UK General Election 2024: The Results & Aftermath

[takno]

That's bonkers. Despite being born in Britain and a British citizen, I only have one of those myself (driving license). I discovered a few years ago that I don't have a full birth certificate, I only have a 'short' certificate which isn't as widely accepted as proof of ID.

Hardly anybody has a full birth certificate - they haven't been issued as a matter of course since something like the 1950s. The short certificates used to be accepted for everything. I haven't used mine for years just because a Passport is more practical.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==

That's bonkers. Despite being born in Britain and a British citizen, I only have one of those myself (driving license). I discovered a few years ago that I don't have a full birth certificate, I only have a 'short' certificate which isn't as widely accepted as proof of ID.

Welcome to Theresa May's hostile environment. Remember, there's plenty of hostility to go round, and they never wanted to waste it all on foreigners

 

[birchesgreen]

I don't really see how a birth certificate can be proof of anything really, anyone can ge thold of one that isn't their own.

 

[gg1]

Hardly anybody has a full birth certificate - they haven't been issued as a matter of course since something like the 1950s. The short certificates used to be accepted for everything. I haven't used mine for years just because a Passport is more practical.

Generally it is, but for some reason a passport isn't an accepted form of ID in the link posted by @Cloud Strife

Can't remember why I was asked to provide a full as opposed to a short birth certificate, possibly either a mortgage application or legal documents for buying a house.

 

[takno]

That's bonkers. Despite being born in Britain and a British citizen, I only have one of those myself (driving license). I discovered a few years ago that I don't have a full birth certificate, I only have a 'short' certificate which isn't as widely accepted as proof of ID.

To be fair, that is from a linked set of questions, and the URL says "british-or-irish/no". I'm fairly certain it's the list of things you need to show if you don't have a British or Irish passport

 

[Howardh]

Thinking of a "universal ID card" which holds, well, as much detail of you as possible, (passport, drivers Licence, bank details, bus pass, railcard, personal info such as your will etc) it would need constantly updating. So it would very likely to be sent off every so often to be updated, so there's a risk of loss/theft and your identity stolen? And if you lose it yourself, will we have a back-up to prove who we are, or we will have to go through all the processes again!

Not against all-in-one ID, just worried about the above. Could everything be updated at home using QR codes?

 

[AlterEgo]

Thinking of a "universal ID card" which holds, well, as much detail of you as possible, (passport, drivers Licence, bank details, bus pass, railcard, personal info such as your will etc) it would need constantly updating. So it would very likely to be sent off every so often to be updated, so there's a risk of loss/theft and your identity stolen? And if you lose it yourself, will we have a back-up to prove who we are, or we will have to go through all the processes again!

Not against all-in-one ID, just worried about the above. Could everything be updated at home using QR codes?

Many countries use Digital ID cards which update immediately. Only your ID and perhaps your health/driving entitlements really need to be on there. No need for bus passes and railcards to be involved.

 

[gg1]

To be fair, that is from a linked set of questions, and the URL says "british-or-irish/no". I'm fairly certain it's the list of things you need to show if you don't have a British or Irish passport

Ah okay, that makes sense.

 

[edwin_m]

Many countries use Digital ID cards which update immediately. Only your ID and perhaps your health/driving entitlements really need to be on there. No need for bus passes and railcards to be involved.

If the ID has a unique number (probably as a QR code) then bus and train companies could include that in the list of whoever has a pass. This could be checked online when someone presents the ID, but if there is a risk of no online access (eg bus stops and stations in remote areas) they would have to have a copy of the database locally.

However, the ID card does need something to prove the holder is actually the person named, otherwise people could just lend them to each other. This would most likely be a digital photo printed and/or encoded on the card itself.

 

[sor]

Hardly anybody has a full birth certificate - they haven't been issued as a matter of course since something like the 1950s. The short certificates used to be accepted for everything. I haven't used mine for years just because a Passport is more practical.

They certainly do if you need a copy. A bank lost my "short" certificate issued when I was born, and when I applied for a replacement copy, there was no cost difference to have the full one. Came in handy later as (iirc) the passport office needed that version.

My brother applied for a passport before me and my parents had to go through the faff of getting his full certificate as well as their own

 

[takno]

They certainly do if you need a copy. A bank lost my "short" certificate issued when I was born, and when I applied for a replacement copy, there was no cost difference to have the full one. Came in handy later as (iirc) the passport office needed that version.

My brother applied for a passport before me and my parents had to go through the faff of getting his full certificate as well as their own

I've had a passport for so long that you just needed to get the photos signed and take them down the post office to be issued with a cardboard passport. Given that my dad worked in a profession which was allowed to sign for them, it was just a matter of getting one of his colleagues to do the job. At the time the certificates also needed to be painstakingly completed by hand.

They are definitely a lot fussier now, and I suspect it's as easy to print out a slightly longer document as it is a short one.

