Visiting all London Terminals by National Rail

[pne]

Would it be possible to travel from one London Terminal to another and visit all of them, without using the Underground, using only National Rail, in a terminal–connection–terminal–connection–terminal… journey?

(Ideally, with the journey into a Terminal and the journey back out on separate operators.)

And what kind of tickets would be required? Lots of Singles would surely work, but in many cases, a "terminal A–connection–terminal B" segment might be covered by an Any Permitted return ticket? Maybe Oyster or Contactless for some or all of the trips?

Could it be done in one day?

I was thinking of something like

Fenchurch Street
Upminster
Romford
Liverpool Street
Cambridge
Old Street / Moorgate
Finsbury Park
King’s Cross
Peterborough
Leicester
St Pancras
Bedford
Bletchley
Euston
Coventry
Banbury
Marylebone
Oxford
Paddington
Reading
Waterloo [not quite the “correct” order, but the direct lines from Reading to Waterloo and from Victoria to London Bridge make this easier]
Clapham Junction
Victoria
(direct Southern train via Crystal Palace)
London Bridge
Charing Cross (and Waterloo East?)
London Bridge
Blackfriars (and City Thameslink and Farringdon? Or would Farringdon “have to” be done from the St Pancras end to do it “properly”? Or are those two not “needed”?)
London Bridge
Cannon Street
Abbey Wood
Whitechapel
Romford
Upminster
Fenchurch Street [which is where we started off]

Any comments or improvements?

What sort of money would this kind of silliness cost?

 

[Gaelan]

And what kind of tickets would be required? Lots of Singles would surely work, but in many cases, a "terminal A–connection–terminal B" segment might be covered by an Any Permitted return ticket? Maybe Oyster or Contactless for some or all of the trips?

As long as you stay within Zones 1-6, a day travelcard is almost certainly the best approach.

…ah, looking at your itinerary, you're going as far as Oxford, Cambridge and Coventry - so perhaps not.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

You could save a bit of time and £££ for King's Cross → St Pancras by only going out as far as Finsbury Park, or do you not count the Thameslink station as part of the main station? You can still use the main station upstairs for the Bedford leg by using a Corby service.

 

[signed]

What sort of money would this kind of silliness cost?

I would say a Zone 1-6 day travelcard + outboundaries, shouldn't cost that much, without a railcard, probably like £100

 

[Flying Snail]

You could save a bit of time and £££ for King's Cross → St Pancras by only going out as far as Finsbury Park, or do you not count the Thameslink station as part of the main station? You can still use the main station upstairs for the Bedford leg by using a Corby service.

Same for St Pancras to Euston by using the short walk from West Hampstead - West Hampstead Thameslink.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Same for St Pancras to Euston by using the short walk from West Hampstead - West Hampstead Thameslink.

Yes - I forgot about that bit! Unless the OP absolutely has to use the main train shed platforms at St Pancras?

 

[pne]

As long as you stay within Zones 1-6, a day travelcard is almost certainly the best approach.

I don't think you can get from, say, Paddington to Clapham Junction without leaving the Zones, can you?

You could save a bit of time and £££ for King's Cross → St Pancras by only going out as far as Finsbury Park, or do you not count the Thameslink station as part of the main station? You can still use the main station upstairs for the Bedford leg by using a Corby service.

Ah, I hadn’t thought of that possibility. Thanks!

Same for St Pancras to Euston by using the short walk from West Hampstead - West Hampstead Thameslink.

And then via Willesden Junction and the Watford DC line back into Euston?

That would save quite a bit of a journey.

Is there any shortcut connecting the Chiltern Main Line to the WCML south of Coventry?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I would say a Zone 1-6 day travelcard + outboundaries, shouldn't cost that much, without a railcard, probably like £100

So, how much in total are we talking? Presumably BZ6 -> Coventry isn't an available fare, so what would be cheap yet flexible, if doing the circuit that way (via Coventry)?

 

[Tester]

Is there any shortcut connecting the Chiltern Main Line to the WCML south of Coventry?

Not right now, but one is coming

 

[Haywain]

would Farringdon “have to” be done from the St Pancras end to do it “properly”? Or are those two not “needed”?)

Farringdon is not a London Terminals station.

 

[Flying Snail]

I don't think you can get from, say, Paddington to Clapham Junction without leaving the Zones, can you?

Ah, I hadn’t thought of that possibility. Thanks!

And then via Willesden Junction and the Watford DC line back into Euston?

That would save quite a bit of a journey.

Is there any shortcut connecting the Chiltern Main Line to the WCML south of Coventry?

Depends on how much walking you are willing to do.

Wembley Stadium to Wembley Central is about a 15m walk.

 

[plugwash]

I don't think you can get from, say, Paddington to Clapham Junction without leaving the Zones, can you?

If the Crossrail and Thameslink cores are allowed you could do.

Paddington->Farringdon->Denmark Hill->Clapham junction.

