UK General Election 2024: The Results & Aftermath

[Ediswan]

I don't believe an expired driving licence counts as ID.

The photo on your ID must look like you. You can still use your ID even if it has expired.

If I recall my ballot paper poll card correctly, a Voter Authority Certificate must be in date.

 

[Falcon1200]

Obviously a new sporting golden age is being ushered in under Keir Starmer!

That might all change tomorrow evening!

 

[Howardh]

I don't believe an expired driving licence counts as ID.

I know airlines accept slightly out of date ID for domestic flights (if they ask for it) as I mistakenly used my old one instead of new!! Yes, I've just looked and it expires the day I'm 70; but still with a photo that's donkey's years old!

 

[simonw]

The photo on your ID must look like you. You can still use your ID even if it has expired.

If I recall my ballot paper poll card correctly, a Voter Authority Certificate must be in date.

I know airlines accept slightly out of date ID for domestic flights (if they ask for it) as I mistakenly used my old one instead of new!! Yes, I've just looked and it expires the day I'm 70; but still with a photo that's donkey's years old!

It is a grey area, some might accept it, others wont. HMRC, for example wont.

 

[Yew]

Yes, it really doesn't make much sense at all. I don't feel oppressed by having an ID card, it's not obligatory to carry it, and it makes life endlessly easier when you don't have nonsense like "produce two recent utility bills and a form of photo ID". I produce my ID card and that's it, job done.

One of the more absurd things about Europe right now is that I can travel into the vast majority of countries with just my ID card alone. The exceptions? The UK, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine. Even the tinpot parastates like the TRNC and Transnistria are quite happy to accept my ID card in lieu of a passport.

Typically the objection is not around the card itself, but around the idea of a "Papers Please" society that it will supposedly create. I would argue that between ID for age restricted products, right to work and reside checks now being outsourced to employers and landlords, and ID for voting, we're most of the way there already; even without a card.

 

[eoff]

I know airlines accept slightly out of date ID for domestic flights (if they ask for it) as I mistakenly used my old one instead of new!! Yes, I've just looked and it expires the day I'm 70; but still with a photo that's donkey's years old!

If you don't have hold baggage (which triggers extra checks) then the photo-id requirement comes from airlines that want to be sure you didn't give someone else the ticket. I traveled for decades in the UK with no ID needed with BA, unfortunately they have now joined the club.

 

[sor]

Yes, it really doesn't make much sense at all. I don't feel oppressed by having an ID card, it's not obligatory to carry it, and it makes life endlessly easier when you don't have nonsense like "produce two recent utility bills and a form of photo ID". I produce my ID card and that's it, job done.

One of the more absurd things about Europe right now is that I can travel into the vast majority of countries with just my ID card alone. The exceptions? The UK, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine. Even the tinpot parastates like the TRNC and Transnistria are quite happy to accept my ID card in lieu of a passport.

of course the weirdest bit about the UK's opposition to the idea of an ID card is that most of us already carry one, it just happens to say "driving licence" on it (and it isn't a requirement to actually carry it, even while driving). We also appear in another government database if we are a citizen and have a passport, and another for tax and NI collection, etc etc etc.

I'll admit I was opposed to Labour's plans at the time - since they'd shown a massive authoritarian streak, had a huge data loss incident, and wanted this ID card database to store a lot more than was necessary to issue cards - but I wouldn't be so opposed now.

 

[eoff]

Typically the objection is not around the card itself, but around the idea of a "Papers Please" society that it will supposedly create. I would argue that between ID for age restricted products, right to work and reside checks now being outsourced to employers and landlords, and ID for voting, we're most of the way there already; even without a card.

The other objection is that it is easier to create a profile of many aspects of your life if a common form of ID is used.

 

[JonathanH]

They're both a spent force and the likely threat comes from a one nation ex tory grouping joining forces with Liberals

I really don't buy the idea that 'One Nation' Conservative politicians have a natural home with the Liberal Democrats, without an awful lot of nose holding. They want their own party to head back their way.

 

[Busaholic]

It is a grey area, some might accept it, others wont. HMRC, for example wont.

When I had to apply for a new driving licence at 70, my first with a photo, I tried to use a passport which was about to expire as ID and it was refused (by the time they processed my application it might have been two or three days out of date.) Cue a ridiculous procession of nonsense to 'prove I was who I said I was.

 

[simonw]

When I had to apply for a new driving licence at 70, my first with a photo, I tried to use a passport which was about to expire as ID and it was refused (by the time they processed my application it might have been two or three days out of date.) Cue a ridiculous procession of nonsense to 'prove I was who I said I was.

Yes it is increasingly difficult to prove you are who you are, if you have no update passport or driving licence.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Typically the objection is not around the card itself, but around the idea of a "Papers Please" society that it will supposedly create. I would argue that between ID for age restricted products, right to work and reside checks now being outsourced to employers and landlords, and ID for voting, we're most of the way there already; even without a card.

Yep, that is the thing. To take part in society you essentially have go have a driving license, passport or some other similar form of ID. Given we we are already in that situation, just make it easier for everyone and have an actual official ID!

