UK General Election 2024: The Results & Aftermath

[edwin_m]

Although to be fair to him (which is something I say through clenched teeth), he only had three months before a rather big “event” caught up with him.

We may never find out whether he intended to keep his promises.

 

[jfollows]

Further (https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ded-in-the-kings-speech-and-what-will-they-do):

High-speed rail (Crewe to Manchester) bill: An acknowledgment in law that Labour will not resurrect the Birmingham to Manchester leg of HS2, instead focusing on east to west links.

 

[Energy]

Further (https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ded-in-the-kings-speech-and-what-will-they-do):

Rather odd analysis, why would Birmingham - Crewe show up when it's already been through Parliament.

If anything it's an indication of possible further commitment to HS2 as the Crewe to High Leigh section hasn't been cut out.

 

[Yew]

I assume that between Williams and the civil servants, the input from the Conservatives was minimal anyway. The most likely explanation for them coming up with a mass nationalisation in the first place is that they didn't actually read it

Now if we could just stop sticking "Great" on the start of Britain the whole time it would be nice. I'm starting to feel like we've fallen through a portal to the 1970s - a flailing and failing nation appending Great to everything in a desperate attempt to prove that we don't need to be part of Europe.

It does seem odd that they've stuck with the very Boris Johnsonny naming convention.

Never mind renaming everything "Great British" whilst seemingly trying to move our international persona away from Great Britain, toward the United Kingdom.

 

[eldomtom2]

It does seem odd that they've stuck with the very Boris Johnsonny naming convention.

Never mind renaming everything "Great British" whilst seemingly trying to move our international persona away from Great Britain, toward the United Kingdom.

Well, it is accurate in the sense that GBR will be restricted to the former Kingdom of Great Britain and will not have a presence in Northern Ireland.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Never mind renaming everything "Great British" whilst seemingly trying to move our international persona away from Great Britain, toward the United Kingdom.

Well if - as seems likely - the new Great British Railways will be responsible for railways in England, Scotland and Wales only, and not Northern Ireland, then I believe 'Great Britain' is the correct term for that area.

 

[birchesgreen]

Well if - as seems likely - the new Great British Railways will be responsible for railways in England, Scotland and Wales only, and not Northern Ireland, then I believe 'Great Britain' is the correct term for that area.

Exactly, people get too hung up on the name. So what if the walking carpet used Great- a lot during his reign of error, he probably didn't think of it anyway, was probably a senior civil servant.

 

[Ediswan]

Never mind renaming everything "Great British" whilst seemingly trying to move our international persona away from Great Britain, toward the United Kingdom.

It would soon mostly be abbreviated to GB/GBR, same as many other uses.

 

[sor]

I'm doubtful ID cards would have much of an impact on boaty people arriving on these shores. It might impact their access to legitimate passported services, but many if not most of these people don't end up in legitimate spheres, well not at first at least. Many pay, or more accurately owe considerable amounts of money (often into thousands and tens of thousands of dollars) to be smuggled across multiple borders and into the UK. And to pay those debts back they are shipped out of sight and sound into what can be described as little more than slave labour, often homed / fed by their "employers" way off the grid, not paying tax or having access to health or education services.

Its often the case that they only appear on the radar when they are tipped out of the black employment market when they are no longer needed, i.e. debts paid off. Believe me a lot of work has gone into understanding this, and trying to work out ways to stop it. But the reality is that the only way to stop it is to stop the illegal employers, and that people in this country stop using those companies and highlight their existence.

It does make immigration raids and such easier though. If you don't have an ID card (and no record of one having been issued) then questions can be asked. If you have one, they can scan it and immediately receive confirmation that it's valid, not expired, who the holder purports to be, immigration status if not a UK or Irish citizen, etc (much like a passport). Ditto for bank accounts and proof of right to work or rent. Can't do that with driving licences or birth certs or all the other things that are accepted for (semi)official purposes.

While it shouldn't be a priority for receiving emergency healthcare then the same could be done there too - present ID card at point of use or phone with the ID card number later on or something.

 

[Snow1964]

Government press release : Kings speech briefing

Railways Bill is pages 31 - 33

High speed rail (Crewe to Manchester) Bill is pages 43 - 44

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6697ac9cab418ab05559271d/King_s_Speech_2024_background_briefing_GOV.uk.pdf

 

[takno]

While it shouldn't be a priority for receiving emergency healthcare then the same could be done there too - present ID card at point of use or phone with the ID card number later on or something.

