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ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

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Scotrail84

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Is there a reason why the number of carriages per remaining train can’t be increased on the Kilmarnock/East Kilbride lines? The number of services has been cut and you’ve still got rammed two coach services trundling around…


Can't answer your question unfortunately but what are the plans for the displaced 156 units when the East Kilbride line moves over to electric traction? Are they going to another operator or will they be used to strengthen services elsewhere?

Could be doing with them over the East side of the country on circles, Levens etc especially when Leven goes half hourly in December 24 or May 25.
 
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FlybeDash8Q400

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Can't answer your question unfortunately but what are the plans for the displaced 156 units when the East Kilbride line moves over to electric traction? Are they going to another operator or will they be used to strengthen services elsewhere?
I’d say it’s more likely they’ll send a few extra 158’s back across with 156’s staying in the West. Would save on further driver training. The Maryhill Line likely losing the 158’s it gets.
 

Deafdoggie

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Is there a reason why the number of carriages per remaining train can’t be increased on the Kilmarnock/East Kilbride lines? The number of services has been cut and you’ve still got rammed two coach services trundling around…
Because there's a danger it would encourage people to use the train. This way it's likely to put people off travelling by train. All scotrail are interested in at the moment is putting people off train travel.

Cancelling trains, short forming trains and the worst possible customer service are all purposely designed to deter people from ever travelling by train.
 

Scotrail84

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I’d say it’s more likely they’ll send a few extra 158’s back across with 156’s staying in the West. Would save on further driver training. The Maryhill Line likely losing the 158’s it gets.
Fair enough but they will really struggle to cope through the East given how services are short formed at the moment. You're correct in what you're saying about crew training though, 156s are rare visitors to Edinburgh these days and if the do make an appearance then it has to be a Central or Motherwell crew that takes it back West as Edinburgh men no longer sign them, Qst crews do but they don't sign the Shotts or Carstairs roads.

I'd heard there was a possibility of them being utilised on the East side again but its been years since Edinburgh/Perth/Dundee crews signed them

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Because there's a danger it would encourage people to use the train. This way it's likely to put people off travelling by train. All scotrail are interested in at the moment is putting people off train travel.

Cancelling trains, short forming trains and the worst possible customer service are all purposely designed to deter people from ever travelling by train.
Thats some take by the way. A company actively going out their way to put off people using their service? I've heard it all now.
 

Bletchleyite

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Thats some take by the way. A company actively going out their way to put off people using their service? I've heard it all now.

If that was their intention, pricing off would be the way to do it, as that at least brings in money. Deliberately cancelling and short-forming is just conspirababble - they may be incompetent but it's clearly not going to be wilful.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Because there's a danger it would encourage people to use the train. This way it's likely to put people off travelling by train. All scotrail are interested in at the moment is putting people off train travel.

Cancelling trains, short forming trains and the worst possible customer service are all purposely designed to deter people from ever travelling by train.
That’s not correct. It’s driver resource meaning they cannot couple/uncouple the normal amount of sets.

The North Berwick Line and Borders Railway now have some lengthened services compared to a couple of weeks ago. The solution was to run them as 6 cars all day instead, meaning they stay coupled all day. It’s caused some signalling issues, but has solved the constant ‘leaving people on the platform’.
Fair enough but they will really struggle to cope through the East given how services are short formed at the moment. You're correct in what you're saying about crew training though, 156s are rare visitors to Edinburgh these days and if the do make an appearance then it has to be a Central or Motherwell crew that takes it back West as Edinburgh men no longer sign them, Qst crews do but they don't sign the Shotts or Carstairs roads.

I'd heard there was a possibility of them being utilised on the East side again but its been years since Edinburgh/Perth/Dundee crews signed them

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Thats some take by the way. A company actively going out their way to put off people using their service? I've heard it all now.
This is the issue. Most of the Leven crews are newly qualified crews so have never signed 156’s. If I remember correctly Edinburgh and Stirling crews used to sign them, up until the lines in the Central Belt went electric. They used to run to Kirkcaldy in the evening and did a lot of peak services to Alloa and Dunblane from Queen Street. I’d imagine some Perth and Dundee crews signed them for the same reason.

