three Tuns). These are due to leave the fleet shortly as part of this year's fleet replacement programme.

- Former Nottingham City Transport vehicles 863/4 (YT59 OZN/O) will operate over Emerald routes 5/6 (to Whitley Wood) and Claret 21 (to Lower Earley). These are also set to be retired from the fleet in the not too distant future.

- Another pair of former Nottingham vehicles, Newbury & District 865/6 (YT59 OZP/R), may also be able to make an appearance, subject to football duty requirements on the day.

- A further five OmniDekkas from other operators will offer free trips around the Reading Buses network.

As more information is released I shall share it here, and you can also check out the event's Facebook page below...

Source: https://www.facebook.com/handsbusblog
 

Flange Squeal

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More details about the route branding and Scania OmniDekka running day this Saturday have been added to the Reading Buses website.

Celebrating 20 years of route branding​

2 days ago Tue 22nd Oct 2024

On Saturday 26 October, we’ll be celebrating 20 years since we first introduced our colour-coordinated brands to our bus routes.

route branding​

Our individual route branding journey all started in 2004 when we introduced a redesigned logo and brand alongside the slogan “Quality Travel For Reading”.
The concept was simple – make buses easier for people to navigate. We bought brand-new buses and introduced a new colour scheme. Starting on our flagship route, then known simply as ‘route 17’ but became purple 17 with its new purple and beige paintwork. This proved a great success and it is still known as purple 17 today!
In the years following, we have introduced a whole range of colours and identities including routes with colourful names such as claret 21 and yellow 26; to routes named after big cats such as leopard 3 and lion 4.
Our unique identity for each route makes them easier to remember and our buses easy to recognise - helping improve your journey experience when you travel with us. Having individual route branding can be a tricky thing to keep going, but it benefits all our customers from regular commuters to first-time customers. It’s also of benefit to visually impaired people and visitors to our town who can be sure that seeing a striking colour from a distance is their bus!

special buses​

To celebrate our 20th anniversary of route branding; we’ll be running some special buses throughout the day on a few of our bus routes.
Several former Reading Buses vehicles will be returning to Reading for the day and operating various journeys on our purple 17, emerald 5 & 6 and berry 23 & 24 routes alongside our usual vehicles. We also still have a couple of the original buses, 805 and 806, in our fleet (still here due to the Covid-19 pandemic!) and they will be running on purple 17 as ‘normal’ buses.
The guest vehicles will look a little different from our usual buses as they’ll be in the colours of their current owners (big thank you to Stephensons of Essex, Bluestar and Salisbury Reds for lending us these buses for the day); however, they’ll be stopping at all the usual stops along the routes.
As part of the celebration, these buses will be free of charge to travel on and there is no need to tap on or off or show a concessionary pass. Please note, all other buses will still need to be paid for normally – only the guest buses with the special display in the front window will be free.
A timetable of these special buses can be found here.
We hope that you enjoy the celebration of route branding in Reading!

Source: https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/celebrating-20-years-route-branding
 

cactustwirly

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Bet they are keeping one of the Omnidekkas
Just spent a lot of money respraying it into the 2004 livery and creating custom artwork for the inside.
 

LUYMun

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According to Robert Williams, CEO of Reading Buses, 805 (heritage livery OmniDekka) will be retained for special events, as commented on the Reading Transport FB Group.
 

Goldfish62

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Flightline 703 is enhanced from today with 2 buses an hour between Bracknell and Heathrow from early morning until mid-evening and hourly overnight towards Heathrow. The next three new E400 Cities have been introduced concurrent with this.
 

busesrusuk

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More details about the route branding and Scania OmniDekka running day this Saturday have been added to the Reading Buses website.



Source: https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/celebrating-20-years-route-branding
Whilst its good to see the Scania's long service being celebrated, the standout vehicle in attendance for me was the Reading Buses Leyland Titan RMO76Y which appears to be undergoing an extensive restoration with evidence of lots of new panels. Looking forward to seeing another non London Titan on the preservation scene - I can only hope it will get painted into its original "London Express" livery. I wish I had made the effort to go and have a look...
 
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nctd2306

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Bustimes.org showing that 7 new E400 Cities have entered service on the Jet Black 1 to Newbury today
 

Mollman

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Mark J

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RIP to the £2 bus fare.

A journey from Reading to Bracknell on the 4/X4 now costs £3 single, £6 return.

This is now uncompetitive to the SWR rail service after 12pm during the week (£4.70)

Saturday afternoon and all day on a Sunday (£3.40 with Network Card). Senior and Disabled Railcard Holders get this price after 12pm in the week too.

