East West Rail Operations

[Bletchleyite]

Well - EWR *will* go to MKC at least from Oxford

It's almost a given, but there was a murmur knocking around in here a few months back that the initial service from Oxford would terminate at Bletchley. That would be throwing money away (and a gift to Stagecoach) though, so hopefully not.

and I suspect the demand on the X5 is primarily between those two points. It's operationally convenient for Stagecoach to run it from Bedford as that's where their depot is.

The X5 is run from Bedford depot, but the S5 from Oxford, that's why I think it will go that way.

How much demand there is from points west of MK to points east of MK is debateable - not much I suspect.

Not a lot. You tended to find when the full through X5 operated that you had an almost complete turnover of passengers at MK Shopping Centre and Bedford bus station, i.e. it was basically three routes that happened to be connected up.

How long Arriva stick with their Buckingham service may depend on how long Arriva stick with their MK operations in general.

I too suspect Arriva's time in MK may be limited (I do hope so, it's a shambles of an operation, but its presence on the three most profitable routes prevents anyone else coming in), but the X60 is a long running Shires operation run out of Aylesbury, not out of MK, and has never had anything to do with MK Metro, so I doubt that would be affected unless the whole Shires interurban operation was knocked on the head. If it was, I suspect Red Rose (who now operate the 100 which was the main Arriva MK-Aylesbury route) might have a go with their lower cost base.

What is likely is that if the EWR Aylesbury line is ever built, that'll kill the X60 and Red Rose 100, but it's not likely soon.

I suspect Stagecoach would have been interested in those when MK Metro sold out back in the mid '00s, but wouldn't have got it past the competition authorities at the time. Now, nearly 20 years later, I suspect that might not be the problem it was then.

Stagecoach originally had the MK local operation and had to sell it to Julian Peddle for competition reasons. How different things could have been!

 

[zwk500]

Indeed, which should be within the next few weeks as I understand it.

Excellent news, do you know when we might see freight (and then passenger) route learning runs? There's been mentions of freight in commercial service before the end of the year.

 

[BlueLeanie]

37418 and inspection saloon 'Caroline' have made several return trips between Bletchley High Level and Launton (just East of Bicester) over the last two days.

Looking forward to the gentleman with the drone taking footage of the 37+Caroline on the route.

 

[12LDA28C]

Excellent news, do you know when we might see freight (and then passenger) route learning runs? There's been mentions of freight in commercial service before the end of the year.

As early as September potentially. AIUI the various FOCs are looking at the route but nothing is currently planned to use a booked path over EWR although of course it would potentially provide a useful diversionary route. There are also some charter trains planned for later in the year.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking forward to the gentleman with the drone taking footage of the 37+Caroline on the route.

Saw it at Bletchley this afternoon. Should have taken a photo!

 

[CdBrux]

what freight might use the route, for example is there a flow for which EWR provides an advantage vs the current route?

 

[zwk500]

what freight might use the route, for example is there a flow for which EWR provides an advantage vs the current route?

Southampton to WCML (e.g. Crewe/Trafford Park/Coatbridge), Currently runs via Acton (GWML/WCML london sections are very busy), Coventry (Crossing the Job + Kenilworth single line), or Tyseley (Constraint against Chiltern services to Moor Street).

EWR isn't unconstrained - obviously anything running via Acton currently would need a new path Didcot-Oxford, and anything running on EWR would need a path between MK and Northampton which isn't exactly flush with capacity. And it'll have impacts on driver changes and the like so I wouldn't expect anything to move over immediately. But if paths can be found I could see both FOCs and NR being keen to move trains particularly off the Leamington-Cov-Nuneaton route across to EWR and the Trent Valley.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Apologies if I've missed this within the thread, but is the following decided as yet?

Milton Keynes / Bletchley to Oxford :- which operator if any?, which units (197s?) and are they to come from existing stock operated elsewhere, and is there a planned milestone for services commencing?

 

[JamesT]

Apologies if I've missed this within the thread, but is the following decided as yet?

Milton Keynes / Bletchley to Oxford :- which operator if any?, which units (197s?) and are they to come from existing stock operated elsewhere, and is there a planned milestone for services commencing?

Chiltern will be the initial operator using 196s loaned from WMR. Construction is due to complete this year and passenger services starting next year.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Anything movements that go via Didcot & Coventry really.

This is an exceptionally busy part of the Network with single line working on parts of the Kenilworth route and mostly flat junctions.

So, future freight routing may well be about the best compromise of sending a long southbound slow freight across a complex junction at Coventry and onto a single track line, or on a "keep left" path through a busy Northampton and over a flying junction at Bletchley.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Chiltern will be the initial operator using 196s loaned from WMR. Construction is due to complete this year and passenger services starting next year.

Thank you @JamesT much appreciated. I also assume here that those services won't venture onto Bedford meaning the current Bedford - Bletchley service remaining as is?

 

[The Planner]

Thank you @JamesT much appreciated. I also assume here that those services won't venture onto Bedford meaning the current Bedford - Bletchley service remaining as is?

