Lack of volunteers ?

[YorkshireBear]

It varies from railway to railway I know where I volunteer we now have a civils/track engineering gang that regularly has double digits with an average age below 30. Luck rather than judgement but we've managed to attract a lot of youngsters, try to keep the work interesting and let them get stuck in.

I have found their attitude to H&S to in general be very good, they come and expect to have competent people keeping them safe.

 

[Teaboy1]

I think this is the perfect storm awaiting the heritage railway movement.

I volunteer my services to my pet project BUT i come from a Heavy Engineering background so it second nature to me and my fellow engineers to repair and build locos/carriages/track/infrastrcture/etc. However because Heavy Engineering ceased to exist in this country a decade ago we no longer have those skills available. If heritage railways could run on software, phone apps and games consoles programming, then there would be no problem attracting suitabe volunteers / personnel. Unforuntely, the dirty grimey oily messy covered-in-crud big lumps of metal dont appeal to civil servants/programmers/paper-shufflers/shiney seat brigade/bean counters. Its not to say there are not some of those types who like to get down & dirty occasionally but in my experience it's that the filth and dirt tends to be a major culture shock to modern youth.

Its because the heritage railway movement needs skills that no longer exist in any meaningful numbers, means we are doomed. Unless you are used to dirty finger nails etc then you are of limited use to the sheds and workshops that are the foundation of railway locos/ engineering. Youths are most welcome but they cannot be be key-board inspired generation but have to be prepared for the rough and tumble of a day underneath a loco using stipidly large spanners in the teeth of a gale with the rain horizontal!

 

[pitdiver]

I have a similar problem with getting people involved in activities. I run a local community centre in my village. We have been going for about a year but can't seem to get anybody in the village to attend any activity we put on. There seems to be a general reluctance for people to come out of the front doors let alone help run the centre. What I find annoying that we ask what they would like but when we put on a requested event not many attend, only a hard core of regulars.

 

[Titfield]

It varies from railway to railway I know where I volunteer we now have a civils/track engineering gang that regularly has double digits with an average age below 30. Luck rather than judgement but we've managed to attract a lot of youngsters, try to keep the work interesting and let them get stuck in.

I have found their attitude to H&S to in general be very good, they come and expect to have competent people keeping them safe.

I think in those activities (eg civils, pway, electricals, engineering) which use machinery and sophisticated tools, there is a very high level of acceptance and understanding of the need for compliance and safe methods of working. Those doing these activities will have had the need for safe working methods drummed into them from the day they first set foot in that occupation or industry.The problem is with those activities which have strong similarities to the DIY and maintenance operations in the domestic environment. Then there is almost a natural tendency to work as one would in the domestic environment with a lack of appreciation of the needs for safe working methods partly of course because the risks and safe working methods have not been explained or taught. Perhaps the biggest example is the difference between using a ladder at home and how it is taught and carried out in the work environment. Many Heritage Railways now see the importance of this training given that the greatest loss of life at work is caused by falls from height. Source https://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/fatals.htm

 

[D Williams]

I think this is the perfect storm awaiting the heritage railway movement.

I volunteer my services to my pet project BUT i come from a Heavy Engineering background so it second nature to me and my fellow engineers to repair and build locos/carriages/track/infrastrcture/etc. However because Heavy Engineering ceased to exist in this country a decade ago we no longer have those skills available. If heritage railways could run on software, phone apps and games consoles programming, then there would be no problem attracting suitabe volunteers / personnel. Unforuntely, the dirty grimey oily messy covered-in-crud big lumps of metal dont appeal to civil servants/programmers/paper-shufflers/shiney seat brigade/bean counters. Its not to say there are not some of those types who like to get down & dirty occasionally but in my experience it's that the filth and dirt tends to be a major culture shock to modern youth.

Its because the heritage railway movement needs skills that no longer exist in any meaningful numbers, means we are doomed. Unless you are used to dirty finger nails etc then you are of limited use to the sheds and workshops that are the foundation of railway locos/ engineering. Youths are most welcome but they cannot be be key-board inspired generation but have to be prepared for the rough and tumble of a day underneath a loco using stipidly large spanners in the teeth of a gale with the rain horizontal!

