UK General Election 2024

[Cowley]

Why?

Sunlit uplands, stonking majority and all that maybe?

The thing is, he completely let himself down just in the time that he was actually in office. One can only imagine what amount of other political disasters he would have got himself into by now?

 

[D6130]

Sunlit uplands, stonking majority and all that maybe?

The thing is, he completely let himself down just in the time that he was actually in office. One can only imagine what amount of other political disasters he would have got himself into by now?

My thoughts exactly. That's why I couldn't understand @aavm 's point, as I think that had Boris remained party leader and PM the Tories would have been even deeper in the excrement than they are now.

 

[edwin_m]

My thoughts exactly. That's why I couldn't understand @aavm 's point, as I think that had Boris remained party leader and PM the Tories would have been even deeper in the excrement than they are now.

With 18 more months to play with (literally), Boris would most likely have done more damage than 18 months of Sunak. However, if he’d stayed we wouldn’t have had Truss as leader either, so it might not have been overall quite as bad for the party or the country.

But if he’d remained an MP and returned as PM in recent months, that would most likely have been the worst outcome. Once he shifted from harmless buffoon as London mayor to his attitudes and behaviour when PM, he was only actually widely preferred when the alternative was Corbyn.

 

[takno]

With 18 more months to play with (literally), Boris would most likely have done more damage than 18 months of Sunak. However, if he’d stayed we wouldn’t have had Truss as leader either, so it might not have been overall quite as bad for the party or the country.

But if he’d remained an MP and returned as PM in recent months, that would most likely have been the worst outcome. Once he shifted from harmless buffoon as London mayor to his attitudes and behaviour when PM, he was only actually widely preferred when the alternative was Corbyn.

In a choice between being humiliated and mistreated by Boris the school bully or driven off a cliff by Corbyn the deranged geography teacher, most people chose the option they felt they might survive.

In a choice between an increasing savage attack from an older and less wise bully, or being bored to sleep by Starmer the amiable but dull history teacher, most people would choose to skip the beating

 

[AlterEgo]

Just reported on sky news live TV feed that he has defended his comments from February relating to Tate defending male culture.

Farage is a very grim specimen of a man.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2024 ==

Why?

Boris for all his failings was a more talented politician than Sunak, who is incidentally not a politician at all. A complete NPC of a man.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

She would probably be Louise Haigh as the current shadow transport secretary.

The recent rail proposals from Labour (fronted by Louise Haigh), talked about actions on Day 1 which would coordinate the government-owned parts of the railway.
That would include Network Rail, ORR and the four OLR-managed TOCs.
I don't think they expected to have to implement their plans quite so early.
We'll soon see if they have a well-thought through plan.
Otherwise they will flounder for months trying to get a grip on rail finances, before they make any operational decisions.
The first issues will be how to deal with the early-terminating TOC contracts, and whether to run with some version of the draft Tory GBR legislation, or write new.
And Starmer/Reeves in-trays will be bulging with more urgent decisions to make than any on rail.
The honeymoon period will be very short.

 

[Strathclyder]

Anyone who had been following him would already know his allegiance, but now Farage's stance on Russia-Ukraine is out there for all to see:

Nigel Farage criticised for saying West provoked Ukraine war

The Reform UK leader told the BBC that "of course" the war was President Vladimir Putin's fault.

www.bbc.co.uk

This is about as surprising as the sun setting in the west. Doesn't make it any less reprehensible of course.

An odious excuse of a human being, between this, his comments on Andrew Tate (immediately feels the need for a long hot shower) and everything else.

 

[dangie]

Firstly let me say I don’t like Nigel Farage. End of.

However I do think he’s being unfairly treated for his comments regarding Putin’s war with Ukraine. He has been criticised for suggesting the West "provoked" Russia's invasion of Ukraine by expanding the European Union and Nato military alliance eastwards. It should have been obvious to anyone with an iota of sense that Putin wouldn’t like this and ultimately would try to do something about it. Russia is paranoid about its security.