The only time a 156 will show up at Edinburgh now is if either some kind of major disruption/infrastructure issue, or far more likely it’s usually just the 158 diagram in the evening that is used to swap a set at Corkerhill with a set at Haymarket. Instead of them swapping a 158, they just run the 156 from Central to Edinburgh and back. Both services I think are worked by the same Central crew for that very reason. I don’t know if Motherwell crews even sign them now.
 

Scotrail84

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That’s not correct. It’s driver resource meaning they cannot couple/uncouple the normal amount of sets.

The North Berwick Line and Borders Railway now have some lengthened services compared to a couple of weeks ago. The solution was to run them as 6 cars all day instead, meaning they stay coupled all day. It’s caused some signalling issues, but has solved the constant ‘leaving people on the platform’.

This is the issue. Most of the Leven crews are newly qualified crews so have never signed 156’s. If I remember correctly Edinburgh and Stirling crews used to sign them, up until the lines in the Central Belt went electric. They used to run to Kirkcaldy in the evening and did a lot of peak services to Alloa and Dunblane from Queen Street. I’d imagine some Perth and Dundee crews signed them for the same reason.

The only time a 156 will show up at Edinburgh now is if either some kind of major disruption/infrastructure issue, or far more likely it’s usually just the 158 diagram in the evening that is used to swap a set at Corkerhill with a set at Haymarket. Instead of them swapping a 158, they just run the 156 from Central to Edinburgh and back. Both services I think are worked by the same Central crew for that very reason. I don’t know if Motherwell crews even sign them now.
I believe Motherwell drivers still sign them.

There was the odd booked circle with a 156, particularly on a Sunday and that was one in the morning and one at night and it was basically traction retention for more senior drivers who didn't sign Central.

Perth and Dundee crews won't have signed them for at least 10 years now, they were rare visitors Perth anyway. Leven crews are a mix of internal moves and brand new external applicants and won't have touched them. They're actually prefect for circles and cowdenbeaths. Very reliable, plenty seating as well as bike spaces too.

I remember a 158/156 combo turned up at Dundee one evening and the station manager just about having kittens begging the Edinburgh crew to take the same sets back because if it was left there then no Dundee driver guard would be able to work it. :D
 

Deafdoggie

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Thats some take by the way. A company actively going out their way to put off people using their service? I've heard it all now.
I was giving them the credit with that. But if you're saying it is spectacular incompetence across the board and no one knows what they're doing (and everything I've had from Scotrail confirms this to be the case) then I'll settle for unbelievable incompetence across the board. But I thought I'd give them some credit, but thanks for confirming it's not warranted.
 

Scotrail84

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I was giving them the credit with that. But if you're saying it is spectacular incompetence across the board and no one knows what they're doing (and everything I've had from Scotrail confirms this to be the case) then I'll settle for unbelievable incompetence across the board. But I thought I'd give them some credit, but thanks for confirming it's not warranted.
I don't work for ScotRail. I'm not confirming anything. I'm only disagreeing with your opinion that they are deliberately trying to put people off rail travel in Scotland.
 

Buzby

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Well their ScotRail ‘Kids for £1’ campaign on TV and social media that’s been running for the last 2 months and has just ended with the Schools heading back does seem to prove the opposite an NOT putting people off travelling.
 

Deafdoggie

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Well their ScotRail ‘Kids for £1’ campaign on TV and social media that’s been running for the last 2 months and has just ended with the Schools heading back does seem to prove the opposite an NOT putting people off travelling.
So it is a staggering level of incompetence by staff at all levels in all departments. Wow, just wow. I'd credited them with being offical policy, but I realise from what everyone is saying, it is incompetence on a level never seen before.

In business it would make sense for it to be policy. There are, essentially, two ways to run a business. One is to keep chucking money at it to hopefully grow where you make more money than you've spent. Many huge businesses did it this way, although many businesses fail by trying to do it this way.

The second way is to get your business to the level you can afford to run, better to have less business than go bust or not cope. Scotrail cutting their business and trying to get rid of customers fits this business model.

Both are common business methods.

But it turns out I gave credit where it wasn't due & Scotrail is down purely to incompetence. That is much more of a worry. A business running on incompetence has no future. A business shedding customers to get to a level it can sustain longterm is good.
 

najaB

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But it turns out I gave credit where it wasn't due & Scotrail is down purely to incompetence. That is much more of a worry. A business running on incompetence has no future. A business shedding customers to get to a level it can sustain longterm is good.
It's not purely incompetence (though there is a fair bit of that going around), it's more that they are stuck between a rock and hard place: the unions and government pay rules.
 