Yes, it stays with WMT.

 

[DarloRich]

Thank you @JamesT much appreciated. I also assume here that those services won't venture onto Bedford meaning the current Bedford - Bletchley service remaining as is?

The section from Fenny Stratford Juntion to Summit junction will need some work before trains can run that way.

Yes, it stays with WMT.

thanks! I do have an idle hope that chug might chug into the high level platforms one day - the fact I need the above bit of track has no bearing on that hope!

 

[12LDA28C]

Thank you @JamesT much appreciated. I also assume here that those services won't venture onto Bedford meaning the current Bedford - Bletchley service remaining as is?

Bedford - Bletchley will need to be completely upgraded given the current 60mph maximum line speed and 2-car platforms lengths at all the intermediate stations. Only certain stations will be upgraded with suitable length platforms to accommodate EWR trains.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Bedford - Bletchley will need to be completely upgraded given the current 60mph maximum line speed and 2-car platforms lengths at all the intermediate stations. Only certain stations will be upgraded with suitable length platforms to accommodate EWR trains.

I thought I'd seen somewhere that the 60mph limit will be retained to avoid having to remove too many level crossings, or something to that effect? (But I'm not following this project that closely)

 

[Starmill]

Does anyone know if Chiltern have applied for / been granted rights between Bletchley and Milton Keynes Central?

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought I'd seen somewhere that the 60mph limit will be retained to avoid having to remove too many level crossings, or something to that effect? (But I'm not following this project that closely)

It’s been stated quite a number of times in the various different EWR threads, the TWA inspectors report is perhaps the best quoteable source, which includes this paragraph:

3.35 On the section of route between Bletchley and Bedford (Section 2D), there will be an increase in traffic required by the project from 1 tph (with occasional freight) to 2 tph (plus freight) but no change in the existing line speed. The approach taken has therefore been risk based using NR’s All Level Crossings Risk Assessment Model (ALCRAM) assessment process…
The source report, almost 400 page pdf is here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5e343cf640f0b609148d29c2/Network-Rail-East-West-Rail-Bicester-Bedford-Improvements-Order-Inspectors-report.pdf

My suspicion is that they‘re still not sure about that section in the unlikely event Bedford to Cambridge is ever confirmed, and that’s why it’s all gone quiet. I think it’s more than likely for there to be another application for Bedford to Bletchley, and the existing TWA approval will be superseded somehow.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2024 ==

Does anyone know if Chiltern have applied for / been granted rights between Bletchley and Milton Keynes Central?

Yes. Theres an approved track access application, I linked to it in a post #1603 back in April. Almost all services will run to/from Milton Keynes:

East-West Rail (EWR): Oxford-Bletchley construction progress

Super You Tube drone footage of Winslow Station from Wandering Northerner. No sign of upper deck car park construction yet. It looks as if the housing expansion of Winslow town has started over the road from the station. 1711539082 More from Wandering Northerner. Verney to Winslow Station...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[12LDA28C]

I thought I'd seen somewhere that the 60mph limit will be retained to avoid having to remove too many level crossings, or something to that effect? (But I'm not following this project that closely)

It has certainly been discussed on here that many level crossings will have to close and some of those would do anyway due to the platform extensions required at certain stations. It would make little sense to have 100mph trains restricted to 60mph for part of the route.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2024 ==

Does anyone know if Chiltern have applied for / been granted rights between Bletchley and Milton Keynes Central?

You'd certainly hope so by now. I believe EWR services are planned to use the Bay platform 2A at MKC although other platforms may be used as per operational requirements.

 

[Starmill]

Yes. Theres an approved track access application, I linked to it in a post #1603 back in April. Almost all services will run to/from Milton Keynes:

Excellent, thank you.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Bedford - Bletchley will need to be completely upgraded given the current 60mph maximum line speed and 2-car platforms lengths at all the intermediate stations. Only certain stations will be upgraded with suitable length platforms to accommodate EWR trains.

Although the suggestion of using loaned WMT Class 196 units of which some are only two-car anyway?
Many cross country routes are operated with two car units so I wouldn't have thought Bedford to Oxford with a 2-car would present problems? (accepting the need for improvements at Fenny Stratford to link to the new HL platforms)

 

[zwk500]

Although the suggestion of using loaned WMT Class 196 units of which some are only two-car anyway?
Many cross country routes are operated with two car units so I wouldn't have thought Bedford to Oxford with a 2-car would present problems? (accepting the need for improvements at Fenny Stratford to link to the new HL platforms)

A normal two-car unit is 46m long. Bow Brickhill (both 37m), Aspley Guise (down Platform 37m), Stewartby (down 37m), Kempston Hardwick (down 45m/up 37m) and Bedford St John (41m) are all too short for an standard 2-car length. Down is towards Bedford on this line.
Of those, Bow Brickhill (both platforms), Aspley Guise (down), Stewartby (down), and Kempston Hardwick (up) have a level crossing immediately in rear, so platform extensions back may not be possible. Extending forward is possible but depends on the signal positions as to how much it will cost. Kempston Hardwick could also potentially be used as is for 'doors at thirds' units although it would require a very precise stopping position from the driver.

