Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[hexagon789]

This includes the present 805s which could possibly be approved for 125mph running without tilt.

They already are, just no relevant sections on the WCML passed operational yet.

 

[superalbs]

863xxx carriage. Green lights at every seat!

I went on one today that was rotating between blue, green, yellow and red, on all the reservation screens, for the entire journey.

Quality.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2024 ==

The 805s are certainly very heavy on the automated announcements.

Tie that with a very keen guard, and you end up with 6 minutes solid of talking on departure.

 

[800001]

I went on one today that was rotating between blue, green, yellow and red, on all the reservation screens, for the entire journey.

Quality.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2024 ==


Tie that with a very keen guard, and you end up with 6 minutes solid of talking on departure.

What’s the blue light for?

 

[superalbs]

What’s the blue light for?

No idea. It was just a blue light and a plain blue screen. Didn't show any information at any point in the journey.

 

[345 050]

I was ignoring the second because of location but I forgot all about the Birmingham to Holyhead, though Railperf seems to suggest the 805s are being held to a 110mph ceiling even where they could currently exceed that.

That holds with what I saw this afternoon, didn't get beyond 110.

More critically though, the service I got from HHD was supposed to be a double 805, but in the end ran as a 5-car due to 'the two units not playing nicely with each other' according to staff on board. Not exactly reassuring, and meant that the service departed 30 down, losing more time due to severe overcrowding - a lot of local journeys, not sure if another ATW service was cancelled as well this afternoon.

 

[Jack Hay]

That holds with what I saw this afternoon, didn't get beyond 110.

More critically though, the service I got from HHD was supposed to be a double 805, but in the end ran as a 5-car due to 'the two units not playing nicely with each other' according to staff on board. Not exactly reassuring, and meant that the service departed 30 down, losing more time due to severe overcrowding - a lot of local journeys, not sure if another ATW service was cancelled as well this afternoon.

It's a feature of the WCML timetable (inc. N.Wales) that some long distance trains have to carry local passengers too. There isn't a policy of separating them, presumably because it's cheaper not to. My particular bugbear is Crewe-Warrington-Wigan which is served only by Avanti (the only part of the WCML where this is the case) so the Pendos carry quite a lot of a short-hop local passengers. This includes even the London-Glasgow trains which you might think should not have to do this.

 

[Railperf]

It's a feature of the WCML timetable (inc. N.Wales) that some long distance trains have to carry local passengers too. There isn't a policy of separating them, presumably because it's cheaper not to. My particular bugbear is Crewe-Warrington-Wigan which is served only by Avanti (the only part of the WCML where this is the case) so the Pendos carry quite a lot of a short-hop local passengers. This includes even the London-Glasgow trains which you might think should not have to do this.

It has been mentioned before that we could do with a stopping service from Crewe to Wigan and Preston. So it seems the power supply issue north of Crewe is probably preventing additional services being offered.
And it isn't clear whether Crewe has the capacity to be a terminus for trains to/ from the North in terms of platform capacity and pathing.
In the meantime, analysis by the Railway Performance Society has revealed quite a high percentage of 805's running in diesel mode between Crewe and Holyhead were already running with an engine out in the first fortnight of operation with a slight improvement in the situation during the second fortnight. Frustratingly this is disappointing for brand new trains which have had several years to have had the systems tweaked and improved! It was reported that a set was even running on a single engine!

 

[800001]

It has been mentioned before that we could do with a stopping service from Crewe to Wigan and Preston. So it seems the power supply issue north of Crewe is probably preventing additional services being offered.
And it isn't clear whether Crewe has the capacity to be a terminus for trains to/ from the North in terms of platform capacity and pathing.
In the meantime, analysis by the Railway Performance Society has revealed quite a high percentage of 805's running in diesel mode between Crewe and Holyhead were already running with an engine out in the first fortnight of operation with a slight improvement in the situation during the second fortnight. Frustratingly this is disappointing for brand new trains which have had several years to have had the systems tweaked and improved! It was reported that a set was even running on a single engine!