Deafdoggie

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It's not purely incompetence (though there is a fair bit of that going around), it's more that they are stuck between a rock and hard place: the unions and government pay rules.
Then they are deliberately putting people off so that they can bring their costs in line. But everyone is saying it's not that, so it has to be an unbelievable level of incompetence.
 

320320

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Another pay offer rejected this morning. Talks to reconvene on 15/08/24.
 

najaB

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Then they are deliberately putting people off so that they can bring their costs in line. But everyone is saying it's not that, so it has to be an unbelievable level of incompetence.
Nope. They are making offers but they aren't acceptable to the unions. See the post previous to this one.
 

Deafdoggie

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Nope. They are making offers but they aren't acceptable to the unions. See the post previous to this one.
So they have to bring their costs inline. They don't have a money tree, they can't throw endless money at it. The only other option is to bring costs in line with what they can afford. If that means cuts and putting people off, it's okay. It's business. But appear to be arguing this is the case & yet also total incompetence. But it's really only one or the other. I'd much rather it was a business choice, but the forum seem to think it's total unbelievable incompetence, which is much more of a worry.
 

320320

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Don't think we are supposed to release the details but probably in the Scotsman by the weekend.

Don't understand why they're so keen on confidentiality now as they've never been slow in briefing the media about drivers pay offers before.
 

chuff chuff

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Don't understand why they're so keen on confidentiality now as they've never been slow in briefing the media about drivers pay offers before.
Government control from the government that say the negotiations have nothing to do with them.
 

Tractor2018

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Don't understand why they're so keen on confidentiality now as they've never been slow in briefing the media about drivers pay offers before.

They actually are keen on confidentiality. Any time details are released by the union is to counter lies in the media, which invariably leads to misplaced opinion by the public, and forumites here (and badly judged comments because some people feel the entitlement).
 

snookertam

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Then they are deliberately putting people off so that they can bring their costs in line. But everyone is saying it's not that, so it has to be an unbelievable level of incompetence.
I don’t think anyone is deliberately doing anything. The operational railway is very complex, if you’re not immediately involved things that look obvious on the outside aren’t necessarily so.
 

trainman76

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Does anyone know why the 08:21 Glasgow to Mallaig is being cut every day now to only 2 carriages? It should be 4 as always the case in the summer and it was running 4 again for about 2 weeks before last week being cut to only 2 again.

This is pretty poor considering the West Highland Line is so busy in the summer and 2 coaches is simply not enough. It also leaves a bad impression to tourists when it’s very overcrowded.

Plus it means the seat reservations cannot be in operation either when 2 carriages are missing.
 

Retorus

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They’re making First Bus look competent in Glasgow now, and that takes some doing.
 

320320

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They actually are keen on confidentiality. Any time details are released by the union is to counter lies in the media, which invariably leads to misplaced opinion by the public, and forumites here (and badly judged comments because some people feel the entitlement).

I was talking about scotrail. In any of the disputes in the recent past they've been quick to brief the media about the offers and how much it would increase staff salaries.

The cynical could think that they were trying to turn public opinion against the staff members that were rejecting below inflation pay offers.
 

Bletchleyite

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The cynical could think that they were trying to turn public opinion against the staff members that were rejecting below inflation pay offers.

I don't think you have to be particularly cynical to think that - it's standard fare in disputes!:)

It's as much a battle for hearts and minds as for money.
 

Mag_seven

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RMT ballot results just in, looks like strike action at this moment in time.

So much for the devolved administrations always "getting it right" when it comes to rail industry industrial relations (recognising of course that under the new Labour government in Westminster such relations in England have improved vastly than under the Tories)
 

chuff chuff

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I don't think you have to be particularly cynical to think that - it's standard fare in disputes!:)

It's as much a battle for hearts and minds as for money.
Oh yeah the various franchise holders have loved leaking our salaries over the years.
 

kkong

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Oh yeah the various franchise holders have loved leaking our salaries over the years.

Until not so long ago, ASLEF published the pay and T&C for each TOC/FOC on the public-facing section of their website!

At least now it seems to require a login to access the details in the Members' Area.
 
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