As a result, I'll now be switching back to using the Rail service.

Reading Buses should have struck a happy medium (£2.50 single), on this route to have kept it at least somewhat competitive with SWR.

The £2 fare was great whilst it lasted, and encouraged me to use the 4/x4 bus more.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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RIP to the £2 bus fare.

A journey from Reading to Bracknell on the 4/X4 now costs £3 single, £6 return.

This is now uncompetitive to the SWR rail service after 12pm during the week (£4.70)

Saturday afternoon and all day on a Sunday (£3.40 with Network Card). Senior and Disabled Railcard Holders get this price after 12pm in the week too.

As a result, I'll now be switching back to using the Rail service.

Reading Buses should have struck a happy medium (£2.50 single), on this route to have kept it at least somewhat competitive with SWR.

The £2 fare was great whilst it lasted, and encouraged me to use the 4/x4 bus more.
Are Reading Buses really competitive against the train? End to end times are 20 mins vs 65-74 mins so probably not their target market.
 

Mark J

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Are Reading Buses really competitive against the train? End to end times are 20 mins vs 65-74 mins so probably not their target market.
I've done the 4/x4 many a time from Reading area to Bracknell. There are a few who do the whole route, as an alternative to the train.

However, if only doing Reading to Wokingham, that would represent an even worse value for money. As the Simply Reading Zone ends at Loddon Bridge, meaning you are into 'Simply Network' pricing.
 
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AlastairFraser

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Are Reading Buses really competitive against the train? End to end times are 20 mins vs 65-74 mins so probably not their target market.
A fair amount often use the bus from the poorer Bracknell estates like Great Hollands. There's a risk now that a lot of that traffic will get a lift or walk into Bracknell station and jump on the train with the fare rise.
 

Mollman

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RIP to the £2 bus fare.

A journey from Reading to Bracknell on the 4/X4 now costs £3 single, £6 return.

This is now uncompetitive to the SWR rail service after 12pm during the week (£4.70)

Saturday afternoon and all day on a Sunday (£3.40 with Network Card). Senior and Disabled Railcard Holders get this price after 12pm in the week too.

As a result, I'll now be switching back to using the Rail service.

Reading Buses should have struck a happy medium (£2.50 single), on this route to have kept it at least somewhat competitive with SWR.

The £2 fare was great whilst it lasted, and encouraged me to use the 4/x4 bus more.
I think £2.50 all the way from Reading to Bracknell would be rather loss making especially given the new vehicles now on the route.
 

Mark J

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I think £2.50 all the way from Reading to Bracknell would be rather loss making especially given the new vehicles now on the route.
Will be loss making from some of the custom they will have lost.

I for one (and I'm sure there will be others) who will now use the train instead.

There have also been issues with the 'tap on, tap off' facility recently.

The last two journeys I made using this, show as I didn't tap off. I knew full well I did. On the second occasion, had to use the driver end machine, as the other one wasn't registering.

With this occurring, can mean you can be overcharged, especially as single fares now more expensive than the daily cap.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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I've done the 4/x4 many a time from Reading area to Bracknell. There are a few who do the whole route, as an alternative to the train.

However, if only doing Reading to Wokingham, that would represent an even worse value for money. As the Simply Reading Zone ends at Loddon Bridge, meaning you are into 'Simply Network' pricing.
As I say, the majority of people simply won't have been doing that so it's not their main consideration.
A fair amount often use the bus from the poorer Bracknell estates like Great Hollands. There's a risk now that a lot of that traffic will get a lift or walk into Bracknell station and jump on the train with the fare rise.
If we're still talking about travelling to Reading, faced with a 30-40 min walk and getting what is still a more expensive train... why would people do that?
 

cactustwirly

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A fair amount often use the bus from the poorer Bracknell estates like Great Hollands. There's a risk now that a lot of that traffic will get a lift or walk into Bracknell station and jump on the train with the fare rise.
It's convenient from East Reading getting to the industrial areas too
 

Goldfish62

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As I say, the majority of people simply won't have been doing that so it's not their main consideration.

If we're still talking about travelling to Reading, faced with a 30-40 min walk and getting what is still a more expensive train... why would people do that?
Indeed.

Plus the cheapest return rail fare if you want to travel before 12:20 Mon-Fri is £8.00. And that's before the March rise.

Since Covid SWR have cut the frequency on the line by up to 50%, cut train lengths from 10 to 8 coaches, introduced older, worn out rolling stock and reliability has plummeted. Cancellations resulting in an hour's gap are regular.

Meanwhile, in a couple of weeks time the 4/X4 returns to pre-Covid frequencies of 4bph with lovely new buses.
 

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