If it was running on a single engine, then failures of the others happened while in service. (Not that it makes it any better).
As it would not be allowed off a depot with only 1 engine operational.

 

[Railperf]

No- one is claiming any set entered a diagram on one engine, but it certainly ended the day that way and IIRC was terminated before the end of the diagram.

 

[AndrewE]

It has been mentioned before that we could do with a stopping service from Crewe to Wigan and Preston. So it seems the power supply issue north of Crewe is probably preventing additional services being offered.

I think the 309s were considered for this, but I understand that something like the absence of central door locking stopped it. A second hourly Birmingham to Preston train would be a godsend. Not a "stopping service" as such, just duplicating the class 9s - although I guess they could call additionally at Newton-le-Willows or Earlestown. Maybe Hartford (and Leyland?) too if the unit's acceleration was good enough..?

I do remember a talk back in APT days in which it was said that Warrington to Wigan (Standish) was the critical pinch point for WCML capacity, which is why the Whelley line was being safeguarded. MGR Freight has gone now, so maybe finding paths wouldn't be such a problem.

 

[Toby268]

No- one is claiming any set entered a diagram on one engine, but it certainly ended the day that way and IIRC was terminated before the end of the diagram.

Anymore than 1 GU out and it’s a failure.

 

[800001]

No- one is claiming any set entered a diagram on one engine, but it certainly ended the day that way and IIRC was terminated before the end of the diagram.

And I never said it did, did I?
Mearly stating a fact, and not disputing at all that it was on one engine!

 

[Railperf]

I think the 309s were considered for this, but I understand that something like the absence of central door locking stopped it. A second hourly Birmingham to Preston train would be a godsend. Not a "stopping service" as such, just duplicating the class 9s - although I guess they could call additionally at Newton-le-Willows or Earlestown. Maybe Hartford (and Leyland?) too if the unit's acceleration was good enough..?

I do remember a talk back in APT days in which it was said that Warrington to Wigan (Standish) was the critical pinch point for WCML capacity, which is why the Whelley line was being safeguarded. MGR Freight has gone now, so maybe finding paths wouldn't be such a problem.

If there isn't enough electrical power to support Avanti's proposed 2nd Liverpool service, then that clearly limits any additional electric services you might wish to run. As it is veering slightly OT is this worth separating into a new topic?

 

[800001]

If there isn't enough electrical power to support Avanti's proposed 2nd Liverpool service, then that clearly limits any additional electric services you might wish to run. As it is veering slightly OT is this worth separating into a new topic?

All depends how much power 730s utilise versus Avanti 807? Maybe sufficient for 730s

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Another variation for 1D80 today (0530 Birmingham-Holyhead, double 805 ECS from Oxley, then forming 0853 Holyhead-Euston).
Often it is cancelled throughout, sometimes it reaches Crewe before being cancelled westwards.
Today it was ECS Oxley to Stafford to pick up its diagram there at 0604.
This might be the first time a service 805 has run via the Stafford Road curve at Wolverhampton - they normally are booked to reverse in Wolverhampton station.
So presumably the train is in reverse formation.
At least it has delivered a service west of Crewe today.

 

[Huntergreed]

I took my first ride on one of these today from Rugby up to Birmingham New Street.

Generally, a significant improvement on the voyagers. Window alignment is very good, the acceleration is excellent (yet very smooth starts from stations) and a generally more pleasant ambience than the voyagers.

That said, the barrage of automated announcements is certainly rather unpleasant. Why did they decide to make them so loud? The ceiling is noticeably vibrating due to the excessive volume. They also seem much longer than necessary. This was particularly noticeable on the approach into Birmingham International where we received a detailed account of where to go for the NEC and the Airport. Quite why the TM decided to repeat the entire announcement manually I have no idea.