If the thameslink and crossrail cores are disallowed then it doesn't look possible. It doesn't look like the great western has any interchanges with other national rail lines until it's outside the zones (It connects with SWR at Reading and with Chiltern at oxford)

Going round the loop of London Terminals, trying to work out if they can be done without using the underground, walking between stations, or leaving the zones.

Moorgate to Kings cross can be done with a Change at Finsbury park.
Kings cross to St pancras can again be done with a Change at Finsbury park.
St Pancras to Euston can be done with changes at Finsbury park, Highbury and Islington and Willisden Junction.
Euston to Marlybone doesn't seem possible.
Marlybone to Paddington doesn't seem possible.
Paddington to Victoria can be done with changes at Farringdon and Mitcham Junction.
Victoria to Waterloo can be done with a change at Clapham junction.
Waterloo to Charing cross can be done with changes at Clapham junction, Denmark hill and Lewisham.
Charing cross to Waterloo east has direct trains.
Waterloo East to Blackfriars can be done with a change at London Bridge.
Blackfriars to City Thameslink has direct trains. (city thameslink is on the official list of "london terminals" despite not having any terminus platforms!)
City thameslink to Cannon Street can be done with a change at London Bridge.
Cannon Street to London Bridge has direct trains.
London Bridge to Fenchurch Street can be done with changes at Queens road Peckham, Whitechapel, Romford and Upminster.
Fenchurch street to Liverpool Street can be done with changes at Upminster and Romford.
Liverpool Street to Moorgate can be done with changes at Statford and Highbury and islington.

 

[swt_passenger]

If the Crossrail and Thameslink cores are allowed you could do.

Paddington->Farringdon->Denmark Hill->Clapham junction.

If the thameslink and crossrail cores are disallowed then I don't think it's possible.

If short walks are ok though, is via Windsor better than going all the way to Reading?

In earlier years you could do Paddington to Marylebone by using the Chiltern parliamentary via one or other of the Ruislip stations.

Yet another option if the Overground is ok, (and people have already brought up interchanging via the Hampstead stations), is to use the North and West London Lines to get from Euston to Clapham Junction, and leave Paddington til later.

Going back to the Thameslink area, although Farringdon isn’t needed you do need City Thameslink. I’d be tempted to do the east and north side terminals, then go via the WLL and Clapham Jn to get to the southern terminals, finishing at City Thameslink before heading to Paddington via Farringdon. Then you still have the issue of whether the main shed and low level are different stations, like at St Pancras. Not easy is it.

 

[pne]

Yet another option if the Overground is ok

Yes; I would count Overground (and Elizabeth Line, and Thameslink for that matter) as National Rail for this purpose.

Although going through any of the Core routes does feel a little bit like cheating! You’re meant to approach the Terminals from the outside.

although Farringdon isn’t needed you do need City Thameslink.

I see.

Then you still have the issue of whether the main shed and low level are different stations, like at St Pancras. Not easy is it.

Very true!

And you also have to consider whether the shortest route from Liverpool Street to Moorgate "via National Rail" is not via Cambridge, but rather via the Elizabeth Line station which connects to both NR stations. But that feels even more like cheating, since you're not taking the train from A to B. You might as well walk from Fenchurch Street to Liverpool Street if that's how you want to do it.

 

[signed]

BZ6 - Cambridge = £30.60 (Off-Peak return, any permitted)
Harrow and Wealdstone - Coventry = £18.70 (Super off-Peak single, LNR/WMR only)
Coventry - Oxford = £24.60 (Off-Peak Split at Limington Spa and Banbury, any permitted)
Oxford - BZ6 = £24.80 (Off-Peak return, any permitted)
Oxford - BZ6 = £24.70 (Off-Peak single, any permitted)
All stations - Reading = £25.20 (Off-Peak return, any permitted)

The rest should be covered by a 1-6 travelcard

 

[pne]

Thank you for looking those up!

 

[Haywain]

And you also have to consider whether the shortest route from Liverpool Street to Moorgate "via National Rail" is not via Cambridge, but rather via the Elizabeth Line station which connects to both NR stations.

Liverpool Street to Moorgate can be done without leaving London by changing at Stratford and Highbury & Islington (or instead of Stratford, Hackney Downs and Hackney Central).

 

[paul1609]

Would it be possible to travel from one London Terminal to another and visit all of them, without using the Underground, using only National Rail, in a terminal–connection–terminal–connection–terminal… journey?

(Ideally, with the journey into a Terminal and the journey back out on separate operators.)

And what kind of tickets would be required? Lots of Singles would surely work, but in many cases, a "terminal A–connection–terminal B" segment might be covered by an Any Permitted return ticket? Maybe Oyster or Contactless for some or all of the trips?

Could it be done in one day?

I was thinking of something like

Fenchurch Street
Upminster
Romford
Liverpool Street
Cambridge
Old Street / Moorgate
Finsbury Park
King’s Cross
Peterborough
Leicester
St Pancras
Bedford
Bletchley
Euston
Coventry
Banbury
Marylebone
Oxford
Paddington
Reading
Waterloo [not quite the “correct” order, but the direct lines from Reading to Waterloo and from Victoria to London Bridge make this easier]
Clapham Junction
Victoria
(direct Southern train via Crystal Palace)
London Bridge
Charing Cross (and Waterloo East?)
London Bridge
Blackfriars (and City Thameslink and Farringdon? Or would Farringdon “have to” be done from the St Pancras end to do it “properly”? Or are those two not “needed”?)
London Bridge
Cannon Street
Abbey Wood
Whitechapel
Romford
Upminster
Fenchurch Street [which is where we started off]

Any comments or improvements?