 

[Howardh]

I've had a passport for so long that you just needed to get the photos signed and take them down the post office to be issued with a cardboard passport. Given that my dad worked in a profession which was allowed to sign for them, it was just a matter of getting one of his colleagues to do the job. At the time the certificates also needed to be painstakingly completed by hand.

They are definitely a lot fussier now, and I suspect it's as easy to print out a slightly longer document as it is a short one.

Were those paper/cardboard passports only valid for a short period of time, a lot less that 10 years? I have definitely seen them and they might still be in a box I kept aftre my parent's death.

Also - I thing in the 60's and maybe 70's you could get a day "pass" to France if you wanted a day trip, I don't think even a photo was involved. Can anyone confirm??

 

[gg1]

Were those paper/cardboard passports only valid for a short period of time, a lot less that 10 years? I have definitely seen them and they might still be in a box I kept aftre my parent's death.

Also - I thing in the 60's and maybe 70's you could get a day "pass" to France if you wanted a day trip, I don't think even a photo was involved. Can anyone confirm??

For a school day trip to Boulogne in the later 80s I had a paper passport which I think did have a passport photo, I can't remember how long it was valid for, may well have been just for that one single trip.

 

[birchesgreen]

I think you used to be able to get temporary passports that lasted a few weeks if you wanted to holiday on the continent.

 

[Gloster]

Were those paper/cardboard passports only valid for a short period of time, a lot less that 10 years? I have definitely seen them and they might still be in a box I kept aftre my parent's death.

Also - I thing in the 60's and maybe 70's you could get a day "pass" to France if you wanted a day trip, I don't think even a photo was involved. Can anyone confirm??

From 1961 to 1995 you could get a British Visitor’s Passport, which was valid for one year, with which you could travel to most of Western Europe except by land to West Berlin. From 1961 to 1984 you could get a British Excursion Document issued by travel agents, the Post Office and the like: this was valid for one month and allowed trips of up to 60 hours to France, although it seems you had to use the same port in both directions.

 

[Howardh]

From 1961 to 1995 you could get a British Visitor’s Passport, which was valid for one year, with which you could travel to most of Western Europe except by land to West Berlin. From 1961 to 1984 you could get a British Excursion Document issued by travel agents, the Post Office and the like: this was valid for one month and allowed trips of up to 60 hours to France, although it seems you had to use the same port in both directions.

Sounds like what I was describing. Just in 1990 if someone told you that in 2025 you would need a minimum of 10-yr passport, your fingerprint and iris scan, and to fill in a form to ask permission (ETIAS) for a day trip to France...!!

 

[Trackman]

I think you used to be able to get temporary passports that lasted a few weeks if you wanted to holiday on the continent.

There was.. just been goggling about it, can't find any info on it, think it lasted until the mid-late 80s.

 

[DarloRich]

just reflecting on the last week: it is SO good to have seen a horrible, disgusting Tory government flushed away and instead have serious, mature adults in charge, experts appointed to ministerial roles and calmness coming out of the centre rather than on going constant chaos, personality nonsense, immaturity and a manifest lack of seriousness.

It is wonderful. Everything for the last 5/10 years has been about the crisis at the heart of the Tory party rather than the country. The tone, even in one week, is so much more mature and serious.

 

[Thirteen]

just reflecting on the last week: it is SO good to have seen a horrible, disgusting Tory government flushed away and instead have serious, mature adults in charge, experts appointed to ministerial roles and calmness coming out of the centre rather than on going constant chaos, personality nonsense, immaturity and a manifest lack of seriousness.

It is wonderful. Everything for the last 5/10 years has been about the crisis at the heart of the Tory party rather than the country. The tone, even in one week, is so much more mature and serious.

It's probably be horrendous for politics junkies and newsies but I for one want a few years of boring politics

 

[DarloRich]

It's probably be horrendous for politics junkies and newsies but I for one want a few years of boring politics

i have said for several years: we need boring, sensible, mature people in charge !

Imagine: Ministers appointed on competence rather than Brexit purity or personal adoration!

 

[SuspectUsual]

i have said for several years: we need boring, sensible, mature people in charge !

Imagine: Ministers appointed on competence rather than Brexit purity or personal adoration!

I've tried explaining to my kids, who are late teens / early 20s, that "boring, sensible and mature - both people and policy" used to be the norm, and that everything they can remember is the exception rather than the rule. They struggle with this!

(And its doubly hard on my youngest, who is a Manchester City fan, so also has to contend with the fact that the norm for them is heroic failure rather than near constant success!)

 

[Howardh]

just reflecting on the last week: it is SO good to have seen a horrible, disgusting Tory government flushed away and instead have serious, mature adults in charge, experts appointed to ministerial roles and calmness coming out of the centre rather than on going constant chaos, personality nonsense, immaturity and a manifest lack of seriousness.

