Ticket collection when ticket machine out of service

[alex94]

A few weeks ago, I travelled from Kenilworth to Colchester on a Super Off-Peak Return ticket valid only via Banbury. I booked the ticket online and collecting a paper ticket was the only delivery option due to the TfL portion of the journey.
When I turned up at Kenilworth to catch the 14:08 Kenilworth to Leamington Spa (14:15) to then connect to the 14:20 Leamington Spa to London Marylebone, the single ticket machine at Kenilworth was out of service. I therefore decided to board the train without a printed ticket, and instead collect it at Leamington. At Leamington, the staff member at the ticket gate was sympathetic to my situation and allowed me to exit to collect the ticket from the machines there. As a result, I managed to do so quickly and still managed to catch the 14:20 to London.

While everything went well in this instance, I started to wonder about the following questions and would like to hear the opinions of the experts in this forum.

1. I know that I'm allowed to board a train without a ticket if there are no ticketing facilities at the departure station and then buy a ticket from the guard or at the destination. Technically, could I have been forced to buy a Kenilworth - Leamington Spa ticket to exit at Leamington to collect my ticket?
2. If I had missed the connection at Leamington, would I have been able to claim delay repay (assuming I would still have been 15+ minutes late at the final destination)?
3. What if I had an Advance ticket and had missed my connection? Would staff on the Leamington to London Marylebone and London Liverpool St to Colchester services be able to verify my claim regarding the broken ticket machine at Kenilworth?
4. Would there have been a point in speaking to the guard on the Kenilworth - Leamington service?

 

[Belperpete]

Personally, I would have spoken to the guard, as in some cases the guard is able to print the ticket. In one case, when the guard wasn't able to print it, he arranged it to be printed at the connecting station ready and waiting for me.

I wouldn't have attempted to exit and get the ticket at Leamington, as it ran a serious risk of missing the connection. And if for any reason you weren't able to collect the ticket, you might have had issues getting back through the barriers without a ticket.

I have been told by TfW that in a similar situation I was entitled to continue my journey to the first suitable point where I could collect my ticket, without delaying my journey. In practice, you would have to collect the ticket at Euston, in order to transit the underground, but the cross London connection times are generous so this should not be an issue.

As you are entitled to continue your journey, had you voluntarily broken it in order to get the ticket, I suspect that you might have had a fight to get delay repay. And likewise with getting advances accepted on the onward legs, if staff can see that the connecting services ran to time. Hopefully they would exercise discretion, but the thing is not to deliberately delay your journey.

As regards your first question, who would you be buying your ticket from in order to exit the barriers? Wouldn't they be able to print your ticket?

An issue arises if a guard is unable to print your ticket, because his machine is unable to print card tickets, can he insist on you buying another ticket from him for the part of the journey you are currently making? If you are making a journey to Colchester, and he is unable to sell a ticket to Colchester, can he insist on you buying a ticket to Euston which he can sell? I don't think he can, but I have had one guard do this, and the TOC subsequently refunded it.

 

[bakerstreet]

I offer only one piece of advice here. If a ticket machine is out of order, and you have a camera, take a picture. Sometimes evidence is useful.

 

[Haywain]

4. Would there have been a point in speaking to the guard on the Kenilworth - Leamington service?

Absolutely, you had a problem and they would have been the first point of contact.

 

[alex94]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Personally, I would have spoken to the guard, as in some cases the guard is able to print the ticket.

As regards your first question, who would you be buying your ticket from in order to exit the barriers? Wouldn't they be able to print your ticket?

This is a useful bit of information. I was under the impression that tickets could only be collected from machines and ticket offices. I recall an journey on an LNER train on which a passenger got a stern telling off from a guard after showing them the booking confirmation of a non-collected ticket only. On that occasion, the guard did not print the ticket. Rather, they finished the conversation along the lines of "I'm letting you off now, but you'll likely get into trouble again at the ticket gates at King's Cross." This is of course a different situation since the passenger would have likely had the chance to print the ticket before commencing the journey.

 

[Haywain]

I was under the impression that tickets could only be collected from machines and ticket offices.

Tickets for collection can be issued by *some* guards but by no means all of them. So, to avoid confusion it is better not to advertise that it can be done.

 

[Skiddaw]

I did it accidentally fairly recently when travelling to Carlisle from Penrith on a TPE service. I was convinced I'd purchased a Mticket but realised when the guard came around that I'd inadvertantly selected the 'collect at station' option. Said guard very kindly printed ticket out for me.

 

[etr221]

Arguably (and I am not a lawyer), when you are buying a ticket for collection, what the railway sells you is a credit note, which you then use to buy a (proper) ticket, on collection. And so, my takes is, if you are unable to collect (i.e. buy using the credit note) the ticket due to lack of working facility, you are in the same position as if you are unable to buy ticket using your (other) chosen mode of payment. So it becomes a matter of you collecting (buying), and the railway issuing (selling), ticket at the earliest opportunity.

 

[father_jack]

The guards on legs one or two would never have been able to print the ticket as it needs an "old fashioned" cardboard magnetic stripe ticket. Leamington gate was completely correct letting you out but indeed the point remains with connection times so nobody could have said anything untoward at Euston.

 

[MrJeeves]

The guards on legs one or two would never have been able to print the ticket as it needs an "old fashioned" cardboard magnetic stripe ticket.

In theory...

Staff can still ToD it onto bog roll (this has happened many times before on the forum), and pray LUL staff let you through a gateline.

 

[Haywain]

nobody could have said anything untoward at Euston.

True, as the OP was going via Marylebone!

 

[Watershed]

The guards on legs one or two would never have been able to print the ticket as it needs an "old fashioned" cardboard magnetic stripe ticket. Leamington gate was completely correct letting you out but indeed the point remains with connection times so nobody could have said anything untoward at Euston.

WMT guards still have "traditional" CCST issuing equipment - though you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise due to the paucity of ticket checks!

 

[father_jack]

In theory...

Staff can still ToD it onto bog roll (this has happened many times before on the forum), and pray LUL staff let you through a gateline.

TTK machines won't let you issue the ticket if it has the cross London dagger. They let you sell the ticket but create a TOD receipt to be picked up from a TVM.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2024 ==

True, as the OP was going via Marylebone!

Typo