One only has to read the excellent ‘Power/Prisoners of Geography’ books by Tim Marshall, where he predicted this war would happen. The Western World leaders also knew it would happen, and it has.

Other political parties are obviously going to use his latest comments to attack and discredit him, when in this instance they know he’s correct.

 

[nw1]

In a choice between being humiliated and mistreated by Boris the school bully or driven off a cliff by Corbyn the deranged geography teacher, most people chose the option they felt they might survive.

In a choice between an increasing savage attack from an older and less wise bully, or being bored to sleep by Starmer the amiable but dull history teacher, most people would choose to skip the beating

Good analogy in some ways, but for the first I'd change it a little: I'd place it as the choice between being humiliated and mistreated by Boris the school bully or taking a car ride with Corbyn the geography teacher, whom Boris' mates said might drive you over a cliff (he probably wouldn't, but many people chose not to take that risk).

 

[52290]

Firstly let me say I don’t like Nigel Farage. End of.

However I do think he’s being unfairly treated for his comments regarding Putin’s war with Ukraine. He has been criticised for suggesting the West "provoked" Russia's invasion of Ukraine by expanding the European Union and Nato military alliance eastwards. It should have been obvious to anyone with an iota of sense that Putin wouldn’t like this and ultimately would try to do something about it. Russia is paranoid about its security.

One only has to read the excellent ‘Power/Prisoners of Geography’ books by Tim Marshall, where he predicted this war would happen. The Western World leaders also knew it would happen, and it has.

Other political parties are obviously going to use his latest comments to attack and discredit him, when in this instance they know he’s correct.

Peter Hitchens has expressed a similar view in the Mail on Sunday. I don't subscribe to this journal but I know someone who does.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Just got approached by the Reform candidate as I walked down Northallerton high street. He looks like a thug in a cheap suit about to go to court, and was unable to answer a couple of pretty basic questions I asked him. Both times he tried to turn the subject to immigration. Deeply unimpressive

 

[Howardh]

The recent rail proposals from Labour (fronted by Louise Haigh), talked about actions on Day 1 which would coordinate the government-owned parts of the railway.
That would include Network Rail, ORR and the four OLR-managed TOCs.
I don't think they expected to have to implement their plans quite so early.
We'll soon see if they have a well-thought through plan.
Otherwise they will flounder for months trying to get a grip on rail finances, before they make any operational decisions.
The first issues will be how to deal with the early-terminating TOC contracts, and whether to run with some version of the draft Tory GBR legislation, or write new.
And Starmer/Reeves in-trays will be bulging with more urgent decisions to make than any on rail.
The honeymoon period will be very short.

Much as I'm pleased to see Lumo and, hopefully later next year, Virgin, taking on the TOC's that we currently have, puts me in a dilemma, I want the railways back under one roof so we can have simpler ticketing, no "can't use another TOC when cancelled" nonsense and so on; yet I like these independents. Maybe in the great scheme of things they are much smaller than a current TOC? I don't know...!!

 

[takno]

Much as I'm pleased to see Lumo and, hopefully later next year, Virgin, taking on the TOC's that we currently have, puts me in a dilemma, I want the railways back under one roof so we can have simpler ticketing, no "can't use another TOC when cancelled" nonsense and so on; yet I like these independents. Maybe in the great scheme of things they are much smaller than a current TOC? I don't know...!!

Tbh the main things I like about Lumo are the seats, and the fact that the pricing is slightly less deranged. Both could easily be done under a reasonably well-run national operator. Arguably allowing a manageable number of OA operations still works under a national operator though, possibly better.

 

[Howardh]

Tbh the main things I like about Lumo are the seats, and the fact that the pricing is slightly less deranged. Both could easily be done under a reasonably well-run national operator. Arguably allowing a manageable number of OA operations still works under a national operator though, possibly better.