Turn down and tone down the announcements and I have very little to complain about.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Facilities on the 14:48 Holyhead to London Euston due 18:35.
Will be formed of 7 coaches instead of 10 between Holyhead and Chester

First 807 in traffic?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Will be formed of 7 coaches instead of 10 between Holyhead and Chester

First 807 in traffic?

An 807 couldn't operate between Holyhead and Chester, it has no diesel or batteries.

RTT seems to indicate it's 221103 + 221108 but it may well only be one of them if a short form has happened.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it's a double Voyager is this because the back 3 coaches are manually locked out as far as Chester due to short platforms?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

If it's a double Voyager is this because the back 3 coaches are manually locked out as far as Chester due to short platforms?

Most days this runs as a double Voyager and I've never seen that message until now, but that seems like pretty spot on logic.

 

[Trackman]

I took my first ride on one of these today from Rugby up to Birmingham New Street.

Generally, a significant improvement on the voyagers. Window alignment is very good

Not been on one yet, but the windows look a lot bigger than Voyagers, is this the case?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not been on one yet, but the windows look a lot bigger than Voyagers, is this the case?

Wider but not deeper (being spaced for First Class they're very similar in size to the windows on loco hauled/HST Mk3s, but a bit lower down). Overall they feel more spacious, though, as they don't have a tilt profile.

 

[800001]

Facilities on the 14:48 Holyhead to London Euston due 18:35.
Will be formed of 7 coaches instead of 10 between Holyhead and Chester

First 807 in traffic?

As others have said an 807 is all electric, and none have been accepted by Avanti.

All built 807s are currently at the Hitachi factory.

 

[DaveyJones]

Another variation for 1D80 today (0530 Birmingham-Holyhead, double 805 ECS from Oxley, then forming 0853 Holyhead-Euston).
Often it is cancelled throughout, sometimes it reaches Crewe before being cancelled westwards.
Today it was ECS Oxley to Stafford to pick up its diagram there at 0604.
This might be the first time a service 805 has run via the Stafford Road curve at Wolverhampton - they normally are booked to reverse in Wolverhampton station.
So presumably the train is in reverse formation.
At least it has delivered a service west of Crewe today.

There is a possession which prevents the Empty stock from reaching Birmingham New Street.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It's a feature of the WCML timetable (inc. N.Wales) that some long distance trains have to carry local passengers too. There isn't a policy of separating them, presumably because it's cheaper not to. My particular bugbear is Crewe-Warrington-Wigan which is served only by Avanti (the only part of the WCML where this is the case) so the Pendos carry quite a lot of a short-hop local passengers. This includes even the London-Glasgow trains which you might think should not have to do this.

Most London-Glasgow trains are first stop Warrington, so they won't be carrying passengers from Crewe.

 

[Trackman]

Wider but not deeper (being spaced for First Class they're very similar in size to the windows on loco hauled/HST Mk3s, but a bit lower down). Overall they feel more spacious, though, as they don't have a tilt profile.

They look deeper to me, but hey-ho.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Most London-Glasgow trains are first stop Warrington, so they won't be carrying passengers from Crewe.

The via Birmingham ones (hourly to Glasgow/Edinburgh) do stop at Stafford and Crewe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They look deeper to me, but hey-ho.

Than Voyagers? Definitely not. Voyager windows are massive vertically. Are you thinking of Pendolinos, or maybe 222s? (The latter, despite being a similar body, have windows that are smaller vertically than 220/221).

 

[Travellin’man]

Facilities on the 14:48 Holyhead to London Euston due 18:35.
Will be formed of 7 coaches instead of 10 between Holyhead and Chester

First 807 in traffic?

I was on this yesterday. Exactly the same. A very keen guard kept advising at all stops that coaches XYZ (whichever they are) would "join us" at Chester due to the short platform at Flint.

 

[Boodiggy]

As others have said an 807 is all electric, and none have been accepted by Avanti.

All built 807s are currently at the Hitachi factory.

I see there is an 807 coming to Oxley from Merchants Park on Thursday..