Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[childwallblues]

Interesting…

Not the Northern ones. The conversions are the es GW units.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Not the Northern ones. The conversions are the es GW units.

Presumably the units which were moved from Long Marston to Doncaster a couple of weeks ago.
this is presumably a different project to the one involving the "Brodies pair" roaming around Glasgow for the last few weeks.

 

[Razorblades]

Those ex-GW units are seemingly roaming round looking for a problem to which they can be a solution.

 

[Mordac]

Those ex-GW units are seemingly roaming round looking for a problem to which they can be a solution.

I think the canning industry could help.

 

[b0b]

The Glasgow ones make some sense, to cover partial electrification to East Kilbride and to deal with the Ayr drama.

 

[Nym]

The Glasgow ones make some sense, to cover partial electrification to East Kilbride and to deal with the Ayr drama.

Nothing to do with Porterbrook investing significantly in Brodies

 

[Southsider]

The Glasgow ones make some sense, to cover partial electrification to East Kilbride and to deal with the Ayr drama.

East Kilbride will be full electrification and the Ayr drama is almost over.

 

[TurboMan]

Yes APCO will be provided at Stalybridge.

Not for 769s surely?

 

[Nym]

Correct. None of the 769s have APCO…

 

[GhostManDN91]

I remember about 2 weeks ago I was on a Class 769 from Wigan Wallgate to Bolton where it uses diesel engines for that section. The train was held for about 2 mins at a red signal just before Lostock Junction where I'm sure there is live OHLE before joining the mainline. What I don't understand is why the 769 couldn't have switched to electric mode there and did it at Bolton instead?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I remember about 2 weeks ago I was on a Class 769 from Wigan Wallgate to Bolton where it uses diesel engines for that section. The train was held for about 2 mins at a red signal just before Lostock Junction where I'm sure there is live OHLE before joining the mainline. What I don't understand is why the 769 couldn't have switched to electric mode there and did it at Bolton instead?

They are only allowed to switch at stations.

 

[scrapy]

I remember about 2 weeks ago I was on a Class 769 from Wigan Wallgate to Bolton where it uses diesel engines for that section. The train was held for about 2 mins at a red signal just before Lostock Junction where I'm sure there is live OHLE before joining the mainline. What I don't understand is why the 769 couldn't have switched to electric mode there and did it at Bolton instead?

The OHLE is only live on the down line (towards Wigan for a short distance) in case of a wrong route taken at Lostock junction by an electric train. Whilst OHLE is being put in place between Lostock junction and Wigan, non of it is electrified yet*.

* Disclaimer: it should be treated as live at all times.

 

[Gricer99]

The diversion sign in Highfield Road near the cottages is (yet as of last night, the bridge access is unhindered)

 

[Wyrleybart]

They are only allowed to switch at stations.

Quite.
This is red tape England, not mainland Europe where OLE is more robust and actually used to save diesel emissions.

 

[380101]

East Kilbride will be full electrification and the Ayr drama is almost over.

Ayr drama all over. Full electric service has resumed.

The "Brodie" 769s have been tested extensively on all the GSW routes (Stranraer excluded at the moment) currently operated by a class 156. Initial chat from people involved is that they outperform the 156s on all routes.

 

[Richard Scott]

Quite.
This is red tape England, not mainland Europe where OLE is more robust and actually used to save diesel emissions.

Without wanting to go off topic, plenty of flimsy OHLE in Europe and also examples of running diesel under wires for extended periods.
At least trains like this are allowing emissions reductions by making use of wires along some of their route. It may not be ideal but better than a diesel throughout.

 

[thealexweb]

Quite.
This is red tape England, not mainland Europe where OLE is more robust and actually used to save diesel emissions.

In the initial Porterbrook PR paperwork they claimed they would be able to change power on the move. We went from that to changing when stationary to then changing only in stations to changing certain only. Sad really.

 

[AMD]

Quite.
This is red tape England, not mainland Europe where OLE is more robust and actually used to save diesel emissions.

There is also the pragmatic, reality of operations - these majority of issues that have arisen with these units since introduction in 2021 have involved the power changeover. If there is a risk to operations it's better to be at a station where passengers can be detrained or managed if a problem arises.

 

[The exile]

There is also the pragmatic, reality of operations - these majority of issues that have arisen with these units since introduction in 2021 have involved the power changeover. If there is a risk to operations it's better to be at a station where passengers can be detrained or managed if a problem arises.

And where, if necessary, other things can get round them.

 

[plugwash]

If platform 3 is blocked at bolton, can a southbond service run through platform 4? The track layout on tracksy suggests it's possible but I know sometimes things allowed by the track layout aren't allowed by the signalling.