Agreed. After nearly fifty years of heavy loco work at weekends and some evenings the Covid gap convinced me that enough was enough, particularly as I also told I was no longer deemed competent in these matters under the new management regime. However, I have seen no volunteers stepping in to replace me thus much more use is made of contract labour. Make the most of what is around as I feel that in a few years time this will be considered the zenith of the heritage railway movement.

 

[Titfield]

I think this is the perfect storm awaiting the heritage railway movement.

I volunteer my services to my pet project BUT i come from a Heavy Engineering background so it second nature to me and my fellow engineers to repair and build locos/carriages/track/infrastrcture/etc. However because Heavy Engineering ceased to exist in this country a decade ago we no longer have those skills available. If heritage railways could run on software, phone apps and games consoles programming, then there would be no problem attracting suitabe volunteers / personnel. Unforuntely, the dirty grimey oily messy covered-in-crud big lumps of metal dont appeal to civil servants/programmers/paper-shufflers/shiney seat brigade/bean counters. Its not to say there are not some of those types who like to get down & dirty occasionally but in my experience it's that the filth and dirt tends to be a major culture shock to modern youth.

Its because the heritage railway movement needs skills that no longer exist in any meaningful numbers, means we are doomed. Unless you are used to dirty finger nails etc then you are of limited use to the sheds and workshops that are the foundation of railway locos/ engineering. Youths are most welcome but they cannot be be key-board inspired generation but have to be prepared for the rough and tumble of a day underneath a loco using stipidly large spanners in the teeth of a gale with the rain horizontal!

and perhaps in that statement therein lies part of the problem.

 

[NER1621]

dont appeal to civil servants/programmers/paper-shufflers/shiney seat brigade/bean counters.

And when I come across old blokes who can only see younger generations and those who do different types of work in terms of tedious Daily Mail stereotypes I’m very much not inclined to give up my time volunteering for their organisations.

 

[Belperpete]

I think it has always been the case that the majority of volunteers had no railway or heavy engineering background, and could probably have been counted as "civil servants/paper-shufflers/shiny seat brigade/bean counters" - also a large number of students and teachers - just look back at pictures of those tweed jacketed and anorak wearing volunteers of the 50s and 60s who obviously didn't have a clue. The important thing is that they were welcomed, and taught what to do by those with the relevant skills and experience.

In the past, those with the relevant experience probably got it from working for British Rail or industries with the relevant skills. Increasingly, they are those who have acquired the experience and skills from the heritage railway sector itself. When I was a new volunteer, the experienced staff took time and trouble to train me up. Now it is my turn to pay that back, by training up the next generation of volunteers. Unfortunately there are some who seem to resent having inexperienced trainees foisted on them, and worse still, make it evident to the trainees. You only have to read disparaging terms such as "shiney seat brigade" and "unless you are used to dirty finger nails then you are of limited use" to see the kind of attitude I am talking of. New volunteers need to be valued for what they can do, not denigrated for what they can't do.

Yes, there will always be a level of drop-out, as people find that they don't like it, or other life priorities take over. But that has always been the case, for as long as I have been volunteering. The important thing is to treat everyone as a potential gem, not to treat everyone as a potential drop-out, because that will become self-fulfilling.

And a large part of welcoming new volunteers is the out-of-hours socialising. If everyone just disappears as soon as their shift finishes, that is not going to be very encouraging to new volunteers. The new volunteers need to be welcomed into the social side of activities too. They need to be made to feel part of the group, not outsiders.

 

[tram21]

Could it be that the railways and National Trust is not as Instagram or TikTok friendly enough for them ?

A generational drift ?

I work with a uniformed youth organisation, I have noticed a difference between pre facebook/TikTok and todays youth culture, we do enough of a draw to bring them and we do utilise modern technolgy when teaching them the syllabus, I'm not sure how that can be applied to a heritage railway.

I volunteer at Crich Tramway Village as a conductor and am currently the youngest (and newest!) qualified conductor. At Crich, unlike some heritage railways, has an excellent range of ages volunteering. Of course there are more retired people due to them having more time, but there are around 5 16-18 year olds, and everyone strives to have more and more younger volunteers, and are incredibly welcoming to younger people (unlike some places!)