Yes, the same system as vintage rail tours (?), although the OA operators would be larger, but not large enough to concern mainstream. maybe a limited % of timetabled trains could be Open Access?

On the other hand, if these OA's are successful, such as the possible Preston/Bolton/Victoria or Piccadilly(??)/London then why not have that route under National Rail?

I inserted ?? because I saw on one of Geoff Marshall's videos that the plan for Virgin was either Rochdale to London via Victoria/Eccles; but the alternative Bolton to London was also shown to be via Victoria which would require reversing. Would that be Virgin's plan, which would follow the Rochdale/Vic/Eccles onwards plan or had Geoff made a small error on his diagram? Think it's the former to avoid the corridor and Piccadilly?

Apologies if this is posted elsewhere! Diagram of proposed Virgin lines from Preston to Euston via Bolton and Victoria




Here's the full video

 

[deltic]

Firstly let me say I don’t like Nigel Farage. End of.

However I do think he’s being unfairly treated for his comments regarding Putin’s war with Ukraine. He has been criticised for suggesting the West "provoked" Russia's invasion of Ukraine by expanding the European Union and Nato military alliance eastwards. It should have been obvious to anyone with an iota of sense that Putin wouldn’t like this and ultimately would try to do something about it. Russia is paranoid about its security.

One only has to read the excellent ‘Power/Prisoners of Geography’ books by Tim Marshall, where he predicted this war would happen. The Western World leaders also knew it would happen, and it has.

Other political parties are obviously going to use his latest comments to attack and discredit him, when in this instance they know he’s correct.

The countries that joined Nato did so because they have been invaded by Russia in the past and fully expected that it might happen again. Sweden and Finland joined Nato because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Countries joined the EU for economic reasons and have reaped the benefits of the Single Market. If Ireland was to sign up to a free trade/cooperation treaty with China and encouraged Chinese companies to invest there would you approve of the UK invading Ireland?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I inserted ?? because I saw on one of Geoff Marshall's videos that the plan for Virgin was either Rochdale to London via Victoria/Eccles; but the alternatibe Bolton to London was alsow shown to be via Victoria which would require reversing. Would that be Virgin's plan, or had Geoff made a small error on his diagram?

Based on their application, the via Bolton trains aren't going via Victoria, that's an error.

 

[Howardh]

Based on their application, the via Bolton trains aren't going via Victoria, that's an error.

That would make sense as reversing @ Vic and going through Eccles adds time, which would render the route not much better time-wise than changing at Picc. Thanks! maybe Geoff should be asked to correct so there are no misinterpretations!

 

[jon0844]

Is this a major tactical error by Farage? I mean, I know he wants the votes of the hard-right but being a little bit ambivalent on Putin is a bit much even for them.

Is it though? MAGA supporters love Putin. He's a dictator who can get rid of opposition (they'd love to do that). Putin has very similar views on non-white people, LGBTQ+ issues and so on.

Trump loves Putin too. He'd love to be like Putin.

Oh and I am pretty sure the MAGA crowd love Andrew Tate too.

Reform seems to be trying to create the same sort of cult here too, especially with the amount of MAGA profile bots supporting Reform and comparisons already being suggested to electoral fraud (i.e. the only reason Reform is not going to win is because people are modifying votes at polling stations, and postal votes are all fake... yes, these things ARE being said already).

I think Nigel will ultimately flounder because, like the MAGA movement, it isn't as big as we think thanks to social media and how so many people love following them because they're often very entertaining. They think they're a bigger crowd than they are, and hopefully why Reform isn't going to go anywhere. My main fear is Nigel becomes MP, because that's his way into the Conservatives. I don't really care about anyone else.

 

[edwin_m]

Firstly let me say I don’t like Nigel Farage. End of.