 

[12LDA28C]

Although the suggestion of using loaned WMT Class 196 units of which some are only two-car anyway?
Many cross country routes are operated with two car units so I wouldn't have thought Bedford to Oxford with a 2-car would present problems? (accepting the need for improvements at Fenny Stratford to link to the new HL platforms)

It's not a 'suggestion', that is what's happening, 6 x 2-car units will be used for EWR services, initially at least. That does not mean of course that if there is sufficient demand, train lengths won't be increased. Bletchley High Level and Winslow have been built with platforms long enough to accommodate 4-car trains.

Not to mention the constraints current platform lengths on the Bedford-Bletchley line present, as outlined above.

 

[Nottingham59]

Not to mention the constraints current platform lengths on the Bedford-Bletchley line present, as outlined above.

If they serve the Bedford-Bletchley stations with a short stopping train, how much gap is needed between non-stopping expresses sharing the track?

 

[swt_passenger]

If they serve the Bedford-Bletchley stations with a short stopping train, how much gap is needed between non-stopping expresses sharing the track?

By 2030 they only expect to have one train per hour from Oxford extended through Bletchley to Bedford. Non stopping expresses towards Cambridge will be later and depend on infrastructure changes, which are well beyond the remit of the current project.

But the decision to allow for one through train as far as Bedford was only made in the budget in March this year, I don’t think there’s been any subsequently published details about the changes needed to make it work.

 

[Nottingham59]

By 2030 they only expect to have one train per hour from Oxford extended through Bletchley to Bedford. Non stopping expresses towards Cambridge will be later and depend on infrastructure changes, which are well beyond the remit of the current project.

Sure, but it would be a lot cheaper to have a short stopping train to serve the Marston Vale stations, perhaps reversing at Bletchley towards MK, and a longer non-stopping train between Oxford and Bedford. That way you don't have to extend any platforms.

 

[zwk500]

If they serve the Bedford-Bletchley stations with a short stopping train, how much gap is needed between non-stopping expresses sharing the track?

A stopping service takes approximately 45 minutes, a non stop move from Northampton to Kettering is timed for 30 minutes (ish) between Bletchley and Bedford.
It's roughly a 4 minute headway, so Express 1 leaves Bletchley xx.00, stopper at xx.04, arrives Bedford xx.49, next express through no earlier than xx.53, meaning leaves Bletchley xx.23.
Freight takes a bit longer so if you had an all day half hourly fast train it'd either need flexing for freight or freight to be pushed to the small hours.
All times roughly from RTT booked service next week. This also takes no account of the single line sections.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2024 ==

Sure, but it would be a lot cheaper to have a short stopping train to serve the Marston Vale stations, perhaps reversing at Bletchley towards MK, and a longer non-stopping train between Oxford and Bedford. That way you don't have to extend any platforms.

Extending the platforms should be the long term goal. It's not worth struggling on with one arm tied behind your back.
However what that needs is a decision about which of the Marston Vale options they are going with, and then to get on and build platforms the same length as Winslow or Beltchley High Level.

 

[The Planner]

Sure, but it would be a lot cheaper to have a short stopping train to serve the Marston Vale stations, perhaps reversing at Bletchley towards MK, and a longer non-stopping train between Oxford and Bedford. That way you don't have to extend any platforms.

Oxford MK is where the revenue is.

 

[12LDA28C]

If they serve the Bedford-Bletchley stations with a short stopping train, how much gap is needed between non-stopping expresses sharing the track?

That depends upon which and how many stations along the route EWR trains will serve (I believe it will be five but that may be subject to change). That would also depend entirely on any line speed improvements made. Bit early to say yet - let's just get Oxford to MKC open first!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2024 ==

Sure, but it would be a lot cheaper to have a short stopping train to serve the Marston Vale stations, perhaps reversing at Bletchley towards MK, and a longer non-stopping train between Oxford and Bedford. That way you don't have to extend any platforms.

LNR already runs the Bedford - Bletchley 'stopping' service and will continue to do so. EWR will be stopping at some intermediate stations along the route. There are plenty of trains already running on the WCML between Bletchley and MKC.

 

[Cowley]

It probably is getting to the time of starting a thread on the definite (not speculative) operations of this route if any of you would be up for starting one in the correct section?

Then any ideas of how things could be run can stay in this thread for the time being.

Go on, you know you want to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That depends upon which and how many stations along the route EWR trains will serve (I believe it will be five but that may be subject to change). That would also depend entirely on any line speed improvements made. Bit early to say yet - let's just get Oxford to MKC open first!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2024 ==



LNR already runs the Bedford - Bletchley 'stopping' service and will continue to do so. EWR will be stopping at some intermediate stations along the route. There are plenty of trains already running on the WCML between Bletchley and MKC.

The five station proposal involved removing the stopping service entirely. But it was unpopular, so may have been kicked into the long grass for now.