I certainly find that volunteering at Crich is an excellent break from the online world, and being constantly on your feet and busy with passengers there is no time for technology. I know others feel the same, and I find a draw to volunteering there is it being a break from day-to-day life, especially being generally without technology.

We recently got a new Young Members Co-ordinator and they are very keen to increase the social media presence of the museum to attract younger generations to visit and in turn consider volunteering. As someone from a younger generation I certainly disagree with these comments saying everything has to be on a phone. Obviously you're never going to get everyone volunteering but the people who would, would probably see it as a break from technology.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2024 ==

From my experience some of the older volunteers (not all but some) do not appreciate the young people helping out, and actively try to discourage us from volunteering by making our lives difficult. This is a shrinking minority now, but remember everyone has to start somewhere, and we are still learning!

At a previous place I volunteered at last year this was certainly the case, but thankfully I've not found one person with this attitude at Crich, which has now meant they've probably got a volunteer for life.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think this is the perfect storm awaiting the heritage railway movement.

I volunteer my services to my pet project BUT i come from a Heavy Engineering background so it second nature to me and my fellow engineers to repair and build locos/carriages/track/infrastrcture/etc. However because Heavy Engineering ceased to exist in this country a decade ago we no longer have those skills available. If heritage railways could run on software, phone apps and games consoles programming, then there would be no problem attracting suitabe volunteers / personnel. Unforuntely, the dirty grimey oily messy covered-in-crud big lumps of metal dont appeal to civil servants/programmers/paper-shufflers/shiney seat brigade/bean counters. Its not to say there are not some of those types who like to get down & dirty occasionally but in my experience it's that the filth and dirt tends to be a major culture shock to modern youth.

Its because the heritage railway movement needs skills that no longer exist in any meaningful numbers, means we are doomed. Unless you are used to dirty finger nails etc then you are of limited use to the sheds and workshops that are the foundation of railway locos/ engineering. Youths are most welcome but they cannot be be key-board inspired generation but have to be prepared for the rough and tumble of a day underneath a loco using stipidly large spanners in the teeth of a gale with the rain horizontal!

Most of the civil engineering department at my heritage railway is made of said people who are all excellent learners, get mucky get stuck in and within a few years you wouldn't tell that they do a job day to day that you are clearly very disparaging about. I regularly send the youth home filthy from a day's work. Those sorts of attitudes and stereotypes instantly put people off and are part of the attitude that has led to some of our shortages today.

What's even better about these 'paper shufflers', as you refer to them, is that they understand the requirements of the modern world and are able to, in addition to getting theirs hands mucky, turn there hand to the paperwork that stops the ORR shutting us down. A thankless task that even less people are willing to do than get their hands mucky I find.

 

[Meerkat]

Most of the civil engineering department at my heritage railway is made of said people who are all excellent learners, get mucky get stuck in and within a few years you wouldn't tell that they do a job day to day that you are clearly very disparaging about. I regularly send the youth home filthy from a day's work. Those sorts of attitudes and stereotypes instantly put people off and are part of the attitude that has led to some of our shortages today.

What's even better about these 'paper shufflers', as you refer to them, is that they understand the requirements of the modern world and are able to, in addition to getting theirs hands mucky, turn there hand to the paperwork that stops the ORR shutting us down. A thankless task that even less people are willing to do than get their hands mucky I find.

I would have thought desk workers would be more likely to want to spend their leisure doing physical work than those who do it for a living. Cheaper than the gym!

 

[YorkshireBear]

I would have thought desk workers would be more likely to want to spend their leisure doing physical work than those who do it for a living. Cheaper than the gym!

Actually that is a very common reason for people wanting to volunteer in our department. So yes you are right, certainly on my experience.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I would have thought desk workers would be more likely to want to spend their leisure doing physical work than those who do it for a living. Cheaper than the gym!

We had a volunteer who was a big noise for a bank in the City of London making million pound decisions,he loved nothing more than spending his leave doing menial jobs on the railway. Stripping paint,creosoting wood or mixing cement etc was no problem for him.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One aspect hitting the likes of Scouting is that while volunteers used to be seen as just acting as a reasonable adult (reasonable parent in Scouting's case) they are now basically unpaid professionals. Not everyone is willing to sign up for that - certainly my Scouting involvement is now smaller than it was because of all the paperwork etc.