 

[brad465]

The Tories might not be in government anymore, but they still seem to be trying to kill satire:

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EXCLUSIVE Kemi Badenoch used first meeting of shadow cabinet to criticise Rishi Sunak's election campaign amid concerns colleagues are failing to grasp enormity of defeat
* Badenoch said that Sunak's decision to call an early election without informing his Cabinet was a mistake and bordered on 'unconstitutional'
* Badenoch said that instead of telling Cabinet ministers first Sunak had opted to inform a small group of colleagues, including his PPS Craig Williams who subsequently admitted placing a bet on the election date. She described Williams as a 'buffoon'
* Badenoch said Sunak's decision to return early from D-Day commemorations was "disastrous" and had dominated the election campaign, adding that colleagues like Penny Mordaunt would still be MPs today if he had stayed longer in France.
* She said many Tories were clearly still traumatised. She said Suella Braverman, former home secretary, appears to be having a 'very public' nervous breakdown
* She said Sunak should stay on to ensure an orderly transition to his successor
* She was said to be speaking for colleagues, particularly former ministers who had lost their seats. She spoke of the importance of shadow cabinet discussions not being leaked.

 

[Cowley]

The Tories might not be in government anymore, but they still seem to be trying to kill satire:

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Quite liked the line about Braverman there.
The Wolf just got a good swipe in.

 

[brad465]

Quite liked the line about Braverman there.
The Wolf just got a good swipe in.

I also liked how she said it was important shadow cabinet discussions are not leaked...in a shadow cabinet leak

 

[Bald Rick]

The Wolf just got a good swipe in.

There’s royalties payable, you know

 

[ainsworth74]

To take part in society you essentially have go have a driving license, passport or some other similar form of ID. Given we we are already in that situation, just make it easier for everyone and have an actual official ID!

Exactly, many of the opponents worry that we'll become a papers please society, the irony being, we already ruddy well are! Just we're making it even harder than it needs to be to have the "papers"!

 

[Mikw]

I think it's a shame that Labour haven't scrapped the managed migration from legacy benefits to Universal Credit. One of the final acts of the Conservatives was to accelerate it from q 2029 deadline for Sick and disabled to 2024. A mess is predicted.
Where this has happened already has seen a larger explosion of foodbanks and poverty in those areas.

 

[takno]

I think it's a shame that Labour haven't scrapped the managed migration from legacy benefits to Universal Credit. One of the final acts of the Conservatives was to accelerate it from q 2029 deadline for Sick and disabled to 2024. A mess is predicted.
Where this has happened already has seen a larger explosion of foodbanks and poverty in those areas.

I don't think that scrapping it is much of an option at this stage. So many people are already migrated across, the IT systems are in place and finally functional to support it, and many of the systems and teams running the old benefits have been run down or decommissioned.

At this stage the only real option is probably to review what aspects of universal credit are driving poverty and foodbank usage. Smaller changes can be made to make initial payouts happen sooner, to be less rigorous about chasing down and forcing repayment of overpayments, and to increase some of the entitlements.

For sick and disabled people the most impactful thing that can be done to benefits is likely to be stopping the mind games around applications and qualification interviews.

 

[Stephen42]

The photo on your ID must look like you. You can still use your ID even if it has expired.

If I recall my ballot paper poll card correctly, a Voter Authority Certificate must be in date.

There is no singular standard for ID, what's required for domestic travel, buy alcohol or vote are all different. More documents are acceptable for voting than buying alcohol or domestic travel. For voting expired ID is by law acceptable provided it still looks like person, alcohol and domestic travel is more in the realms of discretion.

Voter Authority Certificates have a suggested renewal date something like 10 years after issue, they do not have an expiry. My polling card references temporary Voter Authority Certificates as only valid for a particular poll, it sounds like they are for issues with Royal Mail etc and aren't intended to be used long term.

 

[AlterEgo]

The Tories might not be in government anymore, but they still seem to be trying to kill satire:

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Badenoch and Braverman is a fight for the ages. Both deeply unpleasant people. Hope to hear endless wailing and gnashing of teeth for some time yet as they flail hopelessly in the political black hole they have created for themselves.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I can't think of any reason why a candidate wouldn't want to show an up-to-date photo of themselves, save (eg) for medical reason eg recent facial surgery which will heal.

I can think of two reasons:

1. A desire for privacy - most likely if the candidate is a paper candidate, who has stood just to provide a candidate in a no-hope seat, but does not wish for any publicity. In this case, the candidate will probably opt for no photo at all.
2. Vanity. I can think of a few friends who basically never take a photo of themselves without digitally enhancing it to make themselves look younger/more attractive/whatever. I suspect it's an age thing because in my experience it's almost invariably younger people who do that. Presumably those people grew up with the idea of digitally enhancing photos in a way the older generation didn't. Personally I don't like it - I instinctively feel that it's best for photos to reflect as accurately as possible what people look like in real life, but it seems a lot of people don't have the same attitude. And if some of those people are becoming candidates... well, you can guess the rest.

 

[nw1]

There’s royalties payable, you know

How much: £870.27 ?

