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Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

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800001

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But they have no visibility of the train whilst the doors are open, doesn't matter what set of doors they're at.

Maybe they are were all situated at the same doors for the 4 trains I rode, I can't explain that.

At the end of the day, the driver is responsible for the interlock and no one is trying to board as doors are closing.
I never said they did have visibility, merely replied to you to say the Train manager does move about and does check tickets on all trains I’ve been on. (maybe I’ve just been lucky and had a guard doing the job they are paid to do?)

When doors are closing driver will be watching, exactly like a driver does on a DOO service.

As someone above has stated the role of train guard has evolved at Merseyrail.
 
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Skie

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I was asking my friend who is a guard at ME about revenue duties, as I remember the original agreement saying they would be issued machines etc. This COULD just be messroom gossip, however he said they are supposed to be getting devices which can scan smartcards and check whether a bank card has been tapped in before travel - presumably for some sort of pay as you go contactless system which doesnt yet exist. He also said there will be no arguing on their part, the device checks whether a card has been "validated" or "tapped in" and reports it back somewhere else and any irregularities would be dealt with behind the scenes. Again - dont quote me, thats just what he said theyve been told.
It'll be almost exactly like the TFL process. Tap a bank card and the overnight reconciliation will work out if the card was 'tapped-in' prior to the revenue check tap or not. If not, then a maximum fare is charged. The person doing the tapping gets no indication for contactless taps. For Oyster/ITSO cards, because taps are actually recorded on the card itself as the start of a journey, the device can indicate this, but policy on Merseyrail might be to handle it via their office based employees who will be able to see the details of the card holder and write out for a penalty fare. Or just charge a maximum fare if the card has credit/payment details attached.

Should make ticket checks significantly easier, as you say the current situation means they're largely pointless. Still hard to deal with those determined to not pay if they won't tap a card or show a ticket.
 

WirralLine

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It'll be almost exactly like the TFL process. Tap a bank card and the overnight reconciliation will work out if the card was 'tapped-in' prior to the revenue check tap or not. If not, then a maximum fare is charged. The person doing the tapping gets no indication for contactless taps. For Oyster/ITSO cards, because taps are actually recorded on the card itself as the start of a journey, the device can indicate this, but policy on Merseyrail might be to handle it via their office based employees who will be able to see the details of the card holder and write out for a penalty fare. Or just charge a maximum fare if the card has credit/payment details attached.

Should make ticket checks significantly easier, as you say the current situation means they're largely pointless. Still hard to deal with those determined to not pay if they won't tap a card or show a ticket.
That makes sense, thanks for clarifying. If I remember rightly the offer prior to the agreed one said guards would be trained to issue penalty fares, but it was rejected, removed, and accepted.

In other news, only 7x 777 faults reported yesterday including a battery fault (777/1), power changeover fault (777/1), various CCTV faults, a couple of RFID (TM dispatch) card faults, and a power/brake controller fault.
 

M28361M

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There was a failure this morning at Sandhills which caused severe disruption on the Northern line for an hour or so.

Not sure which train was involved, but from RTT it looks like the 1019 from Ormskirk was terminated at Sandhills and nothing went through Southbound after that until about 1140.
 

Sam 76

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Has there been any recent performance figures for the 777s. Has the faults per mile rate improved say from 6 months ago ?
 

baldyman26

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If recent days are anything to go on... Nope. The battery trains have been playing games as to which one can break more in 1 day
 

Elecman

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Doesn’t sound too hopeful for a mass rollout of battery trains anywhere in the near future then.
That depends if the failures are on the battery system itself or more general faults with doors/dispatch system/ or other non battery traction systems
 

WirralLine

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That depends if the failures are on the battery system itself or more general faults with doors/dispatch system/ or other non battery traction systems
Battery faults and power changeover faults (switching from 3rd rail to battery or vice versa) seems to be a regular problem. Nothing new.
 

karlbbb

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777010 and 777026 seem to have perma-joined for the past few weeks. Is it a case of “well we have one working 8-car set, let’s not break it”?
 

nigelsporne

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Since the introduction of the new Timetable PTS seems to have around 36 units in use on a daily basis. However the introduction of new units appears to have dried up and 4 units appear not even to be on Merseyside. Is there a move to get some further units into service or are they concentrating on getting those that are to an acceptable standard?
 

Bikeman78

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Battery faults and power changeover faults (switching from 3rd rail to battery or vice versa) seems to be a regular problem. Nothing new.
What is causing the changeover faults? Should be no different to changing from third rail to overhead.
 

Peter Sarf

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What is causing the changeover faults? Should be no different to changing from third rail to overhead.
This reminds me of the 769s - is the switch over from 25kV AC to diesel and/or reverse fraught and avoided ?.
Perhaps it is a whole load of "changes" to the parameters that the 777 software cannot cope with ?.
Does a re-boot after a mode change seem to be the (well a temporary) solution ?.
 

Bikeman78

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This reminds me of the 769s - is the switch over from 25kV AC to diesel and/or reverse fraught and avoided ?.
Perhaps it is a whole load of "changes" to the parameters that the 777 software cannot cope with ?.
Does a re-boot after a mode change seem to be the (well a temporary) solution ?.
The 769 changeover at Bolton takes a few seconds. Same for the 313s at Drayton Park. I assume the 717s are similar. It would be interesting to compare miles per failure between the two types of 777.
 

Bikeman78

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I've heard of issues with shoes refusing to lower and things like that, but don't know much more about them in all honesty!
Well that is an unnecessary complication straight away. Why do the shoes need to move? The 313s ran all the way to Royston with fixed shoes.
 

WirralLine

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The shoes raise/lower on standard 777/0s too, I seem to recall the incident a while back where one came to a stand blocking the Warrington line between Hunts Cross and Parkway for 6+ hours. The incident itself was apparently an emergency brake application due to the driver missing the vigilance reset in time, but the shoes raised and then wouldnt re-lower.

I presume them raising out of the way is something to do with clearance when out of area - when 50X are dragged anywhere off the network they remove the shoe gear and door steps completely for this reason. Makes sense on the 777/1s for the Headbolt extension where it was never 3rd rail but there have been a few instances of shoes raising on 777/0s and having issues getting them back down!
 

karlbbb

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2O03 has been stuck at Central for nearly 45 minutes now and is causing a few issues. Most mornings this is the perma-8-car set of 777010 and 777026, so I'm assuming it'll be that.
 

SeaKing

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777 021 has been attacked by the graffiti thugs, (just got on it now at Cressington on the 2S42).

I can smell the aerosol fumes from inside!
In 3 days this week on Merseyrail this is the only Unit I have not seen, so hopefully being cleaned.
 

60159

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In 3 days this week on Merseyrail this is the only Unit I have not seen, so hopefully being cleaned.
Are any not yet in service other than the 4 to reach Merseyrail?
Any idea of when the 3 will arrive from Warrington?
 

Bikeman78

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The shoes raise/lower on standard 777/0s too, I seem to recall the incident a while back where one came to a stand blocking the Warrington line between Hunts Cross and Parkway for 6+ hours. The incident itself was apparently an emergency brake application due to the driver missing the vigilance reset in time, but the shoes raised and then wouldnt re-lower.

I presume them raising out of the way is something to do with clearance when out of area - when 50X are dragged anywhere off the network they remove the shoe gear and door steps completely for this reason. Makes sense on the 777/1s for the Headbolt extension where it was never 3rd rail but there have been a few instances of shoes raising on 777/0s and having issues getting them back down!
I am not convinced. Taking off the shoes once every few years to tow the units for overhaul is no big deal. Likewise, shoe clearing the mile of track to Headbolt Lane is simple. Do the shoes raise on the 700s and 717s?
 

St. Paddy

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I am not convinced. Taking off the shoes once every few years to tow the units for overhaul is no big deal. Likewise, shoe clearing the mile of track to Headbolt Lane is simple. Do the shoes raise on the 700s and 717s?
700s no but they lost a lot of shoes during GN testing. 717s yes as do 387s. 700s were dft specified so likely a cost saving matter.
 

Bikeman78

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700s no but they lost a lot of shoes during GN testing. 717s yes as do 387s. 700s were dft specified so likely a cost saving matter.
Interesting. That means Peterborough and King's Lynn have had to be shoe cleared. On the other hand, I have not read about any problems with the 717s which switch voltage several times a day.
 
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