 

[Vespa]

I'm in the process of applying to be a volunteer at a heritage railway, I've yet to hear anything since my original application.

I'm starting to feel discouraged I will give it a few more months and shake the tree to get a response before deciding to discontinue.

 

[jupiter]

I'm in the process of applying to be a volunteer at a heritage railway, I've yet to hear anything since my original application.

I'm starting to feel discouraged I will give it a few more months and shake the tree to get a response before deciding to discontinue.

I'd stick at it and enjoy the ride. You're not going anywhere if you quit. If you don't expect any encouragement or praise, but just take the volunteering for exactly how it is, you won't be disappointed.

One issue is, in all my other volunteering roles, people can see what you do and talk to you. They can easily get involved as a trial for themselves. This just isn't true for most roles on a heritage railway.

 

[43066]

You're not going anywhere if you quit. If you don't expect any encouragement or praise, but just take the volunteering for exactly how it is, you won't be disappointed.

To be fair, though, people who are volunteering to give up their free time will expect the courtesy of a response to an application, even if it’s in the negative, so I do see where @Vespa is coming from. You shouldn’t need to “shake the tree”. As shown by the thread title, it’s nothing like the job market for paid roles on the big railway where they’re inundated with applicants, so can afford to be disinterested!

I have had similar treatment from a heritage railway in the past. I wouldn’t apply again (and life is a fair bit busier now, so I doubt I’d have time), but this approach is another way to reduce the pool of future volunteers.

 

[paul1609]

To be fair, though, people who are volunteering to give up their free time will expect the courtesy of a response to an application, even if it’s in the negative, so I do see where @Vespa is coming from. You shouldn’t need to “shake the tree”. As shown by the thread title, it’s nothing like the job market for paid roles on the big railway where they’re inundated with applicants, so can afford to be disinterested!

I have had similar treatment from a heritage railway in the past. I wouldn’t apply again (and life is a fair bit busier now, so I doubt I’d have time), but this approach is another way to reduce the pool of future volunteers.

I think you have to take in to account that a heritage railways volunteer liason officer (other job titles are available) is likely to be a volunteer themselves so the timescale of any response may well need to take their personal circumstances in to account, holidays etc. At the Kent & East Sussex Railway our vlo is a conductor on Southeasten. Depending on the railway there may well need to be a need to attend an induction course which only runs so many times a year, probably not so often in the school holidays. Id always encourage potential volunteers to complete the on line form that many railways have (eg https://kesr.org.uk/volunteering/). You are unlikely to be able to speak to the right people by randomly phoning a general enquiry phone line.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I'm in the process of applying to be a volunteer at a heritage railway, I've yet to hear anything since my original application.

I'm starting to feel discouraged I will give it a few more months and shake the tree to get a response before deciding to discontinue.

Which one?
Amy admission processes run by volunteers, so you've got to show the same patience you'd expect to be given yourself as a volunteer.

 

[D Williams]

Which one?
Amy admission processes run by volunteers, so you've got to show the same patience you'd expect to be given yourself as a volunteer.

In this day and age it only takes five minutes to send an email with an application form / welcome pack attachment. There is no excuse for not responding promptly.

 

[Titfield]

In this day and age it only takes five minutes to send an email with an application form / welcome pack attachment. There is no excuse for not responding promptly.

Exactly. Why cant the dedicated "VLO" (other titles are available) have an out of office auto reply which gives some indication of a response time and / or times when the VLO can take a phone call to discuss an application?

If volunteers are indeed the life blood of a heritage railway then having a response mechanism to take advantage of someones enthusiasm "strike while the iron us hot" has got to be essential.

I wonder if an email or phone enquiry from HMRI / ORR would be treated in the same way.

 

[Class 92]

Having enquired about volunteering with several heritage railways, I've also experienced that it's quite hard to get a response from them despite actively advertising for volunteers.

 

[Flying Phil]

It is very disappointing to read that potential volunteers are not being responded to promptly. I can only hope that this does not apply to "my" line.
I know that I am quite prompt with my replies regarding Windcutter volunteers, and we have a good team with a mix of older and younger volunteers.