 

[birchesgreen]

Vanity. I can think of a few friends who basically never take a photo of themselves without digitally enhancing it to make themselves look younger/more attractive/whatever. I suspect it's an age thing because in my experience it's almost invariably younger people who do that. Presumably those people grew up with the idea of digitally enhancing photos in a way the older generation didn't. Personally I don't like it - I instinctively feel that it's best for photos to reflect as accurately as possible what people look like in real life, but it seems a lot of people don't have the same attitude. And if some of those people are becoming candidates... well, you can guess the rest.

Reminds me of an ex-colleague. He was doing a mock-up for a new employee record system (as he was a designer) and used a thumb nail of himself in the mock-up. Now the thumbnail was tiny (about 100 pixels square) and was only going to be seen by a small number of people but he spent an entire afternoon editing the thumbnail.

 

[Cowley]

There’s royalties payable, you know

Yes I know. Worth it though I think.

 

[ainsworth74]

I don't think that scrapping it is much of an option at this stage. So many people are already migrated across, the IT systems are in place and finally functional to support it, and many of the systems and teams running the old benefits have been run down or decommissioned.

At this stage the only real option is probably to review what aspects of universal credit are driving poverty and foodbank usage. Smaller changes can be made to make initial payouts happen sooner, to be less rigorous about chasing down and forcing repayment of overpayments, and to increase some of the entitlements.

For sick and disabled people the most impactful thing that can be done to benefits is likely to be stopping the mind games around applications and qualification interviews.

Absolutely, if Labour had won in 2015 or even 2017 they probably could have reversed course (at great expense) and kept the existing system of legacy benefits but in 2024? We're too far gone. Tax Credits are basically gone and HMRC is in the process of closing that all down. Similarly the other legacy benefits are in their final throws at the DWP. The last remaining real hold out is Employment and Support Allowance but even that's increasingly chicken feed.

The real 'genius' of UC taking so long to get to a fit state for managed migration is that huge numbers have naturally migrated to it already.

It would be irresponsible to shutdown UC and attempt to bring back from the brink the legacy benefit system. The wasted money, time and effort would be extraordinary, quite apart from the money, time and effort required to set those old systems back up.

Far better to tackle the sharp edges within UC itself than pretend it's ten years ago.

The five week wait unless you get an advance (that have to repay) is tricky to manage. Why not make the first payment after identity checks have been completed? If they lie to get more than they're entitled to then recover the resulting overpayment. But most won't and therefore will smooth that edge. Increase the standard allowance substantially above inflation to reflect the catastrophic real terms loss of purchasing power of a UC award. Fix the treadmill of reassments for work capability so people with life long stable conditions aren't having to prove every two years or so that yes, funnily enough my crippling arthritis hasn't magically gotten better. Etc etc.

That's the fix not bringing the old system, which was itself riddled with flaws, back from the dead.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Yep, that is the thing. To take part in society you essentially have go have a driving license, passport or some other similar form of ID. Given we we are already in that situation, just make it easier for everyone and have an actual official ID!

Exactly, it seems surreal to have such a complicated mess of systems when a single universal ID card can solve everything. It's perfectly possible to have a single ID card issued to everyone legally in the UK with the right to live/work, and a single ID card makes it much easier to verify someone's identity.

Reading this - https://www.gov.uk/check-tenant-right-to-rent-documents/how-to-check - makes my brain hurt. Theoretically, I could be in the UK without documents proving my right to be there, as I could fly to Dublin on my Polish ID card and then simply cross the border into NI and then onwards. I'm a British citizen, so I'm not obliged to actually hold any ID. I can travel between NI and GB freely, so... what next?

Looking at this list: https://www.gov.uk/landlord-immigra...ncluding-mobile-homes/yes/british-or-irish/no - I don't have any of those documents. I could get a birth certificate, but I don't have a second document. So what next? As a British citizen, I'm effectively locked out of housing because I can't prove that I'm British. Insanity.

 

[birchesgreen]

I think if a political party (like the new government) decided to go for ID cards there would be a couple of years of froth and media induced anger then everyone would realise the sky hadn't fallen in and it wouldn't be an issue anymore other than to a few crazies.

So, maybe if Labour wins again in 5 years they could do it?

 

[gg1]

Looking at this list: https://www.gov.uk/landlord-immigra...ncluding-mobile-homes/yes/british-or-irish/no - I don't have any of those documents. I could get a birth certificate, but I don't have a second document. So what next? As a British citizen, I'm effectively locked out of housing because I can't prove that I'm British. Insanity.

That's bonkers. Despite being born in Britain and a British citizen, I only have one of those myself (driving license). I discovered a few years ago that I don't have a full birth certificate, I only have a 'short' certificate which isn't as widely accepted as proof of ID.

 

[Cross City]

I think if a political party (like the new government) decided to go for ID cards there would be a couple of years of froth and media induced anger then everyone would realise the sky hadn't fallen in and it wouldn't be an issue anymore other than to a few crazies.

So, maybe if Labour wins again in 5 years they could do it?

Tbh they could probably do it now under the auspice of immigration control and it probably wouldn't cause too much of an outrage.