However I do think he’s being unfairly treated for his comments regarding Putin’s war with Ukraine. He has been criticised for suggesting the West "provoked" Russia's invasion of Ukraine by expanding the European Union and Nato military alliance eastwards. It should have been obvious to anyone with an iota of sense that Putin wouldn’t like this and ultimately would try to do something about it. Russia is paranoid about its security.

One only has to read the excellent ‘Power/Prisoners of Geography’ books by Tim Marshall, where he predicted this war would happen. The Western World leaders also knew it would happen, and it has.

Other political parties are obviously going to use his latest comments to attack and discredit him, when in this instance they know he’s correct.

The countries that joined Nato did so because they have been invaded by Russia in the past and fully expected that it might happen again. Sweden and Finland joined Nato because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Countries joined the EU for economic reasons and have reaped the benefits of the Single Market. If Ireland was to sign up to a free trade/cooperation treaty with China and encouraged Chinese companies to invest there would you approve of the UK invading Ireland?

Anyone who argues that Putin was provoked by NATO expansion should logically also be arguing that this in turn was provoked by suspicion of Russia in general and Putin in particular. Not to mention that it’s arguing to deny the freedoms and lifestyle enjoyed in the UK and Western countries extending to those further east.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2024 ==

Is it though? MAGA supporters love Putin. He's a dictator who can get rid of opposition (they'd love to do that). Putin has very similar views on non-white people, LGBTQ+ issues and so on.

Trump loves Putin too. He'd love to be like Putin.

Oh and I am pretty sure the MAGA crowd love Andrew Tate too.

Reform seems to be trying to create the same sort of cult here too, especially with the amount of MAGA profile bots supporting Reform and comparisons already being suggested to electoral fraud (i.e. the only reason Reform is not going to win is because people are modifying votes at polling stations, and postal votes are all fake... yes, these things ARE being said already).

I think Nigel will ultimately flounder because, like the MAGA movement, it isn't as big as we think thanks to social media and how so many people love following them because they're often very entertaining. They think they're a bigger crowd than they are, and hopefully why Reform isn't going to go anywhere. My main fear is Nigel becomes MP, because that's his way into the Conservatives. I don't really care about anyone else.

I wonder if Farage’s fascination with Trump is letting him down here. I suspect the part of the British public supporting MAGA is voting for Reform already and the vastly larger proportion are opposed.

 

[Howardh]

Anyone who argues that Putin was provoked by NATO expansion should logically also be arguing that this in turn was provoked by suspicion of Russia in general and Putin in particular. Not to mention that it’s arguing to deny the freedoms and lifestyle enjoyed in the UK and Western countries extending to those further east.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2024 ==


I wonder if Farage’s fascination with Trump is letting him down here. I suspect the part of the British public supporting MAGA is voting for Reform already and the vastly larger proportion are opposed.

Trump; Andrew Tate - judge a man by the friends he has....????

 

[dosxuk]

My main fear is Nigel becomes MP, because that's his way into the Conservatives. I don't really care about anyone else.

Farage doesn't need to become a Reform MP to be invited to join the Tories, the Tory right wing are already falling over themselves trying to get him on their side.

 

[Howardh]

Farage doesn't need to become a Reform MP to be invited to join the Tories, the Tory right wing are already falling over themselves trying to get him on their side.

How much of the Tory Right will there be left in parliament next month?

 

[D1537]

Just got approached by the Reform candidate as I walked down Northallerton high street. He looks like a thug in a cheap suit about to go to court, and was unable to answer a couple of pretty basic questions I asked him. Both times he tried to turn the subject to immigration. Deeply unimpressive

Ours just rambles about stopping the boats on local Facebook forums. Even when it was pointed out to her that we're 150 miles from Dover (and, indeed, 70 miles from the sea in any direction) and people were far more concerned about the cost of living, the NHS and so on, she simply kept on drivelling on. When she posts now most of the reactions are the "laugh" emoji.

 

[jon0844]

Farage doesn't need to become a Reform MP to be invited to join the Tories, the Tory right wing are already falling over themselves trying to get him on their side.