 

[merry]

It is very disappointing to read that potential volunteers are not being responded to promptly. I can only hope that this does not apply to "my" line.
I know that I am quite prompt with my replies regarding Windcutter volunteers, and we have a good team with a mix of older and younger volunteers.

Unfortunately not all railways/organisations (or departments) are as good at responding quickly. My application to re-join the volunteer workforce 2 years ago (at the same railway as Phil) was responded to within a week or two, which for a volunteer orgaisation i consider very reasonable. For me, training was well-organised and comunication was & is excellent.

To the poster whose application is waiting a response at one or other railway, do be patient, but equally do send a polite follow-up (maybe cc: to a general address just to be sure) in case the original application has gone astray (it happens in even the best-run organisations!). Provided you're polite no-one will be offened & it shows your level of interest too.

To those bemoaning the lack of young volunteers - my training course had candidates aged 18 to 70+, and the youngest candidate was one of the first to pass out. Everyone can have an opportunity to contribute, and it's up to all existing volunteers to make it a pleasure for newcomers. If your role allows it, do encourage those more interested visitors to consider volunteering too!

The comment about social activities is quite a good point _ my role is mostly solo, and I don't meet many people except to exchange operational information. Volunteer organisations should make a point of ensuring newer volunteers are included in social activity, and ensure no-one feels out on a limb. For me, a recent railway-wide social gathering (around miniature trains, as it happens) was a nice opportunity to meet staff in other parts of the railway; some were younger new volunteers, others old hands and department leads I don't normally see. You never know who you might have a useful or interesting conversation with...

 

[Llanigraham]

In this day and age it only takes five minutes to send an email with an application form / welcome pack attachment. There is no excuse for not responding promptly.

And if the "VLO" is a volunteer and happens to be on holiday?
Funnily enough volunteers are human and have a life away from their VOLUNTARY role.

 

[Titfield]

And if the "VLO" is a volunteer and happens to be on holiday?
Funnily enough volunteers are human and have a life away from their VOLUNTARY role.

Out of office auto reply on the email.

I a sure most prospective volunteers would be happy to receive an acknowledgement and be advised when the VLO will be back to respond.

 

[paul1609]

Exactly. Why cant the dedicated "VLO" (other titles are available) have an out of office auto reply which gives some indication of a response time and / or times when the VLO can take a phone call to discuss an application?

If volunteers are indeed the life blood of a heritage railway then having a response mechanism to take advantage of someones enthusiasm "strike while the iron us hot" has got to be essential.

I wonder if an email or phone enquiry from HMRI / ORR would be treated in the same way.

The ORR/HMRI are unlikely to be phoning the Santa Special Ticket Line to be honest

Out of office auto reply on the email.

I a sure most prospective volunteers would be happy to receive an acknowledgement and be advised when the VLO will be back to respond.

I rather imagine that all the enquiry services give an acknowledgement. Updating the website continually to reflect the vlos personal circumstances may be more difficult. If i apply for any other job Id be surprised to receive a reply telling me exactly when Im going to be contacted about my application and thats at companies with a full time hr.

 

[birchesgreen]

VLO might be away but surely some things are of sufficient priority that there needs to be some sort of cover?

 

[YorkshireBear]

VLO might be away but surely some things are of sufficient priority that there needs to be some sort of cover?

What if there is no one to cover it?

I'm not excusing it but lots of these organisations simply do not have anyone to cover. And actually operational duties may come first to keep operating days going.

 

[Belperpete]

My email program allows me to set up "out of office", but unfortunately it only works if I leave my PC up and running while I am away - which I am reluctant to do. Whether someone can set up an out of office that works while their PC is off depends on their email service provider.

It is not unknown for phone numbers and email addresses on obscure (and sometimes not so obscure) parts of websites to go unchanged long after the contact details have changed. Some railways' email and IT provision seems more amateur than others.

Also, people pick up contact details from all sorts of obscure places. The line that I volunteer at has an emergency contact number expressly for incidents - all sorts of weird and wonderful calls come in on that number.

If someone hasn't received a reply to an email within a week or so, it would at least be worth checking the email address that you have used is the correct and up-to-date one. Just firing an email off and then sitting back and doing nothing further for a couple of months (!) seems remarkably un-proactive.