 

[AM9]

Ayr drama all over. Full electric service has resumed.

The "Brodie" 769s have been tested extensively on all the GSW routes (Stranraer excluded at the moment) currently operated by a class 156. Initial chat from people involved is that they outperform the 156s on all routes.

That's interesting considering the insistence of many here (before they were introduced) that their performance would fall below 150s/156s. They are also more comfortable and much quieter than the deafening thrash of the Sprinters. One question, - what sort of gradients are they likely to encounter on the GSW routes?

 

[thealexweb]

If platform 3 is blocked at bolton, can a southbond service run through platform 4? The track layout on tracksy suggests it's possible but I know sometimes things allowed by the track layout aren't allowed by the signalling.

Yes, all platforms at Bolton can be used bi-directionally. The situation you describe has occurred many times.

 

[CAF397]

Yes, all platforms at Bolton can be used bi-directionally. The situation you describe has occurred many times.

Whilst every through platform has a signal at both ends, platform 3 is not fully bidirectional for Chorley-bound departures, and Platform 5 is not available for southbound through services, so not every platform is truly bi-directional.

In your reply, it is. Southbound departures from Lostock Jn can only use 3/4.

Northbound (non-Darwen) departures from Salford Crescent can only use 4/5.

 

[380101]

That's interesting considering the insistence of many here (before they were introduced) that their performance would fall below 150s/156s. They are also more comfortable and much quieter than the deafening thrash of the Sprinters. One question, - what sort of gradients are they likely to encounter on the GSW routes?

Leaving Barrhead going south it's a 3.5mile climb of between 1 in 67 - 70. This is the steepest part of the route to Kilmarnock. Brodie Engineering were contracted by Porterbrook to carry out reliability and performance improvements to the 769s, and it appears they have been successful.

769 002 is also now at Brodie Engineering in Kilmarnock - staff pictured in front of it on Armed Forces day last week - pic off Brodie Engineering LinkedIn page

 

[AM9]

Leaving Barrhead going south it's a 3.5mile climb of between 1 in 67 - 70. This is the steepest part of the route to Kilmarnock. Brodie Engineering were contracted by Porterbrook to carry out reliability and performance improvements to the 769s, and it appears they have been successful.

769 002 is also now at Brodie Engineering in Kilmarnock - staff pictured in front of it on Armed Forces day last week - pic off Brodie Engineering LinkedIn page

View attachment 161216

That's encouraging. The 769s, operating as diesel electrics aren't that short of torque so even if their progress is slow, they will usually get to the top, (the 319s were designed to cope with a standing start into a 1:27 in the Thameslink core) so the motors can obviously cope with the additional heat that a much more gentle 1:60+ creates. From posts here, I recall that there were issues particularly on the Welsh valley lines where a long drag up from Heath station could result in some engine overheating issues, so maybe Brodie addressed the prime mover cooling durability.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

769 002 is also now at Brodie Engineering in Kilmarnock - staff pictured in front of it on Armed Forces day last week - pic off Brodie Engineering LinkedIn page

Is that another Welsh Class 769 behind them, or is that something else?

 

[Class15]

Is that another Welsh Class 769 behind them, or is that something else?

I think it may be another coach from the same unit.

 

[diligentdave]

Leaving Barrhead going south it's a 3.5mile climb of between 1 in 67 - 70. This is the steepest part of the route to Kilmarnock. Brodie Engineering were contracted by Porterbrook to carry out reliability and performance improvements to the 769s, and it appears they have been successful.

769 002 is also now at Brodie Engineering in Kilmarnock - staff pictured in front of it on Armed Forces day last week - pic off Brodie Engineering LinkedIn page

View attachment 161216

Is that another Welsh Class 769 behind them, or is that something else?

That is just 2 vehicles of that unit. I was actually standing behind the camera (person) when that picture was taken.

 

[Blindtraveler]

So are they seriously going to trial these on Kilmarnock and perhaps Carlisle services
I think there'll be a huge success

 

[david l]

There is also the pragmatic, reality of operations - these majority of issues that have arisen with these units since introduction in 2021 have involved the power changeover. If there is a risk to operations it's better to be at a station where passengers can be detrained or managed if a problem arises.

Agree, but when the Lostock Jn-Wigan Station Junc is complete, where will the changeover for Man Ox Road-Southport services be (most booked 769 but many 150/6 used because of 769 unavailability), as from memory they didn't stop at Ince - even when Ince was open? Would it be Hindley, as leaving it at Bolton would make a nonsense of the electrification which then would only be of any use for WNW-Stalybridge services, or is there a master plan for 2025 onwards when the lease on the 769's was originally up (did hear a rumour now extended to 2027)??