What sort of money would this kind of silliness cost?

You need to stop off at and highlight Vauxhaul.

 

[pne]

If short walks are ok though, is via Windsor better than going all the way to Reading?

What kind of ticket would be appropriate for this journey?

Is there a "boundary zone 6 to either Windsor station" return ticket?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2024 ==

You need to stop off at and highlight Vauxhaul.

Ah, is that a London Terminal of its own?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2024 ==

Liverpool Street to Moorgate can be done without leaving London by changing at Stratford and Highbury & Islington

Thanks!

 

[plugwash]

And you also have to consider whether the shortest route from Liverpool Street to Moorgate "via National Rail" is not via Cambridge, but rather via the Elizabeth Line station which connects to both NR stations. But that feels even more like cheating.

If you don't allow that, I'm pretty sure that via Stratford and Highbury and Islington is *way* shorter than via Cambridge.

 

[Tester]

Although going through any of the Core routes does feel a little bit like cheating! You’re meant to approach the Terminals from the outside.

Then overshoot from the core and come in properly!

 

[swt_passenger]

What kind of ticket would be appropriate for this journey?

Is there a "boundary zone 6 to either Windsor station" return ticket?


Thanks!

I‘m not at all sure, but I don’t think there’s a simple “Windsor stations” option. Someone will have an idea, it might involve a boundary zone ticket to/from Slough, but it’s not my area…

 

[pne]

Unless the OP absolutely has to use the main train shed platforms at St Pancras?

It would certainly feel more like using the “real” London Terminal, not the little kiddy table in the cellar.

 

[Haywain]

It would certainly feel more like using the “real” London Terminal, not the little kiddy table in the cellar.

In which case you either have to go out as far as Luton Airport Parkway or go to Stratford (again) and have a walk to Stratford International. The third option is a round trip to Paris or Brussels if you really want to use the 'proper' station!

 

[MrJeeves]

It would certainly feel more like using the “real” London Terminal, not the little kiddy table in the cellar.

I mean if you don't want the little kiddy table, you'd really have to use the 433 metre Eurostar platforms...

 

[Haywain]

I mean if you don't want the little kiddy table, you'd really have to use the 433 metre Eurostar platforms...

Quite. The Southeastern and EMR parts of the station are akin to having a big comfortable armchair and only being allowed to sit on the arms!

 

[pne]

I don’t think there’s a simple “Windsor stations” option.

I found this old thread:

London Terminals to Windsor

If I purchase this ticket is the outbound journey restricted to from Waterloo and/or Paddington or would it be valid from elsewhere, e.g. CityThameslink?

www.railforums.co.uk

including this tidbit:

"A ticket to Datchet used to be the workaround if you wanted to travel one way and return the other. Unfortunately there's a negative easement preventing this nowadays although technically I'm not sure if the easement can be enforced due to the 3 mile rule."

 

[Benjwri]

I found this old thread:

London Terminals to Windsor

If I purchase this ticket is the outbound journey restricted to from Waterloo and/or Paddington or would it be valid from elsewhere, e.g. CityThameslink?

www.railforums.co.uk

including this tidbit:

"A ticket to Datchet used to be the workaround if you wanted to travel one way and return the other. Unfortunately there's a negative easement preventing this nowadays although technically I'm not sure if the easement can be enforced due to the 3 mile rule."

Realistically though you're quite unlikely to get let through the gate line at Paddington, and if you're caught with it on the GWR side they aren't going to be all to happy to let you off so it's quite risky.

If you don't want to go out to Reading, maybe consider talking from Acton Mainline to Acton Central, then Overground to Richmond and SWR back in?

 

[redreni]

I'm in two minds whether to engage with this, but here goes...

As you're allowing multiple changes to get between London Terminals (which you have to or it would be impossible), is your idea to minimise changes or minimise time and cost?

Because you could do Liverpool Street to Old Street via
Whitechapel > Highbury & Islington, or
Hackney Downs / Hackney Central > Highburgy & Islington, or
Stratford > Highbury & Islington.

Those are all exclusively National Rail routes (however much TfL may not like that fact).

Similarly, as mentioned above, no obvious need to go any further than Finsbury Park to get from Old Street to Kings Cross and then St Pancras.

Not sure where you stand on using fixed walking links that appear on the London Rail and Tube Services map? Because if that's okay you can do St Pancras to Euston via West Hampstead Thameslink > West Hampstead > Willesden Junction. And so on.

 

[QSK19]

Quite. The Southeastern and EMR parts of the station are akin to having a big comfortable armchair and only being allowed to sit on the arms!

Best description I’ve read! And short arms at that