Emergency healthcare is one of the things which it is most important not to include, since it should be accessible to all without questions or delays. If there was any suggestion of this being bundled into ID cards the whole concept would quickly lose a huge amount of support

 

[Bantamzen]

It does make immigration raids and such easier though. If you don't have an ID card (and no record of one having been issued) then questions can be asked. If you have one, they can scan it and immediately receive confirmation that it's valid, not expired, who the holder purports to be, immigration status if not a UK or Irish citizen, etc (much like a passport). Ditto for bank accounts and proof of right to work or rent. Can't do that with driving licences or birth certs or all the other things that are accepted for (semi)official purposes.

While it shouldn't be a priority for receiving emergency healthcare then the same could be done there too - present ID card at point of use or phone with the ID card number later on or something.

Well if ID card carrying was made compulsory otherwise the process would be much the same, but it still doesn't stop the problem of immigrant worker smuggling in the first instance.

Emergency healthcare is one of the things which it is most important not to include, since it should be accessible to all without questions or delays. If there was any suggestion of this being bundled into ID cards the whole concept would quickly lose a huge amount of support

indeed, it would require ID card carrying to be compulsory which as you say would not be popular. Any ID card scheme should not be made compulsory, and for urgent services there should still be alternative means to access because cards can easily be lost.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Mind you, is "Great British Railways" actually a clever conservative idea, or just a part-reversion to the days of nationalisation without going the whole hog and re-creating British Rail?

To be really truthful with you, I dont know nor do I really care anymore. Just get it done.

 

[76020]

In the Kings speech today is a the bill that will bring the current train operators franchises back into a newly formed publicly owned Great British Railways. At present there are a number of Government run rail franchises, these are Caledonian Sleeper, London North Eastern Railway, Northern, Scotrail, South Eastern, Transpennine Express and Transport for Wales Rail, the first franchise to expire will be South Western Railway on 28/05/25 followed by C2C on 20/07/25.
At this early stage I guess that the current Government run trains will the first to be transferred into the newly formed GBR.
So my question is this, will all the trains that are part of GBR will be painted the same colour, if so what would you prefer? Could we see a return to Corporate Rail Blue or even 1960's Maroon.

 

[birchesgreen]

In the Kings speech today is a the bill that will bring the current train operators franchises back into a newly formed publicly owned Great British Railways. At present there are a number of Government run rail franchises, these are Caledonian Sleeper, London North Eastern Railway, Northern, Scotrail, South Eastern, Transpennine Express and Transport for Wales Rail, the first franchise to expire will be South Western Railway on 28/05/25 followed by C2C on 20/07/25.
At this early stage I guess that the current Government run trains will the first to be transferred into the newly formed GBR.
So my question is this, will all the trains that are part of GBR will be painted the same colour, if so what would you prefer? Could we see a return to Corporate Rail Blue or even 1960's Maroon.

Red, white and blue would be good, bring back Network South East's livery!

 

[ainsworth74]

I think we probably need some new threads if we're going to start going into GBR in any great detail. Members may also want to consult the Compendium of Threads about GBR which can be found here. If any of these threads are locked and they wish to have them re-opened please report a post from that thread. But I don't think it's going to work to have extensive discussions of GBR on this thread. Particularly speculative discussions about things like liveries.

 

[76020]

I think we probably need some new threads if we're going to start going into GBR in any great detail. Members may also want to consult the Compendium of Threads about GBR which can be found here. If any of these threads are locked and they wish to have them re-opened please report a post from that thread. But I don't think it's going to work to have extensive discussions of GBR on this thread. Particularly speculative discussions about things like liveries.

Do you want me to create a new thread about things like what the trains could look like in the near future?

 

[ainsworth74]

There's probably no harm in starting such a thread in Speculative Discussion. You may want to link back to this extensive discussion from a couple of years ago as well: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/great-british-railways-livery-branding-and-appearance.217495/

 

[edwin_m]

Government press release : Kings speech briefing

Railways Bill is pages 31 - 33

High speed rail (Crewe to Manchester) Bill is pages 43 - 44

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6697ac9cab418ab05559271d/King_s_Speech_2024_background_briefing_GOV.uk.pdf

Any mention anywhere of whether the land is still government-owned and/or safeguarded for Phase 2a and any parts of Crewe-Manchester that aren't part of NPR?

 

[renegademaster]

fed by their "employers" way off the grid,

I doubt this is true of many. Many I suspect are in restaurant kitchens in our cities

 

[Snow1964]

Any mention anywhere of whether the land is still government-owned and/or safeguarded for Phase 2a and any parts of Crewe-Manchester that aren't part of NPR?

Nothing in Kings speech info.

But previously I think it was said that it effectively went on hold until further notice when Parliament was prorogued at end of May (there are rules that ban outgoing government and civil servants from taking actions that would be against the policy of potential incoming Government).