If he can use his notoriety to become an MP after so many failed attempts, his entry into the Conservative Party is made easier. He can defect, not stand down for a new local election, and then seek to become leader of the opposition - and work from there.

Or he just joins the party and seeks to fight somewhere when an opportunity arises and get in that way. I think there's a greater chance of there being some pushback that way, and it isn't as quick.

I am not sure he'll win though. I do hope even the people of Clacton (which has a pretty high number of white people who share his views) see through him.

 

[Gloster]

How much of the Tory Right will there be left in parliament next month?

Quite possibly a large enough majority of the group to have a decisive effect on the what path the party follows in the future. Even if they do fall to third or fourth place in the House, they still have a large party organisation and lots of backers.

 

[jon0844]

I wonder if Farage’s fascination with Trump is letting him down here. I suspect the part of the British public supporting MAGA is voting for Reform already and the vastly larger proportion are opposed.

It's unlikely as many people here support Putin as in the USA, where it's a long way away and in some ways helps the USA because Putin is threatening Europe. A destabilised Europe (and EU) could be advantageous.

Even Brexiteers probably aren't quite so happy to see a threat to Europe. The EU perhaps (let's remember that many people behind Brexit were banking on an impact to the EU), but not Russia potentially moving westward.

But, hey, some people believe anything they're told so if they are told by Farage that Putin is strong, powerful and a good leader then they'll quite possibly believe it and repeat it themselves.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have a relative who lives in what would typically be a safe Tory seat. He hates reform. Usually votes Lib Dem. Labour are nowhere in this seat. Tory mp is not a head banger afaik. I wonder if he should vote Tory to limit damage from Reform?

Interested in people’s thoughts.

I doubt he’s voted Tory in the last 40+ years.

 

[D1537]

I have a relative who lives in what would typically be a safe Tory seat. He hates reform. Usually votes Lib Dem. Labour are nowhere in this seat. Tory mp is not a head banger afaik. I wonder if he should vote Tory to limit damage from Reform?

Interested in people’s thoughts.

I doubt he’s voted Tory in the last 40+ years.

Tell him to have a look at the GetVoting website. Whilst he doesn't have to take its advice (it tells you who to tactically vote for to remove Tories), they do have up to date polling for each constituency, so he can decide what might be for the best. Hopefully for him the tactical voting recommendation is Lib Dem!

GetVoting

 

[Busaholic]

I wonder if Farage’s fascination with Trump is letting him down here. I suspect the part of the British public supporting MAGA is voting for Reform already and the vastly larger proportion are opposed.

I'd love to think so: anything that deflates him and his mob has to be good. His 'honesty' will, I think, now cost him potential votes and his party's stock will only decline until Election Day. If I was a betting man I'd definitely have a punt against his becoming an MP.

 

[jon0844]

I have a relative who lives in what would typically be a safe Tory seat. He hates reform. Usually votes Lib Dem. Labour are nowhere in this seat. Tory mp is not a head banger afaik. I wonder if he should vote Tory to limit damage from Reform?

Interested in people’s thoughts.

I doubt he’s voted Tory in the last 40+ years.

I would hope people are voting strategically, and there are many websites that will tell you (and others) who that would be. Obviously he can vote however he wants, but that's the smartest move to effect change.

Usually the risk of dividing votes is with Labour, LibDems, Greens etc, but now of course the Tories have their own threat.

I have noticed that this week, the Tories are adopting a quite clever strategy of saying 'Sure, we're not going to form a Government, but you liked your local MP didn't you? S/He's done so much. So why not vote for him/her to continue helping you locally'. Many are removing any mention of being Tory from literature or their social media posts and suggesting they're now independent.

They obviously hope people will do that up and down the country and they'll win. It's an interesting strategy, and ultimately the best they have now given I can't see anything else working.

It also goes to show just how toxic the Tories have become, although it isn't the first time candidates have played down their party association.