It is wonderful. Everything for the last 5/10 years has been about the crisis at the heart of the Tory party rather than the country. The tone, even in one week, is so much more mature and serious.

Agree, and I'm not a Labour supporter (LD who "lent my vote"!). Happy to see Starmer meet the EU delegation @ NATO.

On a sad and appalling case, down to earth with a bump, the new Home Secretary has to deal with crossbow crime after the news today.

 

[Bald Rick]

From 1961 to 1995 you could get a British Visitor’s Passport, which was valid for one year, with which you could travel to most of Western Europe except by land to West Berlin. From 1961 to 1984 you could get a British Excursion Document issued by travel agents, the Post Office and the like: this was valid for one month and allowed trips of up to 60 hours to France, although it seems you had to use the same port in both directions.

Indeed. I did my interailling in the early 90s' and visited (counts fingers) 10 european countries on a British Visitors passport made of cardboard.

 

[nw1]

That's bonkers. Despite being born in Britain and a British citizen, I only have one of those myself (driving license). I discovered a few years ago that I don't have a full birth certificate, I only have a 'short' certificate which isn't as widely accepted as proof of ID.

The only one I could obtain easily, besides a passport, is a letter from my employer.

It does seem that this objection to ID cards is a uniquely British idiosyncrasy.

 

[The exile]

When I had to apply for a new driving licence at 70, my first with a photo, I tried to use a passport which was about to expire as ID and it was refused (by the time they processed my application it might have been two or three days out of date.) Cue a ridiculous procession of nonsense to 'prove I was who I said I was.

Whereas when I last renewed mine, I was told no photo was required as they would use my passport photo. Fine - only that passport photo was at that point nearly 11 years old. (Passport expired the following week and had been applied for “early” using a photo that was only just within the tolerance limit of “recent”

 

[Howardh]

The only one I could obtain easily, besides a passport, is a letter from my employer.

It does seem that this objection to ID cards is a uniquely British idiosyncrasy.

If memory serves, when I applied for Power of Atourney over both of my parents, somewhere along the line I had to produce a letter to prove who I was, I think my local pharmacist did that. So letters from "respected" people still must be a thing!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

i have said for several years: we need boring, sensible, mature people in charge !

Imagine: Ministers appointed on competence rather than Brexit purity or personal adoration!

I do agree, boring is good for a change.

 

[baza585]

Should that not be a matter for the electorate to decide? It is there representative after all.

Absolutely.

But that supposes the electorate are always informed of the relevant facts.

Practical example. The Labour candidate in Gosport was the last adopted prospective parliamentary candidate, the NEC having declined to adopt him on several occasions. The delay was never explained, but there were inevitably wild rumours of possible misdeeds.

I still voted for him but a number of left leaning people in my social circle did not, fearing the worst. Labour could have explained the delay in his adoption but didn't, just fuelling the rumours. Probably didn't change the result but the swing in Gosport was lower than in nearby seats.

I would prefer a standard format personal statement by each candidate which gives the electorate relevant facts about the candidate and their background and experience. Many election communications are appallingly written these days and contain little more than rubbishing the other lot.

 

[brad465]

Anyone who's an independent MP voted solely on Gaza is going to find being a MP is hard work I would bet we'll see a few by elections within a couple of years.

Already one of them could be in trouble, it's transpired the Leicester South independent MP had a campaign supporter who's now been charged with terrorism offences:

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A supporter of the new independent MP for Leicester South was charged on Wednesday with terrorism offences, less than a week after Shockat Adam’s surprise defeat of Labour’s Jonathan Ashworth in a campaign focused heavily on the conflict in Gaza.

If they're found guilty and this new MP knew about their behaviour, they'll be under huge pressure.

 

[Bald Rick]

just reflecting on the last week: it is SO good to have seen a horrible, disgusting Tory government flushed away and instead have serious, mature adults in charge, experts appointed to ministerial roles and calmness coming out of the centre rather than on going constant chaos, personality nonsense, immaturity and a manifest lack of seriousness.

It is wonderful. Everything for the last 5/10 years has been about the crisis at the heart of the Tory party rather than the country. The tone, even in one week, is so much more mature and serious.

I agree.

However, the new Governement has some really, really tough decisons to make in the next 6 months. Some as a result of the previous Government, and some as a result of the current geopolitical and geo-economic position. How they deal with thise, and sell them to the country will be the making of them.

 

[takno]

Already one of them could be in trouble, it's transpired the Leicester South independent MP had a campaign supporter who's now been charged with terrorism offences:

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If they're found guilty and this new MP knew about their behaviour, they'll be under huge pressure.

It's not all that compelling tbh. The sort of terrorism charges which see the accused released on police bail pretty far down the scale. I'd hazard a guess that he basically just said Hamas weren't all bad or something like that.

Ashworth is inevitably making a fuss because it's personal for him, but If the government have any sense they'll probably stay out of it.