 

[Bantamzen]

I doubt this is true of many. Many I suspect are in restaurant kitchens in our cities

Yeah, but not paying tax or national insurance so unknown to authorities.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I doubt this is true of many. Many I suspect are in restaurant kitchens in our cities

And in the past some railway station fast food outlets!

 

[nw1]

Red, white and blue would be good, bring back Network South East's livery!

Back to the late 80s, early 90s - now that would be a good treatment for the 21st century blues. Now if only some of us could revert to being the age we were under NSE!

 

[urbophile]

So basically reannouncing pretty much everything the conservatives announced for Great British railways before Great British railways became somewhat derailed as a result of the pandemic and subsequent carnage
Uncomfortable listening for the remaining conservatives and former ministers in the house. I should think as all their hard work as the credit taken for them by someone else

I doubt if any politicians did much work on this. More likely civil servants.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2024 ==

It is also a kickback against nationalists for whom the concept of a British identity is anathema, and who only ever talk about the UK or 'four nations'.

I'd have thought all this flag-waving 'Great British' nonsense was potentially toxic nationalism. The Venn diagram for UK flag-wavers who want a supra-national British state, and Brexit supporters who are horrified at the idea of a supra-national European one, must be close to a complete circle.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2024 ==

It would soon mostly be abbreviated to GB/GBR, same as many other uses.

If you can re-invent GWR, LNER etc why can't we have BR back?

 

[bspahh]

Well if ID card carrying was made compulsory otherwise the process would be much the same, but it still doesn't stop the problem of immigrant worker smuggling in the first instance.


indeed, it would require ID card carrying to be compulsory which as you say would not be popular. Any ID card scheme should not be made compulsory, and for urgent services there should still be alternative means to access because cards can easily be lost.

I don't mind having an ID, which could be on an ID card. However, nowadays with a name, address and biometrics, you could be identified without having to carry a card.

In Denmark, the equivalent of the National Insurance number works as ID to open a bank account, vote or use a public library.

 

[sor]

Well if ID card carrying was made compulsory otherwise the process would be much the same, but it still doesn't stop the problem of immigrant worker smuggling in the first instance.

But we currently have no universal form of ID to carry (or more likely in the British context, to present at a later date, perhaps with a Home Office escort to your home where you can retrieve it)

There arguably is a case for the Home Office to be doing more in this area than they appear to, but an ID card would certainly make it easier.

Emergency healthcare is one of the things which it is most important not to include, since it should be accessible to all without questions or delays. If there was any suggestion of this being bundled into ID cards the whole concept would quickly lose a huge amount of support

Perhaps clumsily worded, but by "there" I meant the NHS in general. Though - much like the need to carry an EHIC or GHIC abroad - when it comes to A&E they could sort you out first and ask questions later. Which is supposed to be how it works now for foreign travellers or people with no right to free NHS care (such as non resident British citizens) though not particularly well enforced.

 

[Ediswan]

Perhaps clumsily worded, but by "there" I meant the NHS in general. Though - much like the need to carry an EHIC or GHIC abroad - when it comes to A&E they could sort you out first and ask questions later. Which is supposed to be how it works now for foreign travellers or people with no right to free NHS care (such as non resident British citizens) though not particularly well enforced.

Advisable, but not strictly needed:

https://faq.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/knowledgebase/article/KA-01301/en-us

If you travel without your existing UK Global Health Insurance Card (UK GHIC) or UK European Health Insurance Card (UK EHIC) and need treatment during your visit, you can apply for a Provisional Replacement Certificate (PRC).

 

[76020]

There's probably no harm in starting such a thread in Speculative Discussion. You may want to link back to this extensive discussion from a couple of years ago as well: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/great-british-railways-livery-branding-and-appearance.217495/

OK, will do and thank you

 

[brad465]

I doubt this is true of many. Many I suspect are in restaurant kitchens in our cities

Yeah, but not paying tax or national insurance so unknown to authorities.

I used to watch the TV series UK Border Force when it was on in the late 00s. The programme typically focused on interesting immigrant cases arriving at Heathrow, searching lorries at Calais and border force raids on workplaces suspected of housing illegal immigrants. The latter example in particular included at least one restaurant and a food processing plant among examples I remember. The illegal workers were typically being exploited by receiving wages under minimum wage and they also usually lived in the premises they worked at, sometimes even behind "secret doors/passages". The end result was the workers being deported and the owner of the guilty business(es) being fined for "employing" them.

If the series were revived and done today, I would expect scenarios to be similar but also be extended to cover the gig economy. Food delivery companies and their dodgy work practices must surely be a hotspot for illegal immigrants, given how easy it's to sign up and go under the radar (even to the point of loaning accounts to others, which includes child labour). On a side note you could probably catch most of the illegal electric bikes operating in the UK.