Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[jamesst]

I'm not sure it's "another 5 seconds added at every stop". Most people are stood with their hand hovering near the button and are pressing it within a second of the door unlock alarm sounding. I agree it's a bit of a daft regression, though.

I'm not fully convinced on the longevity of the units either. Just yesterday I saw 777009 running with a segment of its tail lights not functioning, and travelled on 777023 which sounded like the doors no longer seal properly with the amount of outside noise it lets in. I also think the climate control system on most trains has too-high a set point as trains are starting to feel a little stuffy with no air movement, let alone air conditioning to dry the air. I've heard a few guards complain to other members of the public they can't change it but that seems...wrong? Surely there's no way the driver or guard has no control over the temperature setting via an interface?

Traincrew have no control over the coach temperature aside from being able to switch it on or off

 

[Jamesrob637]

Another 777 has only made it one stop from Southport this morning towards Liverpool

The saga continues

 

[karlbbb]

Traincrew have no control over the coach temperature aside from being able to switch it on or off

That seems like a huge oversight. Hopefully, then, someone can pass on to Merseyrail that the set temperature is too high and needs to be dropped slightly. Should be something like 20ºC in the summer and 18ºC in the winter.

 

[TheSel]

Traincrew have no control over the coach temperature aside from being able to switch it on or off

I'm a bit confused by this.

Each coach has a temperature whether this switch is "on" or "off"? What difference, exactly, does this switch make, please?

 

[WirralLine]

I'm a bit confused by this.

Each coach has a temperature whether this switch is "on" or "off"? What difference, exactly, does this switch make, please?

He means train crew can't adjust the temperature of the air conditioning system. The only control they have over the system is the ability to switch it either on or off.

 

[TheSel]

He means train crew can't adjust the temperature of the air conditioning system. The only control they have over the system is the ability to switch it either on or off.

Ah - understood. Thanks. "All or Nothing" springs to mind.

 

[Vinnym]

Can confirm you can no longer pre arm the doors on the 777s. That’s another 5 seconds added at every stop.

Just travelled on 11.16 Liverpool Central to Ormskirk, I was able to pre arm the door to alight at Old Roan.
Heard new announcement this morning warning passengers to be careful moving through the train as the floors were uneven.

 

[Northsky]

If the crew don't have access to setting the temperature, who does?

Reminds me of my old employer where the temp was set by a call centre in India. Asking for it to he raised/lowered would mean being on hold for 20 mins and then being asked 1,000,000 questions before the temperature setting was changed.

 

[Peter Sarf]

If the crew don't have access to setting the temperature, who does?

Reminds me of my old employer where the temp was set by a call centre in India. Asking for it to he raised/lowered would mean being on hold for 20 mins and then being asked 1,000,000 questions before the temperature setting was changed.

Temperature probably not made too easy to adjust as everyone wants it a different temperature in my experience so it becomes a time consuming saga. Leaves the crew on the 777 to be able to get on with other things more relevant to the "service"..

 

[hacman]

Temperature probably not made too easy to adjust as everyone wants it a different temperature in my experience so it becomes a time consuming saga. Leaves the crew on the 777 to be able to get on with other things more relevant to the "service"..

One of the big reasons for this sort of thing is that people often don't understand how such systems work, so when it's too warm they put the temperature setting right down, which the system then works to meet, and then they find its too cold, so they put it right back up, and the system then works in the opposite direction.

The result of this is that the system ends up "cycling", using a tonne of energy and putting a heavy load on the hardware, all to produce a result which isn't comfortable anyway.

What would have made more sense, however, is if the system was able to compare against the outside temperature, so that it works to a range of maybe 17-21ºC, aiming for the low end when it's cold outside and the high end when it's warm.

 

[DJH1971]

Any word on what's happening with the very last 777 due for delivery?

 

[jamesst]

I'm a bit confused by this.

Each coach has a temperature whether this switch is "on" or "off"? What difference, exactly, does this switch make, please?

So the driver has a Hvac (heating, ventilation, air con) button for the passenger areas and a separate one for the cabs.
The passenger one literally turns it on/off for all 4 coaches and the on board systems take care of the rest ie temperature etc.
Its down to Stadler technicians to make any adjustments to it.

 

[Northerngirl]

Is it really that hard to get guards to use a thermostat dial, everything on these trains seem to far more of a faf than it should be

 

[Skie]

Stadler should be able to adjust the temperatures remotely though, so as long as someone informs control or maintenance it can be changed. Buf if they're set right anyway, it shouldnt be stuffy or too hot/cold, so it's probably just been turned off. Possibly accidentally.

 

[Peter Sarf]

One of the big reasons for this sort of thing is that people often don't understand how such systems work, so when it's too warm they put the temperature setting right down, which the system then works to meet, and then they find its too cold, so they put it right back up, and the system then works in the opposite direction.

The result of this is that the system ends up "cycling", using a tonne of energy and putting a heavy load on the hardware, all to produce a result which isn't comfortable anyway.

What would have made more sense, however, is if the system was able to compare against the outside temperature, so that it works to a range of maybe 17-21ºC, aiming for the low end when it's cold outside and the high end when it's warm.

I agree with what you say. Most of my family whack the central heating thermostat up to maximum when they are cold then later resort to turning the heating off when it gets too hot. They treat it like a controller on a normal cooker hob rather than like an oven thermostat - they cannot see what I mean but then most of them don't use and oven (probably fortunate really). But I am aware they all notice it is too hot or too cold at different times so I cannot mediate with an agreed temperature.

The best we can hope for in shared spaces like trains is a temperature that is not excessively hot (or cold). Humidity is easier as I don't really think people notice if the air is too dry - even though that can damage the sinuses.

Stadler should be able to adjust the temperatures remotely though, so as long as someone informs control or maintenance it can be changed. Buf if they're set right anyway, it shouldnt be stuffy or too hot/cold, so it's probably just been turned off. Possibly accidentally.

There is no one right temperature for everyone but I found in my office years ago that if I was lucky then I could get a temperature that was near enough to avoid too many complaints about it being too hot or too cold. Just have to hope the setting for a 777 are not excessively unpopular.

On the subject on stuffy. I remember one colleague who would come back from lunch and open windows much to the distress of those around him. He would close them eventually but we all had to endure for the time it took him to cool down his heart rate after his excersise outside. So for the 777s people who have walked or rushed for the train will feel it is warmer in the 777 than those who came by car or bus or had been on the platform for a while.

So HVAC (Heating, Ventilation and Airconditioning) can be just like the dreaded subject of seats. All down to taste except for exceptionally bad cases.

 

[Mordac]

If the crew don't have access to setting the temperature, who does?

Reminds me of my old employer where the temp was set by a call centre in India. Asking for it to he raised/lowered would mean being on hold for 20 mins and then being asked 1,000,000 questions before the temperature setting was changed.

I didn't think it could be worse than when I worked in the Northern Ireland Civil Service. We had a shiny new building in South Belfast, but the temperature was still set from Stormont... That one tops this though.

 

[nigelsporne]

Is the driver's cab on a separate system compared to the rest of the train? Just an idle thought.

 

[185]

Is it really that hard to get guards to use a thermostat dial, everything on these trains seem to far more of a faf than it should be

Fairly sure there is no thermostat dial. Looking at the TMS system they are using, this is solely controlled from the drivers desk, nowhere else - I'm fairly sure drivers don't even ordinarily have access to this - turning HVAC off usually also turns off the fire system so that would be a failed train. Should've put emergency hopper windows on these, like 158s.

 

[jamesst]

Is the driver's cab on a separate system compared to the rest of the train? Just an idle thought.

Yep

 

[KevinTurvey]

I saw a poster today in passing which I hadn't noticed before - Ormskirk line forthcoming temporary cancellations for new trains ???

What is all this about I wonder - I thought training was complete.

 

[childwallblues]

Any word on what's happening with the very last 777 due for delivery?

There are two deliveries outstanding. 777035 is still in Europe whist 777053 is at Long Marston.

 

[Sam 76]

I saw a poster today in passing which I hadn't noticed before - Ormskirk line forthcoming temporary cancellations for new trains ???

What is all this about I wonder - I thought training was complete.

I believe it is related to 8 car training for Southport and Ormskirk line

 

[childwallblues]

I believe it is related to 8 car training for Southport and Ormskirk line

Well that makes sense. They can then dispose of the last 507s.

 

[irish_rail]

In which case can we expect the final 50x runs in the next week or so?

 

[Sam 76]

In which case can we expect the final 50x runs in the next week or so?

Not for a while yet don’t worry there is currently no 8 car trains running. It will be a couple of months before that sad day I imagine

 

[Liverpool 507]

Long time lurker so thought I would weigh in my thoughts/observations.

I agree with much of the comments regarding design. The seats are poor but OK for short journeys. The sliding steps are great for access but on a daily basis they're getting stuck either fully in, half out, or fully out. Only a couple of weeks ago a Train Manager half fell down the gap and injured their leg as the step had only deployed half way.

The PIS system is still riddled with faults. I was on one yesterday where the internal "live maps" and CCTV screens had frozen some 3 hours earlier, you still often see them displaying the wrong information on the destination boards. Multiple dispatch CCTV faults still ongoing on a daily basis.

A large number of them still can't work together even for rescue purposes - how a company can design a fleet of trains and have them running separate software which isn't compatible is bizzare. Transport for Wales 197s have had multiple software updates since new which are rolled out across the whole fleet within a couple of weeks - and are backwards compatible meaning new software units can work fine with non updated ones. It says a lot when even CAF are more capable on that front!

A comment above regarding only having 1 door/vestibule in the driving cars - this is I believe due to the trains being too long for various platforms when working as 8 car formation. This means the stop marker can be off the platform, but the doors will be platformed and no need for SDO/ASDO or similar. Ordering trains specifically designed for the network which don't fit at the stations on said network is questionable in itself - however I believe ordering 4 car units (4 shorter cars making a similar length to 3 longer cars) is to reduce wheelset wear around the loop.

Various units have different announcements being played, with a lot of inconsistencies between the units, and a fair few having PIS faults in general. The state of the floor cleanliness on some of them are reasonably poor as well.

Not for a while yet don’t worry there is currently no 8 car trains running. It will be a couple of months before that sad day I imagine

September has been mentioned.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jun 2024 ==

Which day/service did 777045 enter public service?

 

[paddyb6]

Which day/service did 777045 enter public service?

Unsure, but I travelled on it for the first time on Chester yesterday evening (20:43 from Lime St)

there is currently no 8 car trains running

Had an 8 car set on Ormskirk yesterday evening (026+010)

 

[WirralLine]

On a 777 now heading to Chester. The LCD screens in the saloon (with the cctv views on) scroll across with the next station name when the approaching announcement plays.

So far I have noticed Birkenhead Central is spelt wrong (Cental) and Bebington is spelt wrong (Bebbington). Havnt noticed any others yet.

 

[Bikeman78]

On a 777 now heading to Chester. The LCD screens in the saloon (with the cctv views on) scroll across with the next station name when the approaching announcement plays.

So far I have noticed Birkenhead Central is spelt wrong (Cental) and Bebington is spelt wrong (Bebbington). Havnt noticed any others yet.

Have these errors existed since they started? Seems incredible that they would go unnoticed for so long.

 

[karlbbb]

777012 seems to be another unit with